Another new Brexit thread

[bluethrunthru]

Lots of people know. If we enter the Withdrawl Agreement we enter a negotiation around a FTA that typically takes 4 years + and that is assuming it ever gets done. No deal will be the legal default so we will face the prospect of no deal on an annual basis for the foreseeable future. Brexit is shit - we are not putting this shit behind us, we are just getting started.

of course - the needle has just moved up off zero so we are about to push the choke in.........even when fully warmed up we still have a journey that will take at least one full tank of fuel.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Neither is support for remaining.

But do you recognise that there is no symetry between the Remain and the Leave position? The two sides are not equal. One side "lost" the referendum vote, the other "won".

We may not like this. We may argue it was badly framed, unfair, should never have happened, whatever. But none of that changes the fact that the country voted to Leave, they did not vote to Remain.

THEREFORE, if and when we leave (and I think it is when, btw) , the Remain side will reluctantly have to accept it. If we end up deciding to remain, the Leave side is entirely justified in NOT accepting it.

 

[bluethrunthru]

According to detailed polls Its 30-45% of previously Labour voters in the North/Midlands/South Wales depending on where you are in the country. Also, most of them wouldn't vote Tory but would vote TBP.

In which case they would get neither a Labour nor a BP Government - but they would get their just desserts

 

[Saddleworth2]

Broadly true I guess.

Or word it another way. He made promises that he knew there was little chance he could deliver. Thats lying mate however you want it dressed up. He did it so he can blame others, the EU, parliament. Its all part of his game. Anyone that takes a word he says at face value seriously needs to give their head a wobble.

 

[robbieh]

Not Nigel fucking Farage, that's for sure. I'd have that twat tried for treason and hung drawn and quartered.

For creating this mess? Yes, but Cameron,who humoured him, and Johnson whose volte face garnered enough support should share the same fate.

 

[BlueAnorak]

Every single promise Johnson makes is broken. Out by 31st October, no border in the Irish Sea, will never ask for an extension. When you tell so many lies it is inevitable.

All politicians lie. It's part of their job description. Anyone who thinks otherwise is seriously deluded. Here are some corkers from 3 years ago.

 

[Chippy_boy]

I don't think so mate. Him and his creepy mate are just serial liars that will tell the good people of the UK anything to try and further their own agenda. That they are fully supported in their lies by the UK media goes some way to explaining why so many people still lap it up. The chances of us leaving on 31st October were extremely slim from the start unless you believe a no deal Brexit was a realistic outcome (remember the numbers in the HoC before you deny that) and yet he stated he would die in a ditch if it didn't happen. He knew one outcome was unlikely and the other outcome he never intended and yet he still promised it to the UK public. He continues to promise things he doesn't have the capability or power to deliver. He lied and he will continue to lie his way through this, just as his past career and personal life are polluted with lies.

"if lies were flies, you wouldn't hear a word he said because of the persistent buzzing'.

That you think he's a persistent liar, I get.

I simply have issue with people saying person xyz lied about something when the actual reality is they simply failed to deliver it. It's a common (and usually deliberate) mistake on here and it winds me up. You can say Johnson lied that we would be out on October 31st if you like, just as you can say 2 + 2 = 7, if you want to. You'd still be wrong.

 

[Saddleworth2]

But do you recognise that there is no symetry between the Remain and the Leave position? The two sides are not equal. One side "lost" the referendum vote, the other "won".

We may not like this. We may argue it was badly framed, unfair, should never have happened, whatever. But none of that changes the fact that the country voted to Leave, they did not vote to Remain.

THEREFORE, if and when we leave (and I think it is when, btw) , the Remain side will reluctantly have to accept it. If we end up deciding to remain, the Leave side is entirely justified in NOT accepting it.

Democracy moves on mate. Your mandate is wearing very thin after 3 + years of this bloody shambles. Your arguments lie in tatters, your benefits void, your leaders proven liars. Time to ask 'the people' if hey still want this bloody mess.

 

[Saddleworth2]

All politicians lie. It's part of their job description. Here are some corkers from 3 years ago.

Ha, the Brexiteers search for equivalence continues...

 

[Chippy_boy]

All politicians lie. It's part of their job description. Here are some corkers from 3 years ago.

EVERYONE on this thread should watch this and then sit down and have a long hard think.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Like it or not, check the last 3 years out and his predictions of what would transpire from both government and opposition and ends and the EU have been pretty spot on.

That we’d move from having an ineffectual **** to a lying **** as PM?

 

[Chippy_boy]

Ha, the Brexiteers search for equivalence continues...

I don't know if that's the most deluded post on the entire thread, or just a massive Clarkie, but somehow I am thinking it must be the former?

 

[Coatigan]

The consequences for our society if we don’t leave will be even worse than if we do. What a fucking state of affairs.

I disagree. Society will recover just fine, we have to trust it to be mature enough to digest that it potentially flirted with disaster and dodged a near miss, should we somehow end up staying. Which i doubt.

We keep hearing how the Scottish public will quickly realize they don't actually want independence. And now there is a poll suggesting 16% 2014 yes voters have switched to no. If you beleive that, then by the same logic, surely society is capable of changing its mind and recognising and accepting things arent what they've seemed or been sold as.

 

[Saddleworth2]

That you think he's a persistent liar, I get.

I simply have issue with people saying person xyz lied about something when the actual reality is they simply failed to deliver it. It's a common (and usually deliberate) mistake on here and it winds me up. You can say Johnson lied that we would be out on October 31st if you like, just as you can say 2 + 2 = 7, if you want to. You'd still be wrong.

I'm not intending to wind you up. I have always believed you don't make a promise unless evidence, facts, rational logic says you can deliver on it. A persons word is their bond. I am quite old fashioned that way. Johnson promises things he cant deliver. Not just occasionally but often. He even makes promises on things he can deliver and then doesn't (Irish Border). He is a serial liar and not fit in any way to be Prime Minister of what was a proud nation.

 

[Saddleworth2]

I don't know if that's the most deluded post on the entire thread, or just a massive Clarkie, but somehow I am thinking it must be the former?

Insults don't make you any more correct :-)

 

[Blue Hefner]

Not Nigel fucking Farage, that's for sure. I'd have that twat tried for treason and hung drawn and quartered.

Maybe you would. But there are plenty of people who take him as gospel and it is a constituency which Johnson will need to consider very carefully

 

[BobKowalski]

Dublin has okayed the 31st Jan extension and apparently Johnson and Corbyn are in talks about a new program motion for the bill.

 

[Blue Hefner]

EVERYONE on this thread should watch this and then sit down and have a long hard think.

Lots of things have changed since those quotes were taken. Some of the most obvious being the Tories lost their majority and as a result have not been able to agree on a position, Theresa May not involving the HoC on the process and position the UK wanted to take. The margin of victory being so close not really being reflected in May's approach and her being a terrible salesperson

On top of that, it was supposed to be an easy transition. We have also had the pound collapse, various solutions to the NI issue, potential tariffs etc.

In short, I am not a fan of quote videos like that as it suggests people cannot or should not change their minds

 

[blueinsa]

All politicians lie. It's part of their job description. Anyone who thinks otherwise is seriously deluded. Here are some corkers from 3 years ago.

Their endeth the lesson.

Of course they never said that we will be told as we have been told the last 3 years but they did.

 

[Coatigan]

I agree a couple of weeks to get the drafting right and tighten things up would be fine but I fear this will be

amendment 1 second referendum

amendment. 2 Scotland having a separate vote

amendment 3 rewriting the agreement reached in Northern Ireland

and so on and so on ,

there will be those like Ken Clarke who will add value to the bill and there will be those who are there to downright cause a nuisance

as the agreement is merely being presented for ratification there can’t be a huge (if any) departure from its terms , otherwise we have to start again

I don't think amendment 2 has any legs at this stage, as much as i think it is only fair, it can't really happen, in principle or in reality (i.e numbers). It would feed the rhetoric of 'stacking' the remain outcome. Which, lets face it, would absolutely kill off brexit. If indeed there is a change in opinion (hardly anyone seems to think there is) it has to be fairly portrayed. Otherwise we're in the exact same shit, only treading from the other direction.