Another new Brexit thread

  • Thread starter Thread starter Ric
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
dave_blue12 said:
Not sure how they will make it work but a piece of good Brexit news it seems

Click to expand...


Yeah the idea is to capitalise on the introduction of trade barriers and take advantage of the fact that Nissan has an excellent production plant in the UK. The scenario is that other car makers find it impossible to get round the barriers profitably so Nissan grab their U.K. market share to make Sunderland work with a top line production of 400,000 exclusively for the UK market.

Other factor is Japan pushing for a trade deal that sees zero tariffs immediately rather than phased in over 8 years as it is in the EU deal.

To make it work though Nissan need a 1 in 5 market share up from 1 in 25. Also needs other car makers not to react to keep UK market share but retreat thereby opening space for a Nissan push. Also needs other EU countries not to react ie Spain.

No idea how feasible this is but makes sense to have this as one of its contingency plans.
 
BobKowalski said:
Yeah the idea is to capitalise on the introduction of trade barriers and take advantage of the fact that Nissan has an excellent production plant in the UK. The scenario is that other car makers find it impossible to get round the barriers profitably so Nissan grab their U.K. market share to make Sunderland work with a top line production of 400,000 exclusively for the UK market.

Other factor is Japan pushing for a trade deal that sees zero tariffs immediately rather than phased in over 8 years as it is in the EU deal.

To make it work though Nissan need a 1 in 5 market share up from 1 in 25. Also needs other car makers not to react to keep UK market share but retreat thereby opening space for a Nissan push. Also needs other EU countries not to react ie Spain.

No idea how feasible this is but makes sense to have this as one of its contingency plans.
Click to expand...

Its only really a goer if the NISSAN/Renault link up comes to an end. The French Govt would never allow the Micra plant in France to be closed and production moved to the UK. If post Ghosun the two separate then it could be feasible - but again depends on a huge increase in NISSAN sales in the UK and that in turn depends on a buoyant UK market - recently it hasn't been like that though.

You haven't got to forget either that all former GM facilities in the UK are now PSA owned ( big French Govt stake there too ) if NISSAN divested themselves of Renault influence to do this I'd expect the Vauxhall plants to be closed....already the new Corsa is simply a Peugeot model reskinned and rebadged.
 
KS55 said:
I should make it clear that I was answering @Vic assumption that ever closer union was one of the founding principles, which it was not. Since then, there has been much development of the idea, but the ECJ, for example, cites it only as obiter dicta, not as ratio decidendi.
Here's one view.
https://ukandeu.ac.uk/explainers/th...ver-closer-union-among-the-peoples-of-europe/
Click to expand...
Have I got this right? Brexiters got all upset at "ever closer union" and now you're saying it has no legal effect.

That should be a comfort to Ardwick who obviously thought it was something new to be worried about:

Ardwick Green Blue said:
And that cuts straight through to the core concept of the EU. Federalism wanes for periods but then its proponents get confident enough to move closer to it. Terms like 'ever closer union' and 'a two speed Europe' start to be bandied about and more powers are lost by member states and are then centralised under collective voting.

Trade is merely a fig leaf for the creation eventually of a European super state.
Click to expand...
 
Vic said:
Have I got this right? Brexiters got all upset at "ever closer union" and now you're saying it has no legal effect.

That should be a comfort to Ardwick who obviously thought it was something new to be worried about:
Click to expand...
You need to distinguish between the state of play at any one time and the direction of travel.
 
Last edited:
west didsblue said:
1. I’ll take your word for it but as far as I know the UK is already a world leader in genetic development.
2. We already set our own VAT rate. It’s not the same across the EU. We opted out of fiscal convergence in 2012 anyway.
3. Depending on our deal, we may well be disadvantaged by future EU policies anyway and we will have no say in their formulation, so they will be more likely to provide an advantage to EU members at our expense.
Click to expand...
2 is incorrect. VAT is subject to the rule "what goes up, cannot come down". That is why we were unable to zero rate tampons etc. This rule inhibits action on VAT, ie you dare not put it up, if you can never bring it down. As for fiscal convergence, you need to look at current ideas for, eg, transactional taxes.
https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-e...n-for-financial-transaction-tax-idUKKCN1TF1OG
3. Its called competition. The same applies to our relationship with the whole world.
 
bluethrunthru said:
Europe plants to close - thats the NISSAN who partner Renault. Thats Renault who are mostly owned by the French govt? Someone needs to look up what they make in the EU. Stuff they make in the EU is limited to some vans and the Micra. The rest is here or Russia anyway. And of course the stuff made in Japan already.
Click to expand...
There is a massive row currently going on between Nissan and Renault. This may be sabre rattling.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/withou...ult-alliance-has-started-to-crack-11577292916
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
Not as funny as it is for people who don't live there. Remainers laughing at the negative consequences of brexit are like a man laughing at his own house burning down while he's still inside. Perhaps leavers do not have,a monopoly on stupidity?
Click to expand...


This will be the final act of remainers who've had to live with nearly 4 years of 'you've lost .... get over it' with absolutely no movement towards compromise .........a mantra that is still being shouted today from the rooftops.
 
A brief stroll down Brexit Memory Lane.

I was thinking about Cameron's 'deal' from the EU & although I knew it offered very little I had forgotten the specifics of it. Here is a BBC article setting out what he wanted, what the draft agreement said and what was in the final text. My memory of it offering 'very little' was wildly out as it actually offered nothing even vaguely substantive and enforceable. What was he doing when he was kowtowing to all & sundry in the EU for the best part of two years?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35622105
 
KS55 said:
2 is incorrect. VAT is subject to the rule "what goes up, cannot come down". That is why we were unable to zero rate tampons etc. This rule inhibits action on VAT, ie you dare not put it up...
Click to expand...
Er, Germany has just reduced VAT on tampons. Labour reduced tax on tampons from 20% to 5%. The EU is proposing to change the rules on rates and that would allow for zero tax on sanitary products.

Labour reduces VAT. Tories increase it.
 
Last edited:
KS55 said:
1, The issue of GM is not confined to crops, that's your interpretation. I cited "Plants, livestock and people". Now, I don't know enough about genetic medicine to be sure of the size of the opportunity, but I take the word of my wife who is qualified in that field and she thinks it is the future of so much medical development.
In any case, the growing of crops is not necessarily the issue, but the development of the plants, which requires little land may be where its at.
2. While I don't subscribe to the view that the economy is the most important aspect of Brexit, you asked for an example to which I responded. But I did give you an example from the economy --- fiscal convergence-- which provides a potential game changer. We will be able immediately to set our own VAT rates and sales tax regime. This could rescue the high street and provide selective boosts to chosen areas. Boris has said that on day one we will zero rate feminine hygiene products, which EU refused us permission to do. (A small but important issue). If fiscal union or at least steady convergence comes about, and I am sure it will, that will be enormously damaging to some EU countries, but we will escape that damage. The days of tax arbitrage are coming to an end.
3. In general terms, the thing to do is to look to the possible future EU policies to gauge whether Brexit will be an advantage or not.
Edit PS EXAMPLE. If Scotland gains independance and joins the EU, how will their citizens react to tax rates: Vat, income tax etc, much higher than they enjoy now?
Click to expand...


VAT on Tampons and sanitary products was reduced from 17.5% to 5% in 2000 after a campaign by Labour MP Dawn Primarolo. It cannot be reduced to zero as the only rule that the Eu applies is that the minimum rates applicable to 'non essential luxury items' (the classification applied to the products by HMRC) is 5%.

The solution is to reclassify the products as something else ....... something which Cameron and the Conservatives said they were going to do in 2015...... but as usual nothing happened.

You can have zero VAT rated goods it just depends on how the tax regime classifies them. For example edible sugar flowers, alcoholic jellies and exotic meats including crocodile and kangaroo are all Tax exempt.

The Eu cannot influence the taxation applied to earnings.
 
Ifwecouldjust....... said:
This will be the final act of remainers who've had to live with nearly 4 years of 'you've lost .... get over it' with absolutely no movement towards compromise .........a mantra that is still being shouted today from the rooftops.
Click to expand...
Interesting concept. If Remain won by 52% what concessions to the 48% of leavers would you have considered appropriate?
 
smudgedj said:
Interesting concept. If Remain won by 52% what concessions to the 48% of leavers would you have considered appropriate?
Click to expand...

I wanted FOM to continue because it would have made my childrens and grandchildrens life easier. However FOM and the single market were the main reasons people voted to leave and it's my point of compromise to accept that. Most remainers I know have accepted that principle although a small vocal minority use the word compromise as an excuse to flog a Brexit that comprises of staying in the EU in all but name.
 
Vic said:
not even the Leavers now think we'll be better off. We will be worse off but we will be free.
Click to expand...
I've not come across any that think this, the only one that keeps saying it is you.
Not only have not one of the dire apocalyptic forecasts we heard about leaving has come to pass, yet you still persist.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Unread Posts

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top