Another new Brexit thread

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BobKowalski said:
We’re not Singapore mate. As for the ‘failing cartel’ well what ever helps you sleep at night. No arguing with blind faith.
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b2wIWdU.jpg

We concur yet again, just a sheet of bronco eh?
 
BobKowalski said:
We’re not Singapore mate. As for the ‘failing cartel’ well what ever helps you sleep at night. No arguing with blind faith.
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more like whistling in the dark, fingers crossed, tea leaves consulted, candles lit, chicken entrails scoured, feet stamped and remainers soundly cursed . Not easy this martyrdom lark. This tory government is an actual failing cartel of shysters and liars fronted by the worst example of their kind in history.
 
mcfc1632 said:
Ok - you are not bright enough to even understand something so basic as I posted. So to put an end to your embarrassment.

1. I have repeatedly said that we will not see movement unless and until they are faced with the prospect of a viable walk-away option and the political will to use it. I am absolutely correct in that opinion and I have been entirely consistent.

2. I have indeed expressed disgust and frustration that the Remainers/sycophants at Westminster have acted for in excess of 3 years to undermine the UK's negotiating position and, in particular, ensure that the EU never has to face the prospect of a viable walk-away option and the political will to use it. I am absolutely correct in that opinion and I have been entirely consistent.

3. I have recently commented that - on this thread - there has been a lot of evidence that the negotiating strength of a no-deal prospect has been proven to be true. This is an entirely different point to 1 or 2 above - and obvious if you had the wit to understand it, but you clearly are either too dim to discern that or just too eager to jump in and throw insults. The evidence has been abundant with Remainers (not you) suddenly having a 'road to Damascus' moment and, as the threat of a no-deal started to take on a feeling of momentum, started expressing all sorts of comprises that they were willing to make.

All these suggestions of compromise where previously there have, in the main, only been determination that Brexit should be scrapped. This is the demonstration of what happens when the threat of a no-deal outcome has to be faced up to. So, I am absolutely correct in that opinion and I have been entirely consistent.

You are just too bombastic and limited in comprehension to understand this and - having confused yourself in your need to rush to insult those that you are incapable of debating with - made yourself look pretty childish.

Anyway, I will leave it there - we have been asked not to get tied up in personal arguments and I can see that you are determined to do that. So get on with arguing with yourself - you have at least an even money chance of having some of your points accepted.
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That was basically, you, just talking about yourself & nothing to do with any of my points.

You are Boris Johnson.
 
George Hannah said:
Singapore on Thames? Seriously though, it doesn't work that way. The EU is a failing cartel and will probably collapse very soon without our 14% to balance the books. The UK's departure is an existential threat, which is why it's not going to happen. (IMO)
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It is nice see that others do understand that the EU is on a trajectory to failure - we will be affected anyway but if we are clear of its controls we can better manage the recovery.

Hard work being a missionary - and not much gratitude
 
I’ve just watched an American political programme from 1997, on the UK election of the time and the prediction of Blair gaining a majority.

Christopher Hitchens was on the show and described the Tory Party of having a blame culture against the foreigner, not necessarily immigrants but them too, but the EU. He said there’s a part of their party with horrendous views towards our European neighbours and they blame them for their shortcomings.

He also said Major deserves to lose to Blair “next week”, because he pandered to these people.

This has never been a problem for the British People generally, it’s always and still is a Tory problem, forced upon us.
 
BlueHammer85 said:
Where does he mention it’s guaranteed?

Just highlights some members are struggling with their economy and the eurozone is weak at the moment.
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He doesn't, I made it up - he thinks the EU will thrive and dominate the planet after a few temporary difficulties caused by the 98% of its population that isn't within its borders.
 
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Oh, by the way

mcfc1632 said:
Ok - you are not bright enough to even understand something so basic as I posted. So to put an end to your embarrassment.


if you had the wit to understand it, but you clearly are either too dim to discern that or just too eager to jump in and throw insults.

You are just too bombastic and limited in comprehension to understand this
.
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Boris Johnson: 'I think I've been the model of restraint'
 
Lots of juicy bits in tomorrow’s papers.

Telegraph: Johnson to sabotage the EU from within. (Spoiler. He won’t. It's drivel).

S. Times: More revelations about Arcuri who the ST describe now as Johnson’s ‘lover’. The quote marks doing a lot of work there. Also Johnson defying Her Maj to sack him as he isn’t leaving No 10 no matter what.

Mail: AG Cox threatening to resign if Johnson doesn’t obey the law and send an extension letter.

Think we can agree it’s all going to plan.
 
George Hannah said:
I'm not sure duplicity is the word either. The conduct of the UK government and parliament over Brexit is virtually indefensible but how do you describe a situation where one sovereign state uses a trading group as its proxy in negotiations to ensure the provisions of a vital peace treaty with another sovereign state are met? The EU's proper interest is confined solely to the integrity of its single market and that, together with any issues concerning RoI's economic advantage, is of a different and subordinate order to those of security and identity. For your country to abdicate its international obligations and pass them over to an undemocratic cartel for use as a bargaining chip in a future trade deal is totally unacceptable and the cynical exploitation of these political tensions by the EU for its own commercial benefit is equally inexcusable.
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I’m not sure that’s exactly how I’d describe how events happened and that’s not how the article you posted described it either. However it’s a fair point, but as Bob has argued with you, that is how the EU works.

I heard one commentator over here describe the UK negotiating team of being arrogant in thinking that they were dealing with Little Ireland.
That is the truth or the strength of dealing with a whole economic bloc.

I myself have always seen the GFA and Brexit as two totally separate entities and you got the cart before the horse.

This, I believe is what the Irish government tried to explain.

You are probably right that the leaving of the EU is an existential argument for a lot in the UK, but all the more, it should make you realise that just because one takes precedent over the other for you, it doesn’t make it so for us.

The GFA came first and there was a whole heap of compromises in there from all involved to make it work.

We see things differently.
The only solice I take from this is that it would seem that apart from the DUP, the majority on this island including your fellow UK citizens, do not share your views.
 
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George Hannah said:
Guaranteed according to the Guardian Economics editor
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The penny should drop for anyone reading that:

  • Why the EU are desperate not to lose the UK - there have even been posts on here suggesting that the EU might get rid of us as they are fed up with the farce - no chance (unfortunately)
  • That the disintegration of the Eurozone is a matter of when not if - and the answer for the like of Macron is? More EU - more integration
  • That the time will quickly come when it is clear that all this 'confidence' that we hear about vetoes and opt-outs is simply yesterday's comfort blanket and a thing of the past
There is sooooo much widespread denial
 
mancity2012_eamo said:
I’m not sure that’s exactly how I’d describe how events happened and that’s not how the article you posted described it either. However it’s a fair point, but as Bob has argued with you, that is how the EU works.

I heard one commentator over here describe the UK negotiating team of being arrogant in thinking that they were dealing with Little Ireland.
That is the truth or the strength of dealing with a whole economic bloc.

I myself have always seen the GFA and Brexit as two totally separate entities and you got the cart before the horse.

This, I believe is what the Irish government tried to explain.

You are probably right that the leaving of the EU is an existential argument for a lot in the UK, but all the more, it should make you realise that just because one takes precedent over the other for you, it doesn’t make it so for us.

The GFA came first and there was a whole heap of compromises in there from all involved to make it work.

We see things differently.
The only solice I take from this is that it would seem that apart from the DUP, the majority on this island including your fellow UK citizens, do not share your views.
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I think that the way things have been handled by the incompetent May and Robbins has allowed a number of things to conflate and become confused. I suggest:
  • That leaving the EU is indeed an existential risk for the UK - we need to break-free from the drowning project or we will inevitably be sucked down with it.
  • That the views on the island of Ireland re the GFA having primacy are understandable and of course any need to change that situation unwelcomed - especially if at the same time Ireland is to suffer major economic difficulties
  • That the UK leaving the EU is less an existential risk for the EU - that is doomed to failure anyway and it is just a matter of time - but should the UK be successful in leaving the EU that will hasten the failure of the EU.
  • So that is why the GFA has been so helpful to the EU as the subject everyone can be consumed by and why the EU has indeed been happy to use it has a weapon.
  • Should the UK actually be able to 'genuinely' leave the EU - as opposed to some model that sees some abdication to the EU of control over its key domestic policies as would be the case under the May WA - then the EU ideologues will likely 'want to take action' to ensure that the damage to the UK is clear as a lesson to all other countires that leaving the project is not worth the risk and the hope that we return.
  • The EU ideologues will not be able/allowed to pursue this course of action as Germany and other countries cannot endure the impact of falling earlier into a sustained recession that is on the horizon anyway. For the same reasons their policies and approach will change if genuinely faced with a No-Deal Brexit.
  • And for this reason I believe Ireland's stance would change and fall in line with the EU's and accommodations made to avoid a No-Deal - of course with it all being dressed up as a major victory.
Meanwhile the EU and Ireland will continue to play the same cards and look to their sycophants to further undermine the UK so they do not have to face the tough decisions.
 
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mcfc1632 said:
I think that the way things have been handled by the incompetent May and Robbins has allowed a number of things to conflate and become confused. I suggest:
  • That leaving the EU is indeed an existential risk for the UK - we need to break-free from the drowning project or we will inevitably be sucked down with it.
  • That the views on the island of Ireland re the GFA having primacy are understandable and of course any need to change that situation unwelcomed - especially if at the same time Ireland is to suffer major economic difficulties
  • That the UK leaving the EU is less an existential risk for the EU - that is doomed to failure anyway and it is just a matter of time - but should the UK be successful in leaving the EU that will hasten the failure of the EU.
  • So that is why the GFA has been so helpful to the EU as the subject everyone can be consumed by and why the EU has indeed be happy to use it has a weapon.
  • Should the UK actually be able to 'genuinely' leave the EU - as opposed to some model that sees some abdication to the EU of control over its key domestic policies as would be the case under the May WA - then the EU ideologues will likely 'want to take action' to ensure that the damage to the UK is clear as a lesson to all other countires that leaving the project is not worth the risk and the hope that we return.
  • The EU ideologues will not be able/allowed to pursue this course of action as Germany and other countries cannot endure the impact of falling earlier into a sustained recession that is on the horizon anyway. For the same reasons their policies and approach will change if genuinely faced with a No-Deal Brexit.
  • And for this reason I believe Ireland's stance would change and fall in line with the EU's and accommodations made to avoid a No-Deal - of course with it all being dressed up as a major victory.
Meanwhile the EU and Ireland will continue to play the same cards and look to their sycophants to further undermine the UK so they do not have to face the tough decisions.
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Do you actually have a solution that does not mean breaking an international peace treaty, or is that the tough decision you mean?

As in "This solution puts peace in Ireland/NI at risk. Tough."
 
mcfc1632 said:
Meanwhile the EU and Ireland will continue to play the same cards
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DEAL with it? It's not nice to start to whine when negotiations don't go youre way, Europe is only protecting its own interrests as much as Britain would protect it's own.

mcfc1632 said:
That leaving the EU is indeed an existential risk for the UK - we need to break-free from the drowning project or we will inevitably be sucked down with it.
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Existential risk? Ironicly beyond some impression of the isle of Britain sinking into the north sea for some completly inexplicable reason the only real practicle example of an existential threat to the UK looks like Scotlands increased willingness to break free from the Union because of the way the UK is leaving the Eu
 
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