Another new Brexit thread

  • Thread starter Thread starter Ric
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
So what does it have to do with immigration that both you and Ifwecouldjust... believed was a factor in swaying my decision to vote to leave?

Because it was things like this (albeit a relatively insignificant one but the bigger picture was soon made clear to us) that did.
It all had to do with Cameron trying to look after his buddies and dog whistling to try to put pressure on the EU. It backfired on him badly.
 
It obviously pains you so much to admit we helped bail you out?

It was no biggie, honest.

I’ve little doubt we will be there for you the next time as well.

Brexit doesn’t have to mean the end of our friendship and cooperation ;-)
I'm just telling you the truth mate. We were grateful for it as it benefited us but your reasons were far from altruistic and were in sterling's interests, not the euros.
 
I know it’s warm today and it’s been glorious a good end to a lovely day would be lancs smashing the yorkies this evening. However I think the swingometer has shifted and there are a few a bit annoyed on here

We now have an optimistic determined pm determined to deliver brexit

He has assembled a brexit cabinet who will support that aim

He has absolutely smashed Corbyn today at the despatch box

Corbyn and labour have formally come out as remain and they will split their vote with the Lib Dem’s in a GE.

Hardened labour leave voters will jump ship to Boris or bp.

His noises about no deal seem stronger and so hopefully the eu will take it seriously this time

There seems to be some noises around solutions to Ireland

I am for a long time quietly confident it could happen
Like me - you are hearing the sounds and anxiety of the proper rattled.
 
I'm just telling you the truth mate. We were grateful for it as it benefited us but your reasons were far from altruistic and were in sterling's interests, not the euros.

So back to the start when you said we had never done anything for the Euro...........

Go on, you can do it, it’s easy....
 
That's the tax evasion one. He wanted to keep the Tories access to their offshore havens and wanted an out from the new legislation. He wasn't getting it. Nothing could ever have been ' forced' on the UK without their will anyway so most of it is nonsense.
Given Ireland's tax haven/evasion reward as the sixth wealthiest country on earth it's a bit rich to kick others for their attempts to follow that lucrative if disreputable path.
 
It all had to do with Cameron trying to look after his buddies and dog whistling to try to put pressure on the EU. It backfired on him badly.
So if a person says that the EU's response to the reforms were what caused them to change their position on supporting the EU...
 
Given Ireland's tax haven/evasion reward as the sixth wealthiest country on earth it's a bit rich to kick others for their attempts to follow that lucrative if disreputable path.
Comparing Ireland to the likes of the Isle of Man and Cayman Islands is disingenuous.
 
So if a person says that the EU's response to the reforms were what caused them to change their position on supporting the EU...
You mean the response of "why don't you use the powers already available to you that are capable of doing exactly what you want"?
 
I assume that as things currently stand the leave on 31 Oct is the default setting unless new legislation is passed? I don't claim to be an expert by any means on parliamentary process, but I very much doubt there is time for this or much else for that matter when one factors in the Westminster and EU summer recess.
I understand why the vote of Parliament should be considered more valid than the wish of the (unelected) PM, but by an extension of the same logic the decision of the 2016 referendum would of course take precedence over a few hundred souls in parliament. It seems Remainers are only happy to devolve power to the level at which their view wins.
The referendum result is still important for many MPs who think Brexit is crap but the result should be respected (maybe fewer If they watch The Great Hack). But for more MPs that advisory referendum would not take precedence over saving the country from self-harm.

It looks like we would not be in the position last March of getting an extension at two days notice. Had May not agreed to an extension, Parliament would have had a day to decide whether to vote to stop a No Deal exit. This time there would likely be much more time to decide between No Deal and No Brexit, but legislation can be passed in one day.

My contention is that legislation is not necessary. The default position is in the EU Withdrawal Act - currently we leave on 31st October as that is the current "exit day" - but, if Parliament simply votes to revoke Article 50, what constitutional right would the PM have to ignore that?

Parliament gave the PM the authority to invoke Article 50, but that does not mean it needs the authority of the PM to revoke it. That authority rests with Parliament (bearing in mind that the option to revoke was not thought to be an option at the time). So if Parliament votes to revoke article 50 and the EU accepts that (no matter what the outvoted PM says) then we don't leave and the "default position" in the Act (indeed the whole Act) is redundant as there is no "exit day". For tidiness, a one line bill repealing the Act could be passed but I don't see it as essential.
 
Last edited:
You mean the response of "why don't you use the powers already available to you that are capable of doing exactly what you want"?
Again, missing the point.

Just for a second, ignore flag waving, ignore Cameron and ignore "Rule Britannia" mindset.

I'm a citizen who lives ina country that belongs to the EU. I am concerned with the "more integration/European Defence Force which ALL members must contribute/more to the EU budget/EU superpower" style rhetoric of the time. I wanted to hear assurances that the EU would cease heading in this worrying direction. Regardless of UK vetoes, I was concerned about the EU still continuing with ever closer integration. The response was "well we are, but you can opt out of what we are doing"

Not what I wanted to hear and made me realise the UK isn't really "part" of this "EU" and this "EU" has very clearly stated it has different objectives, motivations and vision of the future for Europe and the EU that we in the UK have. Now, when asked, do I feebly go along with remaining a member, or do I voice my opinion to leave as it was clear the EU was not going to reform it's current plans?

Now after reading all that, tell me how you get to "Immigration" being a factor. Third time I've asked you now.
 
Precisely. So what did Cameron want in the reforms?

"An explicit recognition that the euro is not the only currency of the European Union, to ensure countries outside the eurozone are not materially disadvantaged. He also wanted safeguards that steps to further financial union cannot be imposed on non-eurozone members and the UK will not have to contribute to eurozone bailouts."

"Measures, the purpose of which is to further deepen the economic and monetary union, will be voluntary for member states whose currency is not the euro.
"Mutual respect between member states participating or not in the operation of the euro area will be ensured.
"Legal acts... [between eurozone countries] shall respect the internal market."

"But Mr Cameron ran into unexpectedly firm resistance from France on financial regulation. The French wanted to underline was that Britain would not win any "exceptions to the rules of the EU" - particularly in relation to regulation in the City - hence the addition of the "level playing field" line. Mr Cameron got his explicit recognition that the EU has more than one currency - but it does not go as far mandating "multiple currencies".

Now what about any of that says "immigration" to you?
Mr Cameron got his explicit recognition that the EU has more than one currency.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top