Another new Brexit thread

[Ban-jani]

A letter to me eh? Sadly it's not surprising you find a potential medicine shortage so amusing, or at least the reaction of those of who are directly affected and who take the assurances they have been given in good faith.

He finds the fact you’re dismissing it so flippantly funny, not the lack of medicine itself, as it epitomises Brexit and the delusionals that reject the warning signs.

 

[George Hannah]

Are you talking about your own care home here, George?
It would explain a lot.

What would it explain?

 

[George Hannah]

He finds the fact you’re dismissing it so flippantly funny, not the lack of medicine itself, as it epitomises Brexit and the delusionals that reject the warning signs.

What have I dismissed?

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

The backstop is undemocratic and contravenes the Good Friday Agreement because the majority of Unionists oppose it. It also locks us into a vassal state status with no unilateral exit mechanism, and May’s deal has been rejected three times largely because of it. In fact, May’s deal without the backstop has already shown it carries a majority in Parliament (Brady Amendment).
It has to go, and I believe Boris has made progress in explaining this to our European friends. Question is what replaces it? Clearly the British side has learnt from May’s mistakes and are keeping their cards close to their chest, but we can see the basics of the potential deal from what has been discussed already. It looks like we’re proposing an all Ireland approach to agriculture and food, a trusted trader scheme for goods with exemptions for small businesses and intelligence led checks carried out away from the border. All businesses will be required to sign up during the transition period, and be prepared to accept on site checks. Seems reasonable and achievable to me, and a deal along these lines could allow a route back for the Tory rebels and be supported by around 30 Labour MPs who represent Leave areas and are no doubt well aware that their days are numbered if the referendum result isn’t respected.

I would question this statement.
1. I don't see how it is undemocratic, as your government who you elected negotiated it.
2. It does not contravene the GFA because a majority of Unionist oppose it. The GFA stipulates a majority North and South voting for change to the status quo. it does not state that the northern majority will be Nationalist or Unionist or Chines for that matter. It's a simple majority of all citizens.
3. You might be correct that a majority of Unionist oppose change, but see No.2 above. I would say the majority up North don't want to exit the EU, but they have to according to your referendum.

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

A letter to me eh? Sadly it's not surprising you find a potential medicine shortage so amusing, or at least the reaction of those of who are directly affected and who take the assurances they have been given in good faith.

You do understand that this is a thread where some people are arguing for brexit and don't believe or care about medicine shortages and the rest are arguing it is a ridiculous idea to contemplate leaving the EU and bring this mess on ourselves. And those assurances are coming from your side of the argument and those against know full well this whole predicament is built, lies upon lies, from those that promote it.

You are in the former but claiming the moral high ground.

 

[robbieh]

And more want to stay in the UK union than go it alone as a member of the EU.

Agreed. The point I was making though was that Leave won by 4‰ in the UK as a whole and that was sufficient to characterise the UK as being Leavers. Fair enough.
But I think the same can be applied to the Scots who with a 15% difference are certainly Remainers.

 

[Hesperus]

You understand how the backstop would be used by the EU to screw us over in the subsequent negotiations? The EU now
understand our clear position that it has to go.
The DUP will not be thrown under the bus and nor should they be, any agreement must have the consent of both traditions in the North in order for the GFA to be respected.

Yes I do, but that’s a consequence of Brexit. It’s never going to be a good outcome for the UK.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

The republicans in NI will never agree to any form of brexit - why would they.

It has nothing to do with Republican/Nationalists or Unionist. The majority of business up north don't want to leave.

 

[Hesperus]

The main issue with it is it makes us the country Leave told us we were prior to the referendum i.e a rule taker but not a rule maker

Only until the future relationship deal is agreed. Which it would be at some point in the future. Then, we set our own rules.

 

[Ban-jani]

What have I dismissed?

The legitimacy of the letter.

 

[AlexWilliamsGloves]

The backstop is undemocratic and contravenes the Good Friday Agreement because the majority of Unionists oppose it.

Thats not quite correct...the DUP oppose it, not the majority of Unionists...NI as a whole voted to, and still wants, to remain.

Not all Unionists vote for the DUP

 

[George Hannah]

Getting your excuses in first, nice.

Many private companies in the UK alongside the NHS have EU wide permissions/authorisation to purchase and distribute medicines. Under a no deal brexit this cease to apply and as yet there is no other process by which they can attain the same. But yes I'm sure if this does lead to shortages it is because "some private care companies who hide appalling service failure, directly resulting from their profiteering, by resorting to any fake excuse they can think of".

Not sure it's 'nice' but to those familiar with Private Care companies such tactics are very familiar and I'm confident that any prospect of shortages - be they of rubber gloves, plastic aprons or even "fuel" - will be exploited by some as crudely as your defence of their profit protection methods. You'll notice the provision of medicines was not mentioned by the letter in question and I commented on the non-alarmist NHS approach to advising about their contingency arrangements in that regard by contrast. I'm also sure there are very many companies in the sector who act responsibly and will continue to do so. You may indeed work for one.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

A letter to me eh? Sadly it's not surprising you find a potential medicine shortage so amusing, or at least the reaction of those of who are directly affected and who take the assurances they have been given in good faith.

Just to let you know how "amusing" I find medicine shortages, my brother could die because of them, aged 40.

It's just one of the many, many reasons why I feel utter contempt for selfish, stubborn, deluded, brainless, xenophobic Leave ostriches like you.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

Thats not quite correct...the DUP oppose it, not the majority of Unionists...NI as a whole voted to, and still wants, to remain.

Not all Unionists vote for the DUP

Indeed and as I pointed out in the Irish Current Affairs thread, Foster after the RHI scandal lost around 10 seats in the assembly and it was 28 to 27, DUP v Sinn FEin.
Unionists no longer held the majority in the assembly, I believe.

Expalins a lot about their relunctance to go back and the opportunism that they are displaying in Westminster.

 

[George Hannah]

The legitimacy of the letter.

Exactly so, for a reason. I initally drew attention to its orginator's ((#StopBrexit #Sodem AKA Mack@ianhowes1970) lack of response to questions about its provenance and then made a general point about unscrupulous care providers practices based on the evidence in its content. I contrasted this with the responsible way the NHS gave information about its arrangements in the event of temporary supply shortages. If you don't think Project Fear is the leitmotif of the Remainers efforts to kill any form of Brexit I'm not surprised - but it is nonetheless and it is largely baseless and also probably pointless since it seems we're clearly staying in.

Just to let you know how "amusing" I find medicine shortages, my brother could die because of them, aged 40.
It's just one of the many, many reasons why I feel utter contempt for selfish, stubborn, deluded, brainless, xenophobic Leave ostriches like you.

A ball of mindless, contemptuous fury - primitive selfish rage personified. It's a pity Harold Pinter isn't still around - he could have written a play about you.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

Exactly so, for a reason. I initally drew attention to its orginator's ((#StopBrexit #Sodem AKA Mack@ianhowes1970) lack of response to questions about its provenance and then made a general point about unscrupulous care providers practices based on the evidence in its content. I contrasted this with the responsible way the NHS gave information about its arrangements in the event of temporary supply shortages. If you don't think Project Fear is the leitmotif of the Remainers efforts to kill any form of Brexit I'm not surprised - but it is nonetheless and it is largely baseless and also probably pointless since it seems we're clearly staying in.
A ball of mindless, contemptuous fury - primitive selfish rage personified. It's a pity Harold Pinter isn't still around - he could have written a play about you.

I'm sensing some tension between you two.
I'm guessing you don't like each other much.

 

[Blue Hefner]

Only until the future relationship deal is agreed. Which it would be at some point in the future. Then, we set our own rules.

What do you mean by ‘set out own rules’? There will negotiations with larger countries and blocs and compromises will have to be made by the UK.

 

[Hesperus]

What do you mean by ‘set out own rules’? There will negotiations with larger countries and blocs and compromises will have to be made by the UK.

I meant ‘set our own laws’. In reply to your earlier comment.

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

I meant ‘set our own laws’. In reply to your earlier comment.

The laws that get set by the EU are around 15% of UK law and they are the ones that relate to membership with the EU - the standardisiation you need in a trading bloc. So we have full control of 85% of our laws and the other 15% are aligned to the rules of the EU. If we do trade deals with other countries laws will have to change to be alligned to the agreement.

By that same standard the only way to have full control of your laws is to enter no trade agreements with anyone!

 

[Blue Hefner]

I meant ‘set our own laws’. In reply to your earlier comment.

Like what? Allow handguns on our streets?

What sort of laws do you have in mind?