Another new Brexit thread

[Coatigan]

Something I found incredibly interesting...

My Belfast born, Republican, Irish mate said to me tonight ‘you know those other cunts in Belfast’ (meaning unionists) ‘they think you’ve absolutely fucked them, do you know that?’.

I found it quite sobering, considering who this lad is.

He/they are right.

I've seen some argue, 'ah they'll be happy, many voted remain anyway, so closer alignment with EU is good for them'.

That isn't the point. It is the principle of being treated like a sacrificial bargaining chip, or even discarded, and their own representatives (who have propped the gov) ignored.

And i know a few scot unionists that say the same, folk that have voted no to independence, some even campaigned against it. Imagining if it had happened to Scotland, even if a better outcome for them & the country, they'd feel alienated and unequal secondary parts, and feel they are losing faith in the principle of Union.

 

[Coatigan]

So in twenty-five years the Tories have had a outright majority for two of those years in which time they launched a badly conceived referendum that saw an MP murdered during the campaign and the result of which has sharply divided the country. Triggered a two year negotiation phase with no plan or consensus, called a snap election that saw them lose their majority but carried on anyway and proceeded to butcher the negotiations to fulfil the referendum result leaving us with a bill to pay of £39 billion for the privilege of losing market access in Europe and ceded economic control of one of the home nations within our own Union.

And you think the other main party would have done a worse job? I mean how? I get that critical thinking is not the in thing these days but I didn’t realise Tory voters had dumbed down to the extent they would probably get outwitted by plant life.

Yet Labour can't compete with/beat what has to be not one, but two, of the worst PMs the uk has had in decades, in a divided bickering swing-ball tory party. It is a sad state of politics, it really is.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

Is "wrong" as specialist subject of yours or something? Do you swot up on it?

26th September: United Kingdom opposition leader Jeremy Corbyn will demand a general election as soon as a Brexit extension is secured from the European Union.


Pressed on whether he would whip MPs to vote for an election the moment an extension is agreed, he said: "Absolutely. Once we have agreed on the extension and carrying out the law of this country - at that point, and I made that very clear in my conference speech - we will support a general election."


https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019...brexit-extension-secured-190926170056113.html

@Len Rum : Add it to your list of Labour Lies.

Context matters ..... if you read the entire article you'll see

Pressed on whether he would whip MPs to vote for an election the moment an extension is agreed, he said: "Absolutely. Once we have agreed on the extension and carrying out the law of this country - at that point, and I made that very clear in my conference speech - we will support a general election."

Hes making sure that Johnson adheres to the Benn Act.. which he wouldn't commit to in Parliament.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

The only way I ever saw a deal being done was with a 32 county economy.
That’s leaving the polarised politics out of it.
But the thing about this deal that I think will cause trouble is that if you were in business up north, how could you plan for the future if;
1. You don’t know where you will be in 14 months.
2. You don’t know where you’ll be every 4 years.

Politically you don’t have any incentive to get the assembly up and running.
The GFA had a consent of both communities built into it and it was there for a reason.
Brexit has now altered this within the Assembly for a Brexit vote which doesn’t sit right with me.
Brexit and The GFA are different entities and this is blurring the lines.

In the absence of an Assembly Westminster will make the decision and as the DUP have seen they will cut the North adrift if they have the numbers for a deal and still have the option of a hard border again if they end up with No Deal.

Very troubling times and built in uncertainty for Northern Ireland and us too as a result is how I see this deal. Seems great for Nationalists on the face of it, but I don’t really see it that way.

Mind you I was never in favour of forcing an All Ireland decision on the North in this way.

That sort of thing should have years of consideration and planning and further integration.
It should have evolved naturally. Not like this.

Mind you if Brexit leads to a breakup of the Union, then what.
A different ball game then. Where would unionism go then.

The
Tories
Don't
Care,

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

The
Tories
Don't
Care,

Conservative and Unionist Party?

 

[stonerblue]

Conservatives. Party of the working man....

Wow, what a surprise...

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

The
Tories
Don't
Care,

Conservative and Unionist Party?

They want their Brexit and they wants it now! Seriously though ... people need to start asking themselves why all the rush ? Labour have offered to work with them , give the WAB proper scrutiny .. propose some amendments (not new amendments simply put back what the Tories have stripped out)

Why the rush all of a sudden?



Answer : Eu anti -tax avoidance directive.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Conservatives. Party of the working man....

Nothing to see here. We want control of our own laws. We do not do that by handing control to someone else before we even start.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Wow, what a surprise...

It really isn't, is it. Nothing to see here.

 

[Chippy_boy]

And you think the other main party would have done a worse job? I mean how?

They could have completely wrecked the economy Bob. You take low inflation, low unemploynent and relatively low taxes for granted. These are not god-given gifts that Labour are unable to take away. The economy is like a plate spinning delicately on a stick. You cannot expect to come along and give it a right good whack with idiotic Labour tax, spend and meddle plans, and for everything you take for granted to carry just fine.

The only Labour leader in living memory who has not fucked it up was Blair, and his policies were NOTHING like those of Corbyn or McDonnell who are set on making systemic, irreversible change. Have you any idea what that means and the possible impact?

 

[MillionMilesAway]

I think it’s likely it will be hung, with the Tories the only party that could conceivably get a majority (as long as Corbyn remains Labour leader).

My take fwiw.

Conservatives as largest party seems obvious.

 

[stonerblue]

It really isn't, is it. Nothing to see here.

What? Nothing to see?
I suggest a visit to specsavers mate.

 

[Coatigan]

They want their Brexit and they wants it now! Seriously though ... people need to start asking themselves why all the rush ? Labour have offered to work with them , give the WAB proper scrutiny .. propose some amendments (not new amendments simply put back what the Tories have stripped out)

Why the rush all of a sudden?



Answer : Eu anti -tax avoidance directive.

And, because of the polls! they are favourable right now, got to milk it while its there.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Context matters ..... if you read the entire article you'll see

Pressed on whether he would whip MPs to vote for an election the moment an extension is agreed, he said: "Absolutely. Once we have agreed on the extension and carrying out the law of this country - at that point, and I made that very clear in my conference speech - we will support a general election."

Hes making sure that Johnson adheres to the Benn Act.. which he wouldn't commit to in Parliament.

Nice try, I'll give you that. Faced with a direct quote from Corbyn contradicting your earlier claim, you've given it a good effort.

I think it's pretty clear however that he made a commitment to a GE once an extension is secured, and now he's reneging on that.

Liar Corbyn is just as valid a slur as being banded around in the other direction.

 

[Chippy_boy]

What? Nothing to see?
I suggest a visit to specsavers mate.

My perspective is just fine mate.

I don't want our ability to set our own laws being taken away and for our laws to be decided by someone else over whom we have no control nor influence.

And I certainly do not want to unilaterally offer that up as if it is some kind of "win" when the very opposite is true.

Do you?

It is for our public and through us, our parliament to decide on our employment legislation, for better or for worse. Not some other party.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Wow, what a surprise...

Just reading that - more Johnson lies - well bugger me eh? Funny thing is workers rights won't be an issue for all those solid leave seats constituents once "it" gets done ( whatever version if it they think they are getting ) as they won't have any work to go to..............wait until they see his plans for benefits..............

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Conservatives as largest party seems obvious.

Only (virtually) certain outcome irrespective of whether there’s a majority, subject to the caveat I provided.

 

[George Hannah]

Just reading that - more Johnson lies - well bugger me eh? Funny thing is workers rights won't be an issue for all those solid leave seats constituents once "it" gets done ( whatever version if it they think they are getting ) as they won't have any work to go to..............wait until they see his plans for benefits..............

Why do you only get upset about Leaver lies?

 

[Bluemanc100]

So in twenty-five years the Tories have had a outright majority for two of those years in which time they launched a badly conceived referendum that saw an MP murdered during the campaign and the result of which has sharply divided the country. Triggered a two year negotiation phase with no plan or consensus, called a snap election that saw them lose their majority but carried on anyway and proceeded to butcher the negotiations to fulfil the referendum result leaving us with a bill to pay of £39 billion for the privilege of losing market access in Europe and ceded economic control of one of the home nations within our own Union.

And you think the other main party would have done a worse job? I mean how? I get that critical thinking is not the in thing these days but I didn’t realise Tory voters had dumbed down to the extent they would probably get outwitted by plant life.

Are you saying the murder of Jo Cox is the Tory’s fault??

Or did my amoeba like brain misinterpret your comments?

 

[bluethrunthru]

Why do you only get upset about Leaver lies?

I find Johnsons casual lying like it has no consequence appalling - lies to girlfriends and wives indicate a disdain for those he should be close to - lies to the electorate over prorogation that proved to be illegal, the funny goings on with money be it the garden bridge or the "IT consultant" - lies to Leavers like he won't send a letter and we will be leaving do or die next Thursday - thats just a few mate I don't get upset at Leaver lies our PM provides enough to annoy me all the others from the likes of Francois and Rees-Mogg are just side issues really.