Another new Brexit thread

[joe123]

Unsurprisingly withering assessment of Johnson’s negotiating stance. Who knew?!

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

Interesting concept. If Remain won by 52% what concessions to the 48% of leavers would you have considered appropriate?

Retention of the trading partnership, customs union and single market. Pull out of the political union and abstain from voting on anything not to do with trade. in essence back to where we were in the EEC

Oh ... and apply the rules on immigration as they should be applied (as Cameron was told to do when he went to the Eu asking for a handbrake on Freedom of movement.... but once again ... did nothing)

 

[mexico1970]

Retention of the trading partnership, customs union and single market. Pull out of the political union and abstain from voting on anything not to do with trade. in essence back to where we were in the EEC

So not leaving the EU then? That's not a concession it's capitulation.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

So not leaving the EU then? That's not a concession it's capitulation.

Its taking the UK back to the days of the EEC membership (which the country held a referendum on). Removing the political union and retaining all our vetos .... bit of a half in half out approach.

 

[mexico1970]

Its taking the UK back to the days of the EEC membership (which the country held a referendum on). Removing the political union and retaining all our vetos .... bit of a half in half out approach.

It's staying in and as I said that isn't a compromise, I can see why people who voted to leave the EU and weren't listened to ignored these daft ideas that kept them chained to the EU. Quoting a referendum held half a century ago as some sort of starting point when the EU has changed so much since then isn't relevant and you know it bud.

 

[Ardwick Green Blue]

Both Remainers & Leavers have to wait & see what the outcome is as Johnson has an impregnable majority and the next election is five years off. He will be judged on the state of the economy and how left behind areas have benefited (or not) rather than the specifics of any deal with the EU at that point.

We are all interested bystanders who can only offer opinions, none of which will change anything in the slightest.

 

[BobKowalski]

BBC on GB ports plans for Irish Sea customs checks. Short version. There will be checks. Need new infrastructure. Want to know whose paying for it.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51351677

 

[mcfc1632]

Personally think today should have been used to respect the event and unify the country.

Catching up on this thread - Remainers do not seem to be making any effort

Yet again it is the Leavers that are coming across as more balanced

It's one of the leave narratives that annoys me the most, the "we're all thick racists" line. Obviously not all thick, and obviously not all racists, so I don't think that.

I just think they're all twats.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

Both Remainers & Leavers have to wait & see what the outcome is as Johnson has an impregnable majority and the next election is five years off. He will be judged on the state of the economy and how left behind areas have benefited (or not) rather than the specifics of any deal with the EU at that point.

We are all interested bystanders who can only offer opinions, none of which will change anything in the slightest.

Lets see how he's doing so far ...shall we

November 2019: Tories announce £34 billion public spending increases per year.

December 2019 : Tories win the election.

January 2020 Tories announce £43 billion of spending cuts per year.

Now his 5% reduction in departmental budgets actually means

1 in every 20 nurses.
1 in every 20 teachers
1 in every 20 doctors
1 in every 20 social workers
1 in every 20 Fire fighters
1 in every 20 Council workers
1 in every 20 teaching assistants
1 in every 20 Bin men

Now I don't know about you but most of the services where I live are on their uppers now ... without further cuts coming our way.

Voted to stop refugee children joining their parents in the UK.

Now admits that there will be customs checks in the Irish Sea.

etc etc etc

 

[bluejon]

BBC on GB ports plans for Irish Sea customs checks. Short version. There will be checks. Need new infrastructure. Want to know whose paying for it.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51351677

Mexico?

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

It's staying in and as I said that isn't a compromise, I can see why people who voted to leave the EU and weren't listened to ignored these daft ideas that kept them chained to the EU. Quoting a referendum held half a century ago as some sort of starting point when the EU has changed so much since then isn't relevant and you know it bud.

No but the scenario was if remainers had won.... so that was my proposed compromise. Its evident from this thread that Leavers main concern is the establishment of a European federal State and ever closer political union. Remainers are concerned over the impact on business and trade,

We have vetos that would have called for a UK referendum if the push for closer unity came too hard (providing it got past parliament). Ive always maintained that would/should be the point where the UK voted to leave or remain rather than a flimsy sunlight uplands with unicorns dream.

 

[Ardwick Green Blue]

Lets see how he's doing so far ...shall we

November 2019: Tories announce £34 billion public spending increases per year.

December 2019 : Tories win the election.

January 2020 Tories announce £43 billion of spending cuts per year.

Now his 5% reduction in departmental budgets actually means

1 in every 20 nurses.
1 in every 20 teachers
1 in every 20 doctors
1 in every 20 social workers
1 in every 20 Fire fighters
1 in every 20 Council workers
1 in every 20 teaching assistants
1 in every 20 Bin men

Now I don't know about you but most of the services where I live are on their uppers now ... without further cuts coming our way.

Voted to stop refugee children joining their parents in the UK.

Now admits that there will be customs checks in the Irish Sea.

etc etc etc

You missed out his 80 seat majority and improved standing in the polls but never mind.

The fact is he isn’t being judged now, six weeks after winning the election, but over the next five years.

 

[west didsblue]

2 is incorrect. VAT is subject to the rule "what goes up, cannot come down". That is why we were unable to zero rate tampons etc. This rule inhibits action on VAT, ie you dare not put it up, if you can never bring it down. As for fiscal convergence, you need to look at current ideas for, eg, transactional taxes.
https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-e...n-for-financial-transaction-tax-idUKKCN1TF1OG
3. Its called competition. The same applies to our relationship with the whole world.

2. We still set our own rate but subject to the constraints of the EU VAT regime. Anyway the VAT constraints are as a result of single market membership so I wouldn’t automatically assume that we will regain full control post transition. It will depend on the level of market access negotiated into the trade deal.
An article on a financial transaction tax that would be highly unlikely to apply here even if we hadn’t left doesn’t really back up your fiscal convergence point. Fiscal convergence programmes only apply to Euro members anyway.
3. Sure is, but it used to be beneficial to have a say in the regulations covering our largest market.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

You missed out his 80 seat majority and improved standing in the polls but never mind.

The fact is he isn’t being judged now, six weeks after winning the election, but over the next five years.

However ... since his 80 seat majority he's reneged on every promise made other than delivering Brexit ......

 

[blueparrot]

Lets see how he's doing so far ...shall we

November 2019: Tories announce £34 billion public spending increases per year.

December 2019 : Tories win the election.

January 2020 Tories announce £43 billion of spending cuts per year.

Now his 5% reduction in departmental budgets actually means

1 in every 20 nurses.
1 in every 20 teachers
1 in every 20 doctors
1 in every 20 social workers
1 in every 20 Fire fighters
1 in every 20 Council workers
1 in every 20 teaching assistants
1 in every 20 Bin men

Now I don't know about you but most of the services where I live are on their uppers now ... without further cuts coming our way.

Voted to stop refugee children joining their parents in the UK.

Now admits that there will be customs checks in the Irish Sea.

etc etc etc

To be fair the Irish sea is nothing special he seems to want customs checks in every sea and port.

 

[bluejon]

However ... since his 80 seat majority he's reneged on every promise made other than delivering Brexit ......

Incredible that a man with an unspecified number of children isn't to be trusted.

 

[mcfc1632]

Aye but I am still in brussels chilling with our fellow europeans, we are european and always will be whether in the EU or not.

We are UK citizens - within the continent of Europe

Something that seems to have not been understood well by Remainers - the EU is not Europe

 

[west didsblue]

I've not come across any that think this, the only one that keeps saying it is you.
Not only have not one of the dire apocalyptic forecasts we heard about leaving has come to pass, yet you still persist.

It only seems to be Leave supporters that refer back to dire apocalyptic forecasts based on the version of Brexit promised by the Tory government. It seems reasonably clear that, based on the last few rounds of negotiations, our government will fold like a pack of cards in the upcoming trade discussions leaving us in much the same position as when we were members but with increased freedoms to act independently in one or two niche areas that the government will trumpet as a great victory. This means that Brexit will just be a bit shit rather than an apocalypse and most of us will go on much as before albeit within a regulatory regime that we no longer have a say in.

 

[west didsblue]

Both Remainers & Leavers have to wait & see what the outcome is as Johnson has an impregnable majority and the next election is five years off. He will be judged on the state of the economy and how left behind areas have benefited (or not) rather than the specifics of any deal with the EU at that point.

We are all interested bystanders who can only offer opinions, none of which will change anything in the slightest.

And the award for stating the bleeding obvious goes to....

 

[Ancient Citizen]

It only seems to be Leave supporters that refer back to dire apocalyptic forecasts based on the version of Brexit promised by the Tory government. It seems reasonably clear that, based on the last few rounds of negotiations, our government will fold like a pack of cards in the upcoming trade discussions leaving us in much the same position as when we were members but with increased freedoms to act independently in one or two niche areas that the government will trumpet as a great victory. This means that Brexit will just be a bit shit rather than an apocalypse and most of us will go on much as before albeit within a regulatory regime that we no longer have a say in.

No, it only seems reasonably clear that our government will fold in trade discussions, to those who have
continually been wrong in every prediction they have made. When they have demonstrated, what you claim will be fact,
then such accusations may be valid, as yet, nothing of the sort has been demonstrated.