Another new Brexit thread

[Saddleworth2]

If it does get us a deal?

What will you do?

Depends on the deal surely.

 

[Metal Biker]

Absolutely incorrect, most remainers in here would compromise with a deal. It’s the leave voters who are pushing for no deal that are the problem.

Course they are.

I hear every day remainers campaigning for a deal by shouting "stop brexit".

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Nice red herring. The point was that you said I was contradicting myself about Brexit. Several times. My response is there above.

Have a go at it. Come on. Calling me "Dismal" is original and powerful and upsetting and all that, but you can really embarrass me now with your intellect.

Having met you in person, you are anything but dismal.

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

That is some spin

We are where we are to a large degree down the attitude of Remainers who also, in the main, seem to split into two camps

1. Utterly intolerant Remainers - those that have never been willing to countenance that the outcome of the referendum should be implemented and have just displayed contempt for all things Leave and arrogance in their confidence that the campaign to overturn the vote will be successful - it is just a matter of time. You can include a lot of the members of the HoC in that grouping and a lot of the citizens that express Remain views on forums such as this one. These, in the main and with relatively few exceptions, have spoken with forked tongues about their wishes to see an outcome that can bring the country together because that served as convenient deceit to hide their true aims. They can now be found screaming about how things could be possibly unfair, wholly blaming all things Leave and all Leave supporters for the potential risk that is emerging because they fundamentally remain intolerant of people having the democratic right to have held and continue to hold a Leave position.

2. Belatedly concerned Remainers - those that have been so arrogant and confident that the vote will be overturned but are now starting to feel the implications of what might happen if there was actually the genuine potential of a no-deal option and the political will to use it. You can include a small, but increasing, minority of members of the HoC in that grouping and a lot of the citizens that express Remain views on forums such as this one. These cannot bring themselves to openly admit that perhaps they should not have been so contemptuous, smug and arrogant over the last 3 years and, deep down, are wishing that they had shown some tolerance and perhaps supported the development of a Leave option, rather than arrogantly assuming that their demands should and will prevail. They are increasingly now found expressing themselves as 'reasonable' and 'balanced' as if they had not spent 3 years expressing utter contempt and confidence that the vote would be overturned.

You are clearly desperate for the remain cause to be beset by the same issues as leave. Remain is incredibly simple, it is the status quo, we get there without having to negotiate anything, we simply issue a letter and it's done.

We are where we are because leave involves a range of outcomes - none of which resemble the promises of the leave campaign. The campaign led leavers to believe and expect all the best bits of all of forms of leaving could be achieved in a simple deal. The right wing press has conditioned people to reject the reality of the difficulty in reaching any deal and the inevitable negatives - the result is no workable way forward. The clamour for No Deal is just a desperation to press on for emotive reasons ignoring the lies and misinformation that got us to this point.

Your two points above are just different reasons why you dislike remainers and the various ways there views might be expressed - they add nothing to the debate. You don't like remainers because they are dealing with reality and you want to ignore it.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Is that impending? With so many justices involved won’t it take them an age to agree and write up their judgement? And for the dissenters to write up their opinions. Middle of next week?

I'd still say that was impending, but I'm not going to die in a ditch over it.

 

[Ban-jani]

Course they are.

I hear every day remainers campaigning for a deal by shouting "stop brexit".

And I hear leave voters campaigning for compromise by shouting “WTO Brexit now” or “clean Brexit”.

You see how both sides have become so polarised right?

The difference is the government aren’t taking into consideration the remainers shouting “no Brexit”, they’re only taking into consideration the extreme wing of their own party and the UKIP/Brexit Party supporting minority of the public, as they believe that’s the most likely group to vote for them.

 

[Ban-jani]

No red herring at all. Saying you'd be better off under a Johnson government is akin to saying you'd be better off if we exited the EU, because while you might've missed it Johnson wants us out - maybe even without a deal - so if you know that then why are you saying you'd be better off under a Johnson government?

He was referring to the tax cuts. That’s pretty obvious.

 

[Metal Biker]

You are clearly desperate for the remain cause to be beset by the same issues as leave. Remain is incredibly simple, it is the status quo, we get there without having to negotiate anything, we simply issue a letter and it's done.

We are where we are because leave involves a range of outcomes - none of which resemble the promises of the leave campaign. The campaign led leavers to believe and expect all the best bits of all of forms of leaving could be achieved in a simple deal. The right wing press has conditioned people to reject the reality of the difficulty in reaching any deal and the inevitable negatives - the result is no workable way forward. The clamour for No Deal is just a desperation to press on for emotive reasons ignoring the lies and misinformation that got us to this point.

Your two points above are just different reasons why you dislike remainers and the various ways there views might be expressed - they add nothing to the debate. You don't like remainers because they are dealing with reality and you want to ignore it.

You also want to ignore the fact that there is a significant proportion of the population of this country that no longer wishes to continue to be a member of the EU, and that for them the "status quo" has changed, one to a position where the UK is no longer a member of the EU.

You wish to ignore this position because you disagree with it. Remaining in would not be the status quo and persisting is essentially one viewpoint forcing the other to adopt it's position, just as the no deal leavers tend to do.

 

[Metal Biker]

And I hear leave voters campaigning for compromise by shouting “WTO Brexit now” or “clean Brexit”.

You see how both sides have become so polarised right?

The difference is the government aren’t taking into consideration the remainers shouting “no Brexit”, they’re only taking into consideration the extreme wing of their own party and the UKIP/Brexit Party supporting minority of the public, as they believe that’s the most likely group to vote for them.

Yes I do, but i'm not defending the actions of the no dealers, you appear to be defending the remainers position, or at least ignoring the fact that remainers on here mostly talk about stopping brexit entirely.

If i'm wrong, please list the names of all the remainers on this forum who you feel support leaving the EU with a deal.

 

[lust overlord]

Yes I do, but i'm not defending the actions of the no dealers, you appear to be defending the remainers position, or at least ignoring the fact that remainers on here mostly talk about stopping brexit entirely.

If i'm wrong, please list the names of all the remainers on this forum who you feel support leaving the EU with a deal.

I'm one for a start.

 

[M18CTID]

He was referring to the tax cuts. That’s pretty obvious.

Is it? What's obvious is you can't have a Johnson government without Brexit so it's a weird comment for someone who opposes Brexit so vehemently to come out with. Actually, it's not a weird comment when you consider who posted it. Now with all due respect, as much as you like to "like" his posts on this thread because they square with your own opinions, you were still in primary school when I first came across said poster on another forum so I think I can safely say that I have enough experience of his character down the years to pass judgement whereas you don't. You'll learn though.

 

[M18CTID]

Yes I do, but i'm not defending the actions of the no dealers, you appear to be defending the remainers position, or at least ignoring the fact that remainers on here mostly talk about stopping brexit entirely.

If i'm wrong, please list the names of all the remainers on this forum who you feel support leaving the EU with a deal.

GDM does to be fair

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

You also want to ignore the fact that there is a significant proportion of the population of this country that no longer wishes to continue, and that for them the "status quo" has changed, one to a position where the UK is no longer a member of the EU.

You wish to ignore this position because you disagree with it. Remaining in would not be the status quo and persisting is essentially one viewpoint forcing the other to adopt it's position, just as the no deal leavers tend to do.

Dreamers v's realists!

The reality is that we are currently members of the EU and if we leave there will be significant adverse implications.

 

[Metal Biker]

I'm one for a start.

You want to leave the EU with a deal but you call yourself a "remainer"?

Well then you're a leaver. Welcome to the club.

 

[Ban-jani]

Yes I do, but i'm not defending the actions of the no dealers, you appear to be defending the remainers position, or at least ignoring the fact that remainers on here mostly talk about stopping brexit entirely.

If i'm wrong, please list the names of all the remainers on this forum who you feel support leaving the EU with a deal.

I’m doing exactly what you’re doing. We’re both highlighting those on each side that won’t compromise. I actually defend the right of anyone to say what they want about Brexit, they’re entitled to but it’s not helpful.

Well that’s hardly a progressive exercise but off the top of my head-

Me
Westdidsblu
Len Rum
Bob
Blue Hefner
GDM

Apologies if I’ve missed anyone, feel free to respond stating so.

Have all stated a compromise to leave, I believe, if a reasonable deal is found.

We all agree it’ll be worse than our current agreement but we’ll compromise.

The trouble we have on here is that the argument has shifted from leave and remain to no deal and everything else. The last few months I’ve almost completely just argued against no deal but some on here now see that as an attack on Brexit as an entirety. They now only see no deal as Brexit and a deal can get in the bin.

 

[Metal Biker]

Dreamers v's realists!

The reality is that we are currently members of the EU and if we leave there will be significant adverse implications.

We have notified we wish to leave as a result of a national free and open referendum.

That wish, promised by the currently elected Government to be implemented, hasn't been.

That is the status quo. "If we leave there will be significant advers implications". Hyperbole. Only in result of a no deal brexit.

 

[Metal Biker]

I’m doing exactly what you’re doing. We’re both highlighting those on each side that won’t compromise. I actually defend the right of anyone to say what they want about Brexit, they’re entitled to but it’s not helpful.

Well that’s hardly a progressive exercise but off the top of my head-

Me
Westdidsblu
Len Rum
Bob
Blue Hefner
GDM

Apologies if I’ve missed anyone, feel free to respond stating so.

Have all stated a compromise to leave, I believe, if a reasonable deal is found.

We all agree it’ll be worse than our current agreement but we’ll compromise.

The trouble we have on here is that the argument has shifted from leave and remain to no deal and everything else. The last few months I’ve almost completely just argued against no deal but some on here now see that as an attack on Brexit as an entirety. They now only see no deal as Brexit and a deal can get in the bin.

WDB is not a leaver.
You've named 5 others. That is not the majority of remainers, i'm sorry to say.

Do you call yourself a leaver now, then?

 

[blueinsa]

I’m doing exactly what you’re doing. We’re both highlighting those on each side that won’t compromise. I actually defend the right of anyone to say what they want about Brexit, they’re entitled to but it’s not helpful.

Well that’s hardly a progressive exercise but off the top of my head-

Me
Westdidsblu
Len Rum
Bob
Blue Hefner
GDM

Apologies if I’ve missed anyone, feel free to respond stating so.

Have all stated a compromise to leave, I believe, if a reasonable deal is found.

We all agree it’ll be worse than our current agreement but we’ll compromise.

The trouble we have on here is that the argument has shifted from leave and remain to no deal and everything else. The last few months I’ve almost completely just argued against no deal but some on here now see that as an attack on Brexit as an entirety. They now only see no deal as Brexit and a deal can get in the bin.

Welcome to the club then.

I’m a leaver that wants and still expects a deal.

Happy days, what have we been arguing about the last 3 years?

 

[Metal Biker]

GDM does to be fair

Again, i've not seen anything to suggest that GDM is now a leaver who supports a deal being reached over just remaining in.

 

[lust overlord]

You want to leave the EU with a deal but you call yourself a "remainer"?

Well then you're a leaver. Welcome to the club.

No,I'm supportive of making the best out of the pile of shit we've been put in.

Revoking will piss off approx half the electorate.