Another new Brexit thread

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aguerrrroooooooooooo said:
I'll believe it when I see it from the EUs side tbh mate.
Johnson's actions over the last month or so have eradicated any belief or trust in his words I have. If he's willing to Iie to the Queen why would he be truthful to you or me?
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Or Arlene.
Sell out NI and he may get a deal. Pretty much the same one that May negotiated minus a red line or two.
Whether it would get through parliament or not, I have no idea.
 
inbetween said:
The question really is if no deal was to be avoided at all costs then for what reason did MP's vote against May's deal?

Obviously two factions were at play, one which would reject all deals regardless in order to keep remain alive and the other just wanted the hardest leave possible.

Even Boris voted for the deal he is trying to renegotiate and Labour now want to renegotiate the deal only to then vote against it!!?

This whole process is doomed and it is because Parliament as a whole is unable or refuses to do what the people gave it a mandate to do.
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What was the mandate for though? If we go back and look at what is said then it certainly wasn't no deal. Pre referendum BoJo described the idea of not agreeing a deal as absurd. Here lies the problem - brexit only works when it is a vague concept, put the details on paper and it stinks.

George Hannah said:
Well worth pointing out the dangers of labouring under misapprehensions and your last sentence contains two very salient ones. Our dysfunction is designed by the EU solely for their benefit. Their interest is to keep us inside the cartel as a paying member and lucrative controlled market not dump us out.
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Lol. Do you realise that there is nothing stopping any member leaving within a matter of days if they have the collective political will. A50 provides up to 2 years, you don't have to take that long. The 2 years is just the guaranteed minimum period to get arrangements in place and settle outstanding amounts.

So how exactly are they designing our political incompetence? Did they vote in May or BoJo?
 
George Hannah said:
and they are seeking to ensure that our departure is as damaging to us as possible - we'll see if their attempt to turn the UK into their colony works - there are many on here cheering them on in their nefarious endeavours. If such are citizens of this country it is akin to celebrating self mutilation.
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Self mutilation?
You voted to chew your arm off and by God that's what you are going to do and won't be told otherwise.
 
aguerrrroooooooooooo said:
6355ba8bf9a3a34c17e6f059bc93dbde.jpg
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I wonder where that little piece of dysinformation first popped up ? The main colour is a clue.
 
George Hannah said:
The EU is the culprit, first and last. It seeks to become an undemocratic federal superstate. Its Lisbon Treaty provides for a solitary exit route for member states not wishing that outcome that can be and has been made deeply and unnecessarily damaging solely in order to discourage others.
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But if 'no-deal' is full of opportunity, with nothing to worry about and no danger to the British economy, why didn't we just leave?
Just maybe, BoJo and his mates have known all along what a shit-storm this will be and are just lining up the fall guys who will consist of; every European government, the Judiciary if today doesn't go as planned (and who would bet on him not wanting to lose) and anyone who had the temerity to vote remain or oppose the government view.
 
Gaudion M said:
What was the mandate for though? If we go back and look at what is said then it certainly wasn't no deal. Pre referendum BoJo described the idea of not agreeing a deal as absurd. Here lies the problem - brexit only works when it is a vague concept, put the details on paper and it stinks.

Lol. Do you realise that there is nothing stopping any member leaving within a matter of days if they have the collective political will. A50 provides up to 2 years, you don't have to take that long. The 2 years is just the guaranteed minimum period to get arrangements in place and settle outstanding amounts.

So how exactly are they designing our political incompetence? Did they vote in May or BoJo?
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May's mandate was to deliver Brexit "no deal is better than a bad deal".

Every single Tory MP was elected to deliver Brexit and over 400 MP's voted for no deal and to put the mechanism in place that gives it.

I'm not arguing for no deal anyway, I'm arguing for the common sense and compromise that should of taken place years ago but it's probably too late now.
 
mancity2012_eamo said:
Or Arlene.
Sell out NI and he may get a deal. Pretty much the same one that May negotiated minus a red line or two.
Whether it would get through parliament or not, I have no idea.
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This is the plan it seems - put something together that appeases the ERG but not the DUP and/or moderates who might have backed a deal. Chances of getting through with his -40ish majority = Nil. Chances the EU will back it = very slim bordering on Nil as ROI can block it.

This is just an exercise in building a narrative to go into an election. It is all about blame - either the EU or the HOC or both wil be blamed by BoJo for failing to deliver brexit. He then goes to the people demanding a majority.
 
The Light Was Yellow Sir said:
But if 'no-deal' is full of opportunity, with nothing to worry about and no danger to the British economy, why didn't we just leave?
Just maybe, BoJo and his mates have known all along what a shit-storm this will be and are just lining up the fall guys who will consist of; every European government, the Judiciary if today doesn't go as planned (and who would bet on him not wanting to lose) and anyone who had the temerity to vote remain or oppose the government view.
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Don't try and reason with him it's pointless.

Everything is the EUs fault and if we leave with a no deal the ensuing fallout will no doubt be their fault as well, because: (to coin a phrase from the daily mail) "They're getting nastier and nastier"
 
Gaudion M said:
Lol. Do you realise that there is nothing stopping any member leaving within a matter of days if they have the collective political will. A50 provides up to 2 years, you don't have to take that long. The 2 years is just the guaranteed minimum period to get arrangements in place and settle outstanding amounts. So how exactly are they designing our political incompetence? Did they vote in May or BoJo?
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"2 years is the mandatory A50 period, you are confusing the subsequent transitional stage
 
aguerrrroooooooooooo said:
Don't try and reason with him it's pointless.

Everything is the EUs fault and if we leave with a no deal the ensuing fallout will no doubt be their fault as well, because: (to coin a phrase from the daily mail) "They're getting nastier and nastier"
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Blaming the EU for being nasty about our exit rather ignores the fact that one of the main points to consider when deciding who to vote for was that there was no way the EU could ever offer us a better deal out than in because it betrays their members.

My vote was secured the minute that I saw the main protagonists for both camps, but this point was a pretty fucking obvious one for anyone with a brain bigger than a walnut.
 
The Light Was Yellow Sir said:
But if 'no-deal' is full of opportunity, with nothing to worry about and no danger to the British economy, why didn't we just leave?
Just maybe, BoJo and his mates have known all along what a shit-storm this will be and are just lining up the fall guys who will consist of; every European government, the Judiciary if today doesn't go as planned (and who would bet on him not wanting to lose) and anyone who had the temerity to vote remain or oppose the government view.
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If the ruling today is that BoJo did mislead the Queen and Illegally Porogue Parliament then an appropriate outcome would be be for Liz to call him in and demand that he not only resign as PM but from all forms of public office for the rest of his life. I'd love to see how the Daily Express/Mail covered it.
 
aguerrrroooooooooooo said:
Don't try and reason with him it's pointless.
Everything is the EUs fault and if we leave with a no deal the ensuing fallout will no doubt be their fault as well, because: (to coin a phrase from the daily mail) "They're getting nastier and nastier"
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it is indeed pointless if you are incapable of rational discission and resort to nonsense promoting cartoons.
 
Didsbury Dave said:
Blaming the EU for being nasty about our exit rather ignores the fact that one of the main points to consider when deciding who to vote for was that there was no way the EU could ever offer us a better deal out than in because it betrays their members.

My vote was secured the minute that I saw the main protagonists for both camps, but this point was a pretty fucking obvious one for anyone with a brain bigger than a walnut.
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Duncan was a remainer eh?
 
George Hannah said:
"2 years is the mandatory A50 period, you are confusing the subsequent transitional stage
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No - 2 years is how long the 'treaties' will apply while you agree a WA. You can agree to leave without a WA and then you are out that can take literally days. You would still subject to the rules as per the treaties unless you agree otherwise, no reason why the EU would hold you in if other terms are agreed. In any event after 2 years the treaties/rules fall away. So the EU have very little control over the process - unless you want a WA.
 
George Hannah said:
"2 years is the mandatory A50 period, you are confusing the subsequent transitional stage
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Wrong again. Becoming a bit of a habit.
"3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period"
It is the default period if a country doesn't leave earlier or agree an extension.
https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/BRIE/2016/577971/EPRS_BRI(2016)577971_EN.pdf Page 2
 
inbetween said:
May's mandate was to deliver Brexit "no deal is better than a bad deal".

Every single Tory MP was elected to deliver Brexit and over 400 MP's voted for no deal and to put the mechanism in place that gives it.

I'm not arguing for no deal anyway, I'm arguing for the common sense and compromise that should of taken place years ago but it's probably too late now.
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That is true but....

May did not win a majority and

The Tories are the ones that killed off the chances of a compromise / workable outcome.
 
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