Another new Brexit thread

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Rascal said:
That is an issue, it could be solved by greater federalisation, it wont be solved as it stands.
A single currency in itself is not a bad thing, the UK uses a single currency and it has huge regional disparities. A pound in Manchester goes further than a pound in London as obviously cost of living differs. Petrol is more expensive on the Isle of Harris than it is in Hereford for logistical reasons, but the currency retains the same nominal value.
Through federalisation the southern states debt would become the central authority debt just as Scottish debt becomes Westminster debt and so on. The fault is in the lack of federalisation not in the eurozone per se.
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A single currency, budget, foreign policy etc etc are the necessary pre-conditions for federalization not its product.
 
mancity2012_eamo said:
I’m not sure that’s exactly how I’d describe how events happened and that’s not how the article you posted described it either. However it’s a fair point, but as Bob has argued with you, that is how the EU works. I heard one commentator over here describe the UK negotiating team of being arrogant in thinking that they were dealing with Little Ireland. That is the truth or the strength of dealing with a whole economic bloc. I myself have always seen the GFA and Brexit as two totally separate entities and you got the cart before the horse. This, I believe is what the Irish government tried to explain. You are probably right that the leaving of the EU is an existential argument for a lot in the UK, but all the more, it should make you realise that just because one takes precedent over the other for you, it doesn’t make it so for us. The GFA came first and there was a whole heap of compromises in there from all involved to make it work. We see things differently. The only solice I take from this is that it would seem that apart from the DUP, the majority on this island including your fellow UK citizens, do not share your views.
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I do not share your solace if that is indeed the case and I suspect many more on island the Ireland will share my views if a massively damaging No Deal is the end result of this dishonest chicanery.
 
blueinsa said:
Fuck all to do with Brexit and everything to do with them being fervent nationalists.

Quite amazing how that fact is ignored by those who do nothing but go on about nationalism on these threads?
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It was everything to do with brexit and I had numerous leaflets (which I have posted before) put through my door from leave.Eu which stated 60 million Turks on their way to Britain as well as those outlining routes from Syria and Iraq through Turkey and stating that we would be allowing terrorists into the UK once Turkey gained membership...






You probably don't even know what Leave Eu. were up to ....
 
blueinsa said:
Fuck all to do with Brexit and everything to do with them being fervent nationalists.

Quite amazing how that fact is ignored by those who do nothing but go on about nationalism on these threads?
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Or maybe, just maybe, it's not a binary issue and brexit plays a part in it?
 
George Hannah said:
A single currency, budget, foreign policy etc etc are the necessary pre-conditions for federalization not its product.
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And as I support total federalisation then its a must. As it is not a must at the moment is the reason for its instability. The UK could have helped with stability but chose not to for political reasons which was a mistake. The EU should have said, join or go at that point.
 
Vic said:
Do you actually have a solution that does not mean breaking an international peace treaty, or is that the tough decision you mean?
As in "This solution puts peace in Ireland/NI at risk. Tough."
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The clock is ticking intones M. Barnier but his much expressed burning desire to achieve a deal was not sufficiently inflamed for the EU side to turn up for detailed talks with the waiting UK reps over the week-end.
 
Vic said:
Do you actually have a solution that does not mean breaking an international peace treaty, or is that the tough decision you mean?

As in "This solution puts peace in Ireland/NI at risk. Tough."
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I have already set it out a few times - pay attention

I note that you could not really dispute the logic of the positions I set out

There are several good reasons for that
 
Rascal said:
And as I support total federalisation then its a must. As it is not a must at the moment is the reason for its instability. The UK could have helped with stability but chose not to for political reasons which was a mistake. The EU should have said, join or go at that point.
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Our long term rejection along with the others is because the EU is a capitalist club and it's not in the economic or political interests of the rich states outside the eurozone to join it and thereby impoverish themselves supporting the feckless poor ones.
 
George Hannah said:
I do not share your solace if that is indeed the case and I suspect many more on island the Ireland will share my views if a massively damaging No Deal is the end result of this dishonest chicanery.
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I take no solace in the notion of no deal. Only the belief that the majority on this island will know who exactly has been dishonest and who exactly has acted in their interests, regardless of what side of the normal political divides they come from.
 
blueinsa said:
Fuck all to do with Brexit and everything to do with them being fervent nationalists.

Quite amazing how that fact is ignored by those who do nothing but go on about nationalism on these threads?
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Bollocks.
Scottish nationalism was put back in its box for a generation in 2014 when a 55% majority voted for the union with a key issue being continued membership of the EU.
The EU referendum in 2016 brought it right out of its box again as a result of them being forced to leave the EU against the will of the majority.
It really isn’t rocket science and to make out that the current nationalist campaign is nothing to do with Brexit is delusional.
 
FlemishDuck said:
DEAL with it? It's not nice to start to whine when negotiations don't go youre way, Europe is only protecting its own interrests as much as Britain would protect it's own.



Existential risk? Ironicly beyond some impression of the isle of Britain sinking into the north sea for some completly inexplicable reason the only real practicle example of an existential threat to the UK looks like Scotlands increased willingness to break free from the Union because of the way the UK is leaving the Eu
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I do not expect to see consideration of points by you that suggest there is any difficulties for the EU

You have not shown any capability to do that

Your mypoia is demonstrated by your seeming lack of understanding of the Scotland position
 
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mancity2012_eamo said:
I take no solace in the notion of no deal. Only the belief that the majority on this island will know who exactly has been dishonest and who exactly has acted in their interests, regardless of what side of the normal political divides they come from.
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I suspect our conclusions will differ considerably in that event - and on the usual historical lines. Let's just hope that both sides rise above their traditional differences and find the least damaging solution for all parties.
 
west didsblue said:
Bollocks.
Scottish nationalism was put back in its box for a generation in 2014 when a 55% majority voted for the union with a key issue being continued membership of the EU.
The EU referendum in 2016 brought it right out of its box again as a result of them being forced to leave the EU against the will of the majority.
It really isn’t rocket science and to make out that the current nationalist campaign is nothing to do with Brexit is delusional.
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The only people I know that have changed their minds from the last referendum, are people that voted no last time and are considering voting yes this time, purely and 100% for the reason you say EU membership. If there was no Brexit another referendum wouldn't even be a question.
 
fully expected this thread to be knee-deep in brexit jizz following their landslide victory in the infallible world of "polls". Barely a sneer, just the usual "you're all too thick to see the evil of remaining" and such like, leavened a little by the " rich countries like eastern europeans and Turkey are not fooled", good one. Why the sulky, snide disdain that is the signature tune of the brexit lodge members? Victory in a GE is the holy grail of the alt-right surely, rubber-stamping the singapore ification (?) of england that underpins the entire brexit movement (bowel ?) paymasters, daily hate-mailers and the anti-corbyns... maybe still smarting over the last ge and the eu elections. Meanwhile the dipper-pool brexit parallels converge, illegal computer fraud, relentless bias by the msm , campaigns notable for the lies outnumbering facts, and the banner of victim-hood being waved by both armies of zealots. "Brexit La " " Dippers Uber Alles" The poster of the trashed City bus with "This is Anfield" next to the " €350m for the NHS " ?
 
George Hannah said:
Not amusing at all, it's the principal political and economic fault line for the whole EU project. The defining fact that many of the richest countries in Europe have chosen to remain outside the eurozone (or EU completely) means the fundamental precondition for a future federal superstate has failed. Not just the UK, representing on its own 14% of the EEA wealth, but also Denmark, Sweden, Norway and Switzerland + all 6 East European member states and Turkey. The founding core cannot even support the present expansion of the currency to the debtor southern states and Italy will soon follow Greece in staging open revolt as its economy is sacrificed in favour of the dominant French and German interests.
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With respect - do you expect some of the Remainers to be able to understand those points?
 
mcfc1632 said:
I have already set it out a few times - pay attention

I note that you could not really dispute the logic of the positions I set out

There are several good reasons for that
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I must have missed it in all the insults and condescension.
 
mcfc1632 said:
With respect - do you expect some of the Remainers to be able to understand those points?
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And he spake many things unto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow;
And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:
Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:
And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.
And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them:
But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.
Well it is the Sabbath ;)
 
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