Another new Brexit thread

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Vic said:
That's just admitting that people voted Leave but not for leaving without a deal (unless you can cite anyone in the leave campaign who told voters we might leave without a deal). So the first referendum was a fraud.
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Fuck Vic - take some tablets and put that shovel down
 
mcfc1632 said:
OK - but I think was aimed at Remain MPs and a few on here that are clearly entrenched ;-)
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There are many entrenched on all sides.

Remain MPs have mostly been decimated, in heartland seats and therefore you can say that living by the sword and dying by it, is the case very much.
 
Cheadle_hulmeBlue said:
i dont agree with that. i think the government and brexit support has generally been positive. theyve highlighted the benefits, such as trade deals, control of law, control of immigration... for example plenty of times. i think that was actually the downfall of the remain campaign. a campaign based on fear and negativity.

i would also say its very difficult to accurately show the impact of brexit, short or long term as its never happened before. most economic forecasts haven't been correct either.
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What is the bigger benefit than being a senior member of the biggest trade bloc in the world?

What are they realistically going to do over immigration that could benefit the country as a whole that they couldn’t do prior?

As in, measurable benefits and time frames?

I’m sure people(like me) will benefit but the country as a whole, I’m not so sure. And that’s not to say it will be a catastrophe but the vote wasn’t based on it not being catastrophic it was based on being measurably better
 
Cheadle_hulmeBlue said:
i dont agree with that. i think the government and brexit support has generally been positive. theyve highlighted the benefits, such as trade deals, control of law, control of immigration... for example plenty of times. i think that was actually the downfall of the remain campaign. a campaign based on fear and negativity.

i would also say its very difficult to accurately show the impact of brexit, short or long term as its never happened before. most economic forecasts haven't been correct either.
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Fear and negativity about the spurious benefits. Other than Boris bluster, it's going to be crap. And the "less aligned" a deal they want, the harder it will be to do a deal. That's if they want a deal.

Have they recruited the professional negotiators yet, or is there going to be a 6-week delay while they find out all our ex-EU negotiators have got better things to do? Oh gosh - more fear and negativity. Let's clap our hands and believe it's going to be great.
 
Vic said:
Fear and negativity about the spurious benefits. Other than Boris bluster, it's going to be crap. And the "less aligned" a deal they want, the harder it will be to do a deal. That's if they want a deal.

Have they recruited the professional negotiators yet, or is there going to be a 6-week delay while they find out all our ex-EU negotiators have got better things to do? Oh gosh - more fear and negativity. Let's clap our hands and believe it's going to be great.
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Fuck - but you seem determined to be fucking miserable for years to come
 
Vic said:
Yet every opinion poll right till the day of the election had Remain ahead. Including Labour, Remainy parties got more votes in the election. To leave the EU is not what most people want. That's why Leavers wanted to avoid another referendum. You all know that.
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It is what they want,because they voted for it in a once in a lifetime opportunity.
Why we keep discussing this is because you are simply unable to reconcile yourself to losing.
Losing the referendum, the MEP elections, and two more general elections.
It must be a constant torment mate.
 
Vic said:
Fear and negativity about the spurious benefits. Other than Boris bluster, it's going to be crap. And the "less aligned" a deal they want, the harder it will be to do a deal. That's if they want a deal.

Have they recruited the professional negotiators yet, or is there going to be a 6-week delay while they find out all our ex-EU negotiators have got better things to do? Oh gosh - more fear and negativity. Let's clap our hands and believe it's going to be great.
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If there is one constant we can all take comfort from, it's you telling us that it's all going to be crap, we now
know for certain that it won't be.
 
Ancient Citizen said:
It is what they want,because they voted for it in a once in a lifetime opportunity.
Why we keep discussing this is because you are simply unable to reconcile yourself to losing.
Losing the referendum, the MEP elections, and two more general elections.
It must be a constant torment mate.
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This isn’t strictly true.

Remain lost the referendum, which is the main thing but in 2017, Brexit was taken out of it as all parties promised to honour the referendum. In the Euros, remain parties as a whole out-performed the Brexit Party, the Tories and UKIP and in this recent election, it was mighty close.

That said, there’s not been enough of a swing to remain to warrant either stopping Brexit or having another referendum.

I think it’s definitely best we now look to crack on.
 
mcfc1632 said:
There is something fundamental in what you are saying here - and it explains a lot IMO about the way some of the Remainers are unable to get over it.

I don't think that you have been on these threads throughout the 3 years or so - apologies if I have that wrong. If you had been you would have witnessed the cycle that a good number of the Remainers have gone through.

Following the initial period of grievance and anger the Remainers moved on into a long period of increasing confidence and eventually gloating that it was only a matter of time before Brexit was cancelled. There were no doubts - only weeks becoming months of increasing levels of hubris.

In the wider UK this was also evident - the likes of Soubry, Grieve, Benn and others were just enjoying their time in the limelight and milking it. Who could blame them - the incompetence of May and Robbins seemed to ensure that they had no reason to have any concerns. It was just a question of time and they - including Bluemoon's versions of Grieve and Soubry - could just luxuriate in holding court and pontificating.

Then - all of a sudden - against all odds and expectation - something comes along that shows a route out from under their cast iron certainty and over-bearing confidence.

And then - fuck - it has all accelerated and has since gone to hell in a hand-cart....

Corbyn and his team were so utterly fucking certain that they had it all under control and it was just a question of how and when they press the buttons......

And now - as you say - they are left considering perhaps they should have settled earlier - perhaps with May's deal - perhaps they are wondering why they did not take what they 'could have won' - when they could have done.

They and their equivalents on Bluemoon are now just - understandably - stumbling around in a daze and well, frankly - seriously butt-hurt​
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I can only speak about personal feelings but i think this is a very broad and not particularly accurate generalisation of how 'remainers' feel now that the argument has been 'lost'.
I always fervently hoped that Brexit would be overturned but was never confident. I couldn't ever make the conversion of acceptance that some did - switching from a remain position to acceptance of the 'will of the people' - not when I believed so completely that leaving the EU was a fundamentally wrong decision fuelled by the mismanagement of UK politicians and referendum corruption. I still believe that. A great many Remainers are not Labour supporters or Corbyn fans and were desperate about the lack of a truly effective opposition party in the HoC. SNP tried their best but of course numbers were always going to hamstring anything they attempted.
So, I expect like many, I still feel Brexit is fundamentally wrong for the country. Butt hurt as you so eloquently put it, no. Desperately depressed about the state of politics in the UK, absolutely. Brexit blind in terms of seeing any upside of leaving, completely. I guess given time there may be a coming together and 'fundamentalists' like me will die off. For now though lets just enjoy what is about to unfold.....
 
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mcfc1632 said:
Fuck - but you seem determined to be fucking miserable for years to come
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I'll be fine. State and occupational pension, house paid for, not married to a foreigner, not (yet) expecting to need care.

There I was thinking the problem was people in ex-industrial areas of the north who were miserable about their prospects and think Brexit or the Tories will make things better.

Actually they might because marginal Tory seats do get favourable treatment. If that's at the expense of safe Tory seats, that will be interesting. But they'll have to fix the problem that poorer areas have less capacity to raise money from increasing council tax.
 
Blue Hefner said:
I’m with you until the ‘focus on the positives’ bit. I’m struggling with that as outside of ‘getting Brexit done’ and ‘unleashing’ the UKs potential, the Government don’t seem to be talking about the positives, apart from a points based imagination system of course but even that (let’s pretend it’s a positive) is very short on detail

The only way to unite the country is to explain to people the length and breadth of the country, from all background and demographics how we are likely to benefit in the short, medium and long term
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That would involve the Conservatives telling the truth ...... something which they are incapable of doing. They dont seem to be telling us anything actually which Ken Clarke pointed out yesterday.
 
Ancient Citizen said:
After losing every single argument since the referendum result, ie; general elections won by a leave supporting party,
the opposition declaring their intention to honour the referendum result also, then seeing the jaw dropping success of
the BXP in the MEP elections, then a new PM promises an election to break the deadlock on Brexit created by Parliament,
and standing, and shouting, screaming 'GET BREXIT DONE!' holding said election and storming it with a landslide,
you still come out with this utter nonsense.
No doubt what follows will be a frantic exercise in adding up everyone in the population, including babies, prisoners,
foreigners and the insane, umpteen millions kicking the bucket since the vote, and an absolute belief that no remainer whatsoever
has accepted the result at all, and this facile, futile argument will still stagger on.
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People like Vic must live the most miserable of lives, absolutely no optimism whatsoever. It's just all negatives. I know many remainers but none are anywhere near as depressed or in utter denial as he is.
 
Blue Hefner said:
I’m with you until the ‘focus on the positives’ bit. I’m struggling with that as outside of ‘getting Brexit done’ and ‘unleashing’ the UKs potential, the Government don’t seem to be talking about the positives, apart from a points based imagination system of course but even that (let’s pretend it’s a positive) is very short on detail

The only way to unite the country is to explain to people the length and breadth of the country, from all background and demographics how we are likely to benefit in the short, medium and long term
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Don’t you think the reason that they’re not is that they can’t?
 
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