Another new Brexit thread

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purplenose said:
I have previously written at length why I hold these views. I cannot really be bothered to do so again but in a nutshell I do not believe you can bolt all the different nations and cultures together and expect them to all work and live the same. That is just with with indigenous people. Thats before you take the huge amount of immigrants and asylum seekers from beyond the borders of the EU. Add to this a clear ambition of ever closer union and federalisation and I think you have a huge Yugoslavia or Soviet Union. Gorby called it a new Soviet Union wearing a western suit which I think covers it.

For me its a matter of time before it goes the same way as Yugoslavia and the USSR.
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I voted remain and think you could be right. It has definitely been a force for good mostly but there’s obviously negatives to the EU and I don’t have any love for it like I do Britain.

I have concerns about it’s direction and further federalism does make me sheepish.

That said, I think deciding to leave now is massively jumping the gun and despite the fact their have been tremours in the last decade, I think we’re going too early when it’s not looking close to terminal for the project. And the terms in which we will leave are likely to be a poor decision generally.

We will have to wait and see what Johnson’s deal brings but for the moment, it’s looking like we will be worse off economically.

The rest of the world are absolutely gobsmacked we’ve decided to do this and are going through with it. Not just in the EU but all over the world they are shocked.
 
Ban-jani said:
I voted remain and think you could be right. It has definitely been a force for good mostly but there’s obviously negatives to the EU and I don’t have any love for it like I do Britain.

I have concerns about it’s direction and further federalism does make me sheepish.

That said, I think deciding to leave now is massively jumping the gun and despite the fact their have been tremours in the last decade, I think we’re going too early when it’s not looking close to terminal for the project. And the terms in which we will leave are likely to be a poor decision generally.

We will have to wait and see what Johnson’s deal brings but for the moment, it’s looking like we will be worse off economically.

The rest of the world are absolutely gobsmacked we’ve decided to do this and are going through with it. Not just in the EU but all over the world they are shocked.
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Like I have said many times I am borderline, very difficult to know, and I think those who are strongly in favour of one side or the other are bloody deluded.

I agree that the timing is almost certainly bad especially if we leave with the oaf as PM. I dread to think what an unholy mess he will make of it. After all the Tories have buggered up just about everything for the last decade. Its a nightmare really.

Lots of blame being thrown about and little seems to be aimed at the EU. I personally think they will live to regret not taking heed of the disquiet that caused the problem in the first place. Its not just here that people have grave doubts and I strongly believe that they could have avoided all of this.
 
lancs blue said:
You've got to laugh I suppose, non-EU countries wanting compo because Brexit uncertainty has impacted trade decisions in some of their main markets. Brazil has a particular grievance about the N.Ireland situation. We should do a quid pro quo, we'll sort out NI if you stop demolishing the Amazon rainforest.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50419130
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Brexit. Guaranteed to bring the lols.
 
To everybody who was adamant that football was somehow above Brexit here is the Brexit secretary putting out the Govt's view on controlling who clubs can recruit and buy. Would we have enjoyed the last glorious 10 years if this blinkered view have prevailed?

 
Gaudion M said:
Do you still believe that the day after we leave we will hold all the cards?

Brexit is a disaster, a slow moving disaster - clear as day. You are in denial.
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Believing that leaving the EU somehow meant staying in the single market and customs union, means you're in complete denial of reality.
 
purplenose said:
I have previously written at length why I hold these views. I cannot really be bothered to do so again but in a nutshell I do not believe you can bolt all the different nations and cultures together and expect them to all work and live the same. That is just with with indigenous people. Thats before you take the huge amount of immigrants and asylum seekers from beyond the borders of the EU. Add to this a clear ambition of ever closer union and federalisation and I think you have a huge Yugoslavia or Soviet Union. Gorby called it a new Soviet Union wearing a western suit which I think covers it.

For me its a matter of time before it goes the same way as Yugoslavia and the USSR.
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Oh geezo, really? not that rhetoric again.

I know you are usually genuine, and engage openly and politely, so i don't mean to sound dismissive. But they really are worlds apart.

Out of curiosity, are you including the UK in your broad brush generalisation of very loosely similar concepts?
 
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Coatigan said:
The promises were, vote for Brexit, and we'll still have ALL the benefits we do now, plus more, but can pick and choose what (also read who) we leave, bin or keep. As that turned out harder and harder to deliver, Hard Brexit covers the reality of leaving with fuck all benefits, which will will hit us all hard, as opposed to a soft brexit that keeps at least some.
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Did you slavishly believe everything said by the remain camp, and vote accordingly?
All this is waffle we've done to death over three years, the discussion is about this 'Hard Brexit' which is merely
delivering the obvious, ie; leave the SM and CU. We voted for exactly that, if you fail to understand this, and need to attach
'Hard Brexit' to a result that horrifies, well crack on, but it does not address the reality.
 
Len Rum said:
At your age mate I can sympathise with you not remembering what a 'Hard' one is.
However just to correct you for the record - whilst it is correct to say we were told during the referendum campaign that leaving the EU meant leaving the single market ( albeit that's not the case in theory - Norway) we were NOT told that leaving the EU meant leaving the customs union.
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With a comment like that, I can only
conclude that in about an hour or so, your mum will be shouting at you to get you teeth brushed before you go to school.
I really can not be arsed putting up the facts about what you claim, as we've covered it in depth, merely wish you a safe
trip in this nasty weather.
 
Ancient Citizen said:
Did you slavishly believe everything said by the remain camp, and vote accordingly?
All this is waffle we've done to death over three years, the discussion is about this 'Hard Brexit' which is merely
delivering the obvious, ie; leave the SM and CU. We voted for exactly that, if you fail to understand this, and need to attach
'Hard Brexit' to a result that horrifies, well crack on, but it does not address the reality.
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I voted for things to remain as they are, i didnt need nor listen to any promises, realistic or made-up. And not everything as is is all wonderful with being a part of EU, but on the whole, it is far more beneficial.

I get what you are saying. I understand your logic. And i do believe that for you, and many who are capable of thinking, that is what brexit did mean, and if im honest, Should mean.

But my point stands, it isnt what was promised, as everything and anything was covered for anyone and everyone. So you took it to mean leaving SM and CU. actually, the second was never promised, in fact, tge opposite was claimed, but they go hand in hand. You can bang on about 'leave won, geddonwithit' all you like, but it was a sham, an undefined one size fits all blanket promise, that exploited individual unrelated fears, ambitions, prejudices, and often lack of knowledge (or detail) collectively in a very binary way. So yes, the defining terms were only introduced later, but that is because the pictire only started to become clear after.

Which is why, for me, the only fair outcome is another referendum, on whatever deal is agreed and passed, vs the status quo. And if the result is leave on that deal (which i think it will be as i doubt any leaver will budge, as it has become about ideology rather than outcome), then so be it. As it is, both sides (remainers and the 'hard' 'clean' proper' 'whatever-the-fuck-adjective-of-choice' brexit lot) will continue to call foul play. Lets face it, it is.
 
bluethrunthru said:
Emma Kennedy@EmmaKennedy

So here’s the thing. Farage is alleging he’s been offered a peerage to stand down (criminal offence) Tice has said similar? Am I right in remembering that? 6 others were also allegedly offered peerages. That’s 8 witnesses to a criminal offence. What’s being done about it?
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Your asking a Tory Government that offered those bribes to do something about the criminal offence that they've committed ........... can you see the fault with your argument?
 
bluethrunthru said:
To everybody who was adamant that football was somehow above Brexit here is the Brexit secretary putting out the Govt's view on controlling who clubs can recruit and buy. Would we have enjoyed the last glorious 10 years if this blinkered view have prevailed?

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This is just not true… not true… NOT TRUE - the numbers of foreign players relate entirely to work permits and visas - issued by the Uk Home office ?


How is it Brexiters are incapable to saying anything that’s true?
 
Ifwecouldjust....... said:
This is just not true… not true… NOT TRUE - the numbers of foreign players relate entirely to work permits and visas - issued by the Uk Home office ?


How is it Brexiters are incapable to saying anything that’s true?
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I guess politics and lies have always gone together but the current Tory party have taken it to new levels.

I have had cause to interact with a different demographic than I would normally lately and the scary thing is that so many people believe the blatant bullshit and vote accordingly.

I don't want to go over the well trodden issue all over again but it was clear that racism is a massive driver for many people.
 
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