Another new Brexit thread

[Neville Kneville]

What has actually happened is that the losing side in a referendum has refused to accept the result and this is leading to huge ructions in society. Rather than owning that and arguing that this is a price worth paying for staying in the EU, they deflect and attempt to pass the buck. If people were asking for all sides to tone down the rhetoric I could get behind that, but they aren’t even willing to do that. Remainers have split into two camps, one just simply wants to cancel the referendum result and the other proposes a rigged referendum. How they have the balls to claim the moral high ground is beyond me.

Because WE didn't vote for this fucking shite. WE didn't want a referendum.

The people who demanded the recerendum, such as Farage, are saying right now, that THEY will not accept the likely deal, Johnson would come back with. So even if Parliament did pass such a deal, a substantial number of YOUR FELLOW BREXITEERS, will not accept it.

So it follows, that if Corbyn took over, & negotiated a Norway type deal, as some of your fellow Brexiteers on here, have said they would accept, many of YOUR FELLOW BREXITEERS, in the Brexit Party & the Conservative Party, will not accept it.

But their brothers on here, don't care. Yet the same people keep going on about 'democracy'.

It may be the case by now, that the majority is in favour of remaining, but to ask them would be, according to some of those same, people 'undemocratic'.

But forcing a Brexit upon millions of Brexit voters, which they don't accept, would of course be 'democratic'.

What absolute bullshit.

And those who voted 'remain' can be blamed for this shit, not the leave voters who can't even agree with each other & are willing to dump on each other ?

It's our fault for not wanting a referendum in the first place, not wanting to leave & for telling you, they were all lying to you & it would end in chaos ?

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

I think there is an excellent chance a temp Govt will be installed and the chances are greater purely because of Johnson himself. Under any other PM there would be zero chance of it happening. Next week or so are going to be interesting to say the least.

Hilarious watching opposition parties wrestling with their dual hatreds of corbyn and the referendum result. Gradually dawning on them that they may have to put up with one or the other.

 

[cibaman]

The idea increasingly being clung to by brexits, that we leave and then reapply would be a compromise..and we have to compromise or there will be "blood on the streets". How about we rerun the referendum this time with all possible outccomes in the public domain, instead of the blank cheque that brexit insists we voted for. No compromise needed justice seen to be done
All right collateral damage, as in canals being blocked with brexits and faragists (blessing in disguise ;) but no rivers of blood

Leavers will not accept the result of a 2nd referendum between some variant of May’s Deal and Remain. No Deal would have to be an option if the 2nd referendum is to bring a degree of closure. And parliament will not approve a referendum question that includes no Deal

 

[Metal Biker]

The idea increasingly being clung to by brexits, that we leave and then reapply would be a compromise..and we have to compromise or there will be "blood on the streets". How about we rerun the referendum this time with all possible outccomes in the public domain, instead of the blank cheque that brexit insists we voted for. No compromise needed justice seen to be done
All right collateral damage, as in canals being blocked with brexits and faragists (blessing in disguise ;) but no rivers of blood

What's stopping us re-running the referendum again if it doesn't go "our" way?

You see the predicament there? Why should anyone else honour any future referendums when some of you refuse to honour the first?

 

[Cheadle_hulmeBlue]

I was just about to reply with something similar - you saved me bothering.

Sone of the Remain posters on here just drip hatred, contempt - and recently - envy

Apparently without thinking about how they make themselves look

yep. what i find ridiculous/ ironic is the amount of remainers now offended by certain language being used, when literally for the last 3 years theyve insulted, mocked and called leave voters every name under the sun. contempt and an attitude of basically 'I'm better then you'. the true colours of a lot of these mps are coming out now as well - 'we couldnt care less what you think'.

 

[Ban-jani]

Because WE didn't vote for this fucking shite. WE didn't want a referendum.

The people who demanded the recerendum, such as Farage, are saying right now, that THEY will not accept the likely deal, Johnson would come back with. So even if Parliament did pass such a deal, a substantial number of YOUR FELLOW BREXITEERS, will not accept it.

So it follows, that if Corbyn took over, & negotiated a Norway type deal, as some of your fellow Brexiteers on here, have said they would accept, many of YOUR FELLOW BREXITEERS, in the Brexit Party & the Conservative Party, will not accept it.

But their brothers on here, don't care. Yet the same people keep going on about 'democracy'.

It may be the case by now, that the majority is in favour of remaining, but to ask them would be, according to some of those same, people 'undemocratic'.

But forcing a Brexit upon millions of Brexit voters, which they don't accept, would of course be 'democratic'.

What absolute bullshit.

And those who voted 'remain' can be blamed for this shit, not the leave voters who can't even agree with each other & are willing to dump on each other ?

It's our fault for not wanting a referendum in the first place, not wanting to leave & for telling you, they were all lying to you & it would end in chaos ?

Nail on head.

 

[Metal Biker]

Because WE didn't vote for this fucking shite. WE didn't want a referendum.

The people who demanded the recerendum, such as Farage, are saying right now, that THEY will not accept the likely deal, Johnson would come back with. So even if Parliament did pass such a deal, a substantial number of YOUR FELLOW BREXITEERS, will not accept it.

So it follows, that if Corbyn took over, & negotiated a Norway type deal, as some of your fellow Brexiteers on here, have said they would accept, many of YOUR FELLOW BREXITEERS, in the Brexit Party & the Conservative Party, will not accept it.

But their brothers on here, don't care. Yet the same people keep going on about 'democracy'.

It may be the case by now, that the majority is in favour of remaining, but to ask them would be, according to some of those same, people 'undemocratic'.

But forcing a Brexit upon millions of Brexit voters, which they don't accept, would of course be 'democratic'.

What absolute bullshit.

And those who voted 'remain' can be blamed for this shit, not the leave voters who can't even agree with each other & are willing to dump on each other ?

It's our fault for not wanting a referendum in the first place, not wanting to leave & for telling you, they were all lying to you & it would end in chaos ?

But you* DID state that you'd honour the result of the referendum, and at the time even called out Farage for suggesting a re-run in the event of a close remain win was disgraceful and that after this referendum the matter should be closed.

Of course, that's when all the polls showed a 55%-45% remain victory. Hold another referendum by all means. And then, 3 months later, we'll campaign that the public has "changed their minds on remaining" and demand we hold another referendum. You starting to see the problem here? Compromise on a leave you'd like to see and we can move on, you can even campaign to rejoin at a later date if you so wish. Continue to press for remaining and the matter of brexit, and all the vitriol, anger, resentment and division continues as well.

*you here having the meaning of those remainers who said such things at the time

 

[George Hannah]

Sky News

‘The Greater London Authority has referred Prime Minister Boris Johnson to the Independent Office for Police Conduct for a possible investigation into whether he committed misconduct in a public office in connection to his friendship with American businesswoman Jennifer Arcuri’

Here's the 'independent official' who decided Boris needed investigating. Her main job is “overseeing the delivery and implementation of the Mayor’s priorities and strategies in areas including social integration, equality...” Red Ken never had to put up with this sort of thing.

Emma Strain
Executive Director, Communities & Intelligence and Monitoring Officer Salary:£90,128.40 (pro rata) plus £12,000 Monitoring Officer allowance. Emma, working in a job-share with Sarah Mulley, is responsible for overseeing the delivery and implementation of the Mayor’s priorities and strategies in areas including social integration, equality and fairness, culture, health and education, volunteering, and sport. Emma and Sarah also oversee the GLA’s work on city intelligence and data, external affairs, engagement with London’s communities, city operations and fire and resilience. Emma is also the Executive Director sponsor of the GLA’s LGBT+ staff network. In October 2017, Emma also became the Authority’s statutory Monitoring Officer.

Nice work if you can get it

 

[smudgedj]

Hilarious watching opposition parties wrestling with their dual hatreds of corbyn and the referendum result. Gradually dawning on them that they may have to put up with one or the other.

Not knowing Boris’s strategy is driving them mad.

 

[Cheadle_hulmeBlue]

What's stopping us re-running the referendum again if it doesn't go "our" way?

You see the predicament there? Why should anyone else honour any future referendums when some of you refuse to honour the first?

exactly. i was watching question time the other night and they had an mp from Plaid Cymru on. he basically said "we need another referendum and this will be the final decision and we will implement it."... as soon as he said that most people laughed. its like they can't hear themselves. they don't understand the damage that will happen by ignoring the referendum. a lot of these areas already felt angry and ignored, what on earth do they think will happen if we just ignore it. basically have another referendum (rigged) so we get the result we want.

it might not happen, but i honestly think a few things would happen. from mass rioting, populists winning, millions of people never voting again. even if they dont happen the level of hate and anger towards mps will be like nothing ever seen before. you can see the reaction already.

a lot of these mps who so badly want to remain are in leave voting constituencies swell.

 

[Ban-jani]

Here's the 'independent official' who decided Boris needed investigating. Her main job is “overseeing the delivery and implementation of the Mayor’s priorities and strategies in areas including social integration, equality...” Red Ken never had to put up with this sort of thing.

Emma Strain
Executive Director, Communities & Intelligence and Monitoring Officer Salary:£90,128.40 (pro rata) plus £12,000 Monitoring Officer allowance. Emma, working in a job-share with Sarah Mulley, is responsible for overseeing the delivery and implementation of the Mayor’s priorities and strategies in areas including social integration, equality and fairness, culture, health and education, volunteering, and sport. Emma and Sarah also oversee the GLA’s work on city intelligence and data, external affairs, engagement with London’s communities, city operations and fire and resilience. Emma is also the Executive Director sponsor of the GLA’s LGBT+ staff network. In October 2017, Emma also became the Authority’s statutory Monitoring Officer.

Nice work if you can get it

Seriously what point are you making here?

She earns a good salary?

So?

 

[Neville Kneville]

What's stopping us re-running the referendum again if it doesn't go "our" way?

You see the predicament there? Why should anyone else honour any future referendums when some of you refuse to honour the first?

Good question.

The answer: there was no majority asking for the first one, we were just told it would happen. Both Bozo & Farage suggest a 2nd one should be involved, so that's the leaders of both Brexit Parties.

After this next one.

LET'S NOT HAVE ANY MORE, EVER ABOUT ANYTHING.

 

[meltonblue]

What's stopping us re-running the referendum again if it doesn't go "our" way?

You see the predicament there? Why should anyone else honour any future referendums when some of you refuse to honour the first?

Personally I hope we never have another referendum about anything. I don’t think it is compatible with our parliamentary system anyway, nor would I want to go directly to the electorate about many topics even if it was.

Just on this one though, I don’t think it should ever have been just one public vote. Not in terms of leave or remain but at the various stage gates post the initial decision being made. The way it was set up and everything about it was just turgid from both sides.

 

[George Hannah]

What makes you think she’s not independent?

Independent ? Sounds like the sort of well paid job you'd like to keep by doing what you're told by your boss. The timing of this clearly shows it as a blatant political attack and she is the weapon.

 

[Neville Kneville]

exactly. i was watching question time the other night and they had an mp from Plaid Cymru on. he basically said "we need another referendum and this will be the final decision and we will implement it."... as soon as he said that most people laughed. its like they can't hear themselves. they don't understand the damage that will happen by ignoring the referendum. a lot of these areas already felt angry and ignored, what on earth do they think will happen if we just ignore it. basically have another referendum (rigged) so we get the result we want.

it might not happen, but i honestly think a few things would happen. from mass rioting, populists winning, millions of people never voting again. even if they dont happen the level of hate and anger towards mps will be like nothing ever seen before. you can see the reaction already.

a lot of these mps who so badly want to remain are in leave voting constituencies swell.

What do you think will happen in those areas, after we leave ?

With a Tory Government under Boris Johnson ?

 

[Ban-jani]

independent?

What makes you think she’s not independent?

 

[Metal Biker]

Good question.

The answer: there was no majority asking for the first one, we were just told it would happen. Both Bozo & Farage suggest a 2nd one should be involved, so that's the leaders of both Brexit Parties.

After this next one.

LET'S NOT HAVE ANY MORE, EVER ABOUT ANYTHING.

That's not exactly democratic, is it, removing the electorate from decisions. Because we're not smart enough collectively to get involved?

But we're smart enough to choose those MP's who make those decisions though, right? They govern with our consent, remember. We were taken into the EEC without our consent, and had to hold a referendum to decide if it's what the public wanted. It returned a 65% yes and we stayed in.

The result of THAT referendum was "honoured", for 40+ years. Why not this one?

 

[Metal Biker]

Personally I hope we never have another referendum about anything. I don’t think it is compatible with our parliamentary system anyway, nor would I want to go directly to the electorate about many topics even if it was.

Just on this one though, I don’t think it should ever have been just one public vote. Not in terms of leave or remain but at the various stage gates post the initial decision being made. The way it was set up and everything about it was just turgid from both sides.

If we don't hold referendums, we shouldn't hold general elections either.

The electorate mustn't be consulted in matters that involve the nation, but IS consulted on who it is that governs the nation and which policies it follows? Something is seriously wrong there. The referendum wasn't legally binding; the Tories made leaving the EU one of it's new pledges to the people as a result of the referendum and has been trying to carry it out. Many MP's on both the opposition bench and in Government were elected in 2017 on the back of seeing the UK leave the EU, but many still disagreed on how that was to be acheived.

Removing referendums removes the electorate on national decisions; that is a very murky path to want to follow.

 

[Lancet Fluke]

I think there is an excellent chance a temp Govt will be installed and the chances are greater purely because of Johnson himself. Under any other PM there would be zero chance of it happening. Next week or so are going to be interesting to say the least.

I want Johnson out as much as the next person but they have to be really careful with this. What is the proposed end game beyond removing the Tories in the short term because it is only going to massively strengthen the people v parliament bullshit. I think it's crucial that they let him bring back a deal which will play really badly with a lot of Brexiters and play particularly badly with the Brexit Party making it more difficult for Farage to justify a non-aggression pact. I realise there is a fear Johnson won't abide by the Benn Act but it is supposed to be pretty tight so while I'm sure he will try some more dodgy shit, they should be confident he can be outmanoeuvred as he has been at every turn so far. I think any GNU in the immediate future is just letting him off the hook and will probably just make a Tory/Brexit Party coalition more likely in the general election which would be catastrophic. If they form a GNU and use it to have a second referendum before another general election then I think there are problems there too in terms of the people v parliament narrative.

 

[BobKowalski]

Independent ? Sounds like the sort of well paid job you'd like to keep by doing what your told by your boss. The timing of this is clearly shows it as a blatant political attack and she is the weapon.

I think Johnson bunging some woman he was shagging £125k may have had some influence on the decision.