Another new Brexit thread

[Ban-jani]

You seen my join date?

I have, you are aware people can have more than one profile?

I’ve only seen you in the Brexit thread over the last few weeks and I’ve been in here for 3 years.

 

[M18CTID]

I have, you are aware people can have more than one profile?

I’ve only seen you in the Brexit thread over the last few weeks and I’ve been in here for 3 years.

How is that possible when this thread was only created on the 9th July 2019?

Unless you mean the previous threads in which case you'll see I was a regular contributor last summer. You'll also know that this is a City forum first and foremost and therefore most of my posts will be on the City-related threads with a fair few on the cricket thread too. Now I'm not sure why you think I need a fucking alter-ego to post on this thread but hey-ho.

 

[mcfc1632]

Now that's squirming.

What's squirming?

Weird comment

 

[mcfc1632]

So, zero basically and has completely shown your whole argument to be rubbish.

OK, thanks for the appraisal

 

[mcfc1632]

If you are replying to who I think you are, you are wasting your time as he is pretty unpleasant and far too agressive to debate anything meaningful with.

Not sure if I am or not - there seems to be an 'alter ego' / tag-team relationship going on - but otherwise I can relate to your experience and will try to take your advice

 

[mcfc1632]

Oh FFS...er Brexit...they are being given due consideration, to the extent that we are leaving the EU.....

Don't think so

Yesterday's posts were a lot about the views of Scotland - there has been a lot commented upon with regard to N.I (very understandably)

FFS - I would strongly suspect that there are have been a lot more views explicitly about the views of citizens of the ROI than explicitly about those of English people - the clear majority of which voted Leave - on these threads.

The WA negotiated by May was a heavily biased towards Remain

Nope - I do not think that the views of English people have been well represented/considered at all.

 

[west didsblue]

Not sure if I am or not - there seems to be an 'alter ego' / tag-team relationship going on - but otherwise I can relate to your experience and will try to take your advice

And you called my comment weird!

 

[Ban-jani]

Yeah, which means your position is that you now support leaving the EU.

It's that straight forward.

Oh my god, how clear do I have to be?

If I got asked to vote I’d vote remain every time. It’s the best option.

I’ll be voting for a party that will offer another referendum probably at the next GE, if we’re not out by then.

But at this moment in time there isn’t a vote for me to make and therefore I’d be content with leaving with a deal that doesn’t trash our economy and upholds the GFA.

 

[Chris in London]

I'm afraid you've made it abundantly clear you are a paradigm case of those you describe in your compelling 'last line':

"Oh, and don’t believe anybody who blathers on about regaining sovereignty. They are spouting shite about things they don’t understand."

All international treaties involve a loss of sovereignty, that is their inevitable consequence. Joining the EU meant a progressive loss of sovereign legal competence and continuing membership of the intended federalised state will ensure the loss of our sovereign democratic processes and independence as a country if and when that primary EU objective is realised.

No they don't. That just demonstrates you don't understand what sovereignty is, and it really isn't my fault if you choose to spout shite about things you don't understand.

Please read what the Supreme Court had to say on the matter. This is para 43 of their judgment in the first Miller case. (

Here's the link if you want to read the full judgment: ​

https://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKSC/2017/5.html​

)

Parliamentary sovereignty is a fundamental principle of the UK constitution... It was famously summarised by Professor Dicey as meaning that Parliament has “the right to make or unmake any law whatsoever; and further, no person or body is recognised by the law as having a right to override or set aside the legislation of Parliament" -

You see that? parliament has the right to make or unmake any law whatsoever - including any laws emanating from the EU.

As to that, they added (para 61):

EU law enjoys its automatic and overriding effect only by virtue of the 1972 Act, and thus only while it remains in force. That point simply reflects the fact that Parliament was and remains sovereign: so, no new source of law could come into existence without Parliamentary sanction - and without being susceptible to being abrogated by Parliament.

(My emphasis.)

If you understand that, you understand why I say that membership of the EU does not and never did involve any loss of sovereignty. If you don't understand that, well sorry but go back to the final line of my earlier post.

Or are you going to tell me why the Supreme Court is wrong?

 

[bluejon]

Don't think so

Yesterday's posts were a lot about the views of Scotland - there has been a lot commented upon with regard to N.I (very understandably)

FFS - I would strongly suspect that there are have been a lot more views explicitly about the views of citizens of the ROI than explicitly about those of English people - the clear majority of which voted Leave - on these threads.

The WA negotiated by May was a heavily biased towards Remain

Nope - I do not think that the views of English people have been well represented/considered at all.

Was it bollocks. It was biased towards trying to keep her party together, that was the aim of it, and it hasn't worked. You lot need to move on from seeing everything as a remainer plot. May's WA would have meant we would have left the EU, that is not biased towards remain.

 

[mcfc1632]

Most of the leavers want no deal. If they’re only offered a straight choice between soft Brexit and Remain many of them will boycott the vote

Not sure if that is true

The WA - any WA or deal (or no-deal) is simply the outcome of negotiations and people will have to live with it.

If a choice was put to the public between:

Remain or May's deal with an unfettered backstop - I would vote Remain, because the unfettered backstop is faaar worse than Remaining

If the choice was May's deal with a fettered backstop - I would take Leaving - because we would be at least out of the EU

If it was EEA or Remaining - I would take EEA - because we would be at least out of the EU

Etc.

I think that you are wrong to say - "Most of the leavers want no deal." and I do not think that there is evidence to back that up at all.

A lot of us are sensible and understand the importance of having a (genuine) No-Deal option to strengthen negotiations - I would suggest that there is only a small minority that actively wish for a no-deal.

 

[mcfc1632]

Are you being argumentative?

I've been following that poll of polls for 3 years. So you saw the evidence and then asked for the evidence? Bizarre.

But I'm glad you think 52/48 in favour of Remain (and mostly higher) is too close to call.

Revoke now and end the madness.

I emphasised English voters:

That the majority of English voters wish to remain

And your source always seems to be dubious polls and your monitoring of the demographics of death stats

meaning that was the example of where you twisted/invented and asked for the evidence - where is it?

 

[Ban-jani]

How is that possible when this thread was only created on the 9th July 2019?

Unless you mean the previous threads in which case you'll see I was a regular contributor last summer. You'll also know that this is a City forum first and foremost and therefore most of my posts will be on the City-related threads with a fair few on the cricket thread too. Now I'm not sure why you think I need a fucking alter-ego to post on this thread but hey-ho.

Obviously I mean the Brexit threads over the last 3 years. Don’t be pedantic.

I’ve just never seen you at all and then you’ve come on talking as if you’ve always been here.

I just found it odd.

 

[Ban-jani]

BREAKING-

UK cannot meet EU Brexit deadline and needs another year.

Well well well.

 

[blueinsa]

BREAKING-

UK cannot meet EU Brexit deadline and needs another year.

Well well well.

Breaking where?

See nothing on the news websites as yet?

 

[mcfc1632]

EU Council will be too late to negotiate Brexit deal: French source

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-...tiate-brexit-deal-french-source-idUSKBN1W40SD

So:

Step 1. establish clarity that the backstop must be removed - nothing else needed

Step 2. discuss the opportunity to use 'alternative arrangements' and to implement an effective standstill/transition period following 31/10/19 during which details will be finalised and embedded into a future agreement

Step 3 - place the EU in a position where they have no time to dissemble and they either go with that of they execute No-Deal and do that before you

Step 4 - place Westminster in a position where they have no time to dissemble and they either go with that of they execute No-Deal

Step 5. Leave and then negotiate during the transition period

Seemed quite an obvious approach and has the benefit of ending this farce either way - of course until Westminster's last throw(s) of the dice

 

[west didsblue]

BREAKING-

UK cannot meet EU Brexit deadline and needs another year.

Well well well.

Presumably because Johnson now understands that the SPS plan doesn't solve the overall customs problem in Ireland.
Maybe something like a backstop is required?

 

[Gaylord du Bois]

What, the same poster who could've been banned a dozen times over for his incessant vitriolic attacks on anyone who dared to vote differently to him in the referendum? Who does the same on numerous other threads not related to this one and has done since long before you became a member? Who regularly talks down to posters in a condescending manner and has often acted like he owns this forum?

That comment of George's was indeed unpalatable, but considering the poster stated something completely contradictory to that the other week (that a hard Brexit might actually see him better off), it makes you wonder what he's playing at.

I need more clues.

 

[west didsblue]

BREAKING-

UK cannot meet EU Brexit deadline and needs another year.

Well well well.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...no-deal-stephen-barclay-october-a9111756.html

 

[mcfc1632]

If this is the case why didn't it work for Theresa?

?? strange question

Was never used - was never even threatened

The key words are 'viable' and 'political will to use it'