Another new Brexit thread

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I actually think now we need a general election where every party stamps its position to the mast on Brexit. Whatever coalition is formed can take over these negotiations.

I was pro second referendum but there’s no guarantee the politicians will be able to deliver and it would probably just further delay this farce.

Or we just sign this shit deal, see the country gradually become worse and worse and then I can at least just blame the leavers.
 
It’s gone from I respect the referendum but..,

To

I support the pm's deal but......

To we will pass the deal but we want to remain in the SM and CU and have FOM and it has to go to a confirmatory ref and even then someone on the remain side, probably the SNP will say no.
 
I actually think now we need a general election where every party stamps its position to the mast on Brexit. Whatever coalition is formed can take over these negotiations.

I was pro second referendum but there’s no guarantee the politicians will be able to deliver and it would probably just further delay this farce.

Or we just sign this shit deal, see the country gradually become worse and worse and then I can at least just blame the leavers.

Have no illusions or fear mate, the blame will go both ways.
 
Minister Michael Gove has insisted the UK will still leave the EU by 31 October, despite a government letter sent to Brussels asking for a delay.

Boris Johnson sent the letter - unsigned - after a major setback in the Commons to his Brexit strategy.

But the request was accompanied by a second letter, signed by the PM, saying he believed a delay would be a mistake.

Mr Gove told Sky News the government still had "the means and ability" to leave on 31 October.

The minister, who as chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster is in charge of no-deal planning, said "the prime minister's determination is absolute" and the government's "determined policy" was to meet that deadline.

"We know that the EU want us to leave, we know that we have a deal that allows us to leave," he told the Sophy Ridge programme.

From BBC 'Breaking News'

So he is basically saying to hell with Parliament. The Government will do exactly as it wants. Not sure thats what 'taking back democracy' means.

Yeah and parliament saying to hell with the people we don’t want to respect the referendum result, nor have a general election .

Not sure what is democratic about that either
 
So the Letwin amendment wasn't to make time to discuss the deal and pass it then?

Well I never Bob.

The European Withdrawal Act is ‘the deal’. What Letwin did was withhold ‘meaningful vote consent’ until ‘the deal’ is discussed, scrutinised and voted on in its entirety. The ‘meaningful vote’ is but one provision of the European Withrawal Act.

I said months ago that this Act had to be passed for the Withdrawal Agreement to have legal force and that it was going to be a bun fight. Now that the Govt has lost the DUP it’s even more of a bun fight.

What Letwin has done is allow more time for the deal, ie the Act, to be examined and have amendments festooned all over it. Time is the Govts enemy. Johnson’s tactic was to give Parliament limited time within which to examine the Act under the threat of no deal. Letwin buggers that tactic.

But surely you are not against proper Parliamentary scrutiny of important legislation? Democracy and all that.
 
The European Withdrawal Act is ‘the deal’. What Letwin did was withhold ‘meaningful vote consent’ until ‘the deal’ is discussed, scrutinised and voted on in its entirety. The ‘meaningful vote’ is but one provision of the European Withrawal Act.

I said months ago that this Act had to be passed for the Withdrawal Agreement to have legal force and that it was going to be a bun fight. Now that the Govt has lost the DUP it’s even more of a bun fight.

What Letwin has done is allow more time for the deal, ie the Act, to be examined and have amendments festooned all over it. Time is the Govts enemy. Johnson’s tactic was to give Parliament limited time within which to examine the Act under the threat of no deal. Letwin buggers that tactic.

But surely you are not against proper Parliamentary scrutiny of important legislation? Democracy and all that.

Bob, please.....save it on me its wasted mate.

lets just revoke the fucking thing and go to a GE.

The country can then elect a Parliament it truly deserves.
 
Bob, please.....save it on me its wasted mate.

lets just revoke the fucking thing and go to a GE.

The country can then elect a Parliament it truly deserves.

It elected this one in 2017...and decided it didn’t want to give the Tories a majority to decide Brexit. Surely you are not saying we should let the people decide again after only two years and before they have had a chance to implement the Brexit they were elected to oversee? Shocked mate :)
 
Going to be a fun week...

‘Starmer says DOZENS of amendments will be put down on Withdrawal Agreement Bill this week. Tells DUP that Labour's door is open for talks on how to work together on this’ @dailymail
 
Moving on from here, it seems that only a second referendum is a way out of this mess but at the same time this second referendum could leave us with more problems than ever. The 2016 referendum had a straight choice, leave or remain. The result was Leave with a 51.9% vote, Remain scored 48.1%. The majority was 1,269,501 for the leavers. Despite this, Parliament has fought tooth and nail to get the nation out of their commitment to carry out the wishes of the majority. We can argue all day [or over three years] to find an agreement that is acceptable to Parliament, the EU and to the British electorate but that isn't going to happen and, if the 'second referendumers' get their way then there is going to be at least one other ballot, or more until we get the result that Parliament wants.

But what is to go on this ballot? Is it going to be another yes or no choice, or is it going to be a fudge by offering multiple options? I call it a fudge because, if the most talked about options are anything to go by then there will be three choices [1] Remain [2] Leave with a deal, or [3] Leave without a deal. This would be a dangerous ballot as the winning result would still need a majority vote of over 50% to make it viable. If one of these options was declared to be the 'winner' by scoring, say, 40% of the vote with the others totalling 30% each, then how could 40% be deemed a binding verdict when 60% voted against it whereas over 50% of the 2016 ballot had their wishes obstructed?

The more I look at it, the more it seems to resemble banana republics and their attitudes towards their electorates.
The vote will be whatever the Remainers consider to be sufficiently loaded to guarantee them the answer they want

They need to feel better about themselves so that they can hide from the inconvenient truths of their actions

Now this will be ridiculed by some Remainer posters - which in itself proves my point.

I am just holding up a mirror to their actions and would not be surprised if they find the reflection pretty ugly
 
For not carrying out the result of 2016 mate
A national embarrassment
They should all be tried for treason.

They are. MPs will be discussing the European Withdrawal Act this very week. Taking a bit longer than expected but we only concluded (revised) withdrawal negotiations with the EU last week so think we should cut them some slack.
 
They are. MPs will be discussing the European Withdrawal Act this very week. Taking a bit longer than expected but we only concluded (revised) withdrawal negotiations with the EU last week so think we should cut them some slack.

Its the masquerade as seen by your post Bob that really stings us leavers.

You're kidding nobody pal ;-)
 
The whole thing could be canned but the vested interests that are the biggest influence on many people’s opinions won’t let that happen. I’m talking about those that control the mass media. Because like it or not, the people who decide the editorial line of the Sun and Mail and their associated websites have more power than is healthy.
Journalists from the Telegraph and Mail on Marr - one happens to be married to the odious Gove. Balance?
 
Have no illusions or fear mate, the blame will go both ways.

Leavers will blame remainers for leaving Europe and thus making the country worse off... I mean I know some of you leavers are a special bunch but that would be pretty comical!
 
I wouldn't say it was him getting 'confused'. He knows what he is doing.

The less said about Andrew Marr, the better.

A fair point, being disingenuous probably.

He has skin the game though as a hard right free marketeer who wants workers rights dismantled as they are a barrier to his version of free trade.
 
I’m still in a whimsical mood :)

But I’ll shut up now. Don’t want to overstay my welcome.

Stay Bob, its going your way so enjoy it mate.

I will pop in every now and ten to demand we revoke.

I really want to see the fall out from the GE that will follow now.
 
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