I note that we are refusing them an office in Belfast too. Something that we had previously agreed to. The NI processes will need to be agrees irrespective of deal/no deal and there does seem to be little progress on agreeing the mechanics of that.A few reports out this morning emphasising the EU's increasing level of exasperation with the UK (AKA not doing what the EU want)
Veiled suggestions that this could lead to fatigue and perhaps even a 'No-Deal'
The increasingly desperate Barnier has stated:
"“It’s exceptional. Never in the history for such important negotiations with any third country, have we been under such time pressure,” an exasperated chief EU negotiator Michel Barnier said after the last round concluded without progress in the most contentious areas....."
And you have Phil Hogan bleating with increasing frequency - and now using the pandemic as a sole reason to extend. No need for that - they just have to accept the positions we have declared. If they are not - what point is there in an extension of any length?
It just emphasises that time pressure is helpful to the UK and not the EU.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/wor...singly-jaded-with-uk-s-brexit-drama-1.4246777
I also found a feeling of irritation and frustration from Hogan in this article - let alone a high level of hypocrisy - why will the UK representatives not just do as they were told like they did in 2016-2019!!!!!
Must be so annoying for them.....
I liked this comment from Gove:
“It is the case that we seek a zero-tariff, zero-quota arrangement,” he said.
“But if it is the case that we end up like CETA with tariffs on a small number of goods, we will regret that, we will think it is a missed opportunity, but if that is the price we have to pay, then there you go.”
https://www.thenational.scot/news/18430654.eu-hits-uk-making-brexit-proposals-in-airwaves/
I am not that fussed about the N.I. office - I see it really as just part of a narrative that the UK is adopting that we intend to leave the EU to become an independent nation - not some annexation of the EU.I note that we are refusing them an office in Belfast too. Something that we had previously agreed to. The NI processes will need to be agrees irrespective of deal/no deal and there does seem to be little progress on agreeing the mechanics of that.
After May's supine response to Barnier, him now panicking and asking us for another extension,"“It’s exceptional. Never in the history for such important negotiations with any third country, have we been under such time pressure,” an exasperated chief EU negotiator Michel Barnier said after the last round concluded without progress in the most contentious areas....."
Resolve is good in any negotiation. We just have to hope that it is discharged in a professional way that results in a good deal for both sides. They need to get a move on though as it needs to be agreed by June (is it?).I am not that fussed about the N.I. office - I see it really as just part of a narrative that the UK is adopting that we intend to leave the EU to become an independent nation - not some annexation of the EU.
So, we do not need the EU to oversee how we implement the mechanics of what we are responsible for.
Indeed - there was much in the WA that we will end up having to comply with/implement - due to the cravenness that characterised the Robbins/May negotiations.
But, where possible we should look to row back from things that we had previously agreed to during that period of cravenness if they are incompatible with being an independent nation. I would expect the PD to be significantly 'adapted'.
It seems - thankfully - that the EU will need to understand and accept our resolve in such matters.
Yep - the price of any limited extension needs to be - amongst other things:After May's supine response to Barnier, him now panicking and asking us for another extension,
as opposed to us begging them is certainly refreshing. I suppose these 'Contentious areas' include
the handing over of British waters, and him still being told no chance.
Agreed - and you are right end of June it is.Resolve is good in any negotiation. We just have to hope that it is discharged in a professional way that results in a good deal for both sides. They need to get a move on though as it needs to be agreed by June (is it?).
I'm still not sure whether you think the EU is going to cave. You like a comment from Gove that sounds like he thinks CETA is the default position but it obviously isn't, it's worse than that.A few reports out this morning emphasising the EU's increasing level of exasperation with the UK (AKA not doing what the EU want)
Veiled suggestions that this could lead to fatigue and perhaps even a 'No-Deal'
The increasingly desperate Barnier has stated:
"“It’s exceptional. Never in the history for such important negotiations with any third country, have we been under such time pressure,” an exasperated chief EU negotiator Michel Barnier said after the last round concluded without progress in the most contentious areas....."
And you have Phil Hogan bleating with increasing frequency - and now using the pandemic as a sole reason to extend. No need for that - they just have to accept the positions we have declared. If they are not - what point is there in an extension of any length?
It just emphasises that time pressure is helpful to the UK and not the EU.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/wor...singly-jaded-with-uk-s-brexit-drama-1.4246777
I also found a feeling of irritation and frustration from Hogan in this article - let alone a high level of hypocrisy - why will the UK representatives not just do as they were told like they did in 2016-2019!!!!!
Must be so annoying for them.....
I liked this comment from Gove:
“It is the case that we seek a zero-tariff, zero-quota arrangement,” he said.
“But if it is the case that we end up like CETA with tariffs on a small number of goods, we will regret that, we will think it is a missed opportunity, but if that is the price we have to pay, then there you go.”
https://www.thenational.scot/news/18430654.eu-hits-uk-making-brexit-proposals-in-airwaves/
The economy has been decimated by Coronavirus and could do without further shock so I am still forlornly hoping for a deal. One of my other concerns though is how many EU health workers will leave and impact what will be a pretty exhausted Health Service. Hopefully a great deal of effort will be made on retaining as many as we can.Agreed - and you are right end of June it is.
But, as just mentioned, this is now for the EU to resolve.
The UK has set out its positions in these areas and been clear that we will not move. So the EU needs to move or we may as well get on with implementation.
The only thing I can ever remember May getting right is her statement that No-Deal is better than a bad-deal
Trouble is - she had zero resolve
Tbh the fact that we somehow need the EU to give permission for us to use our own money, to bail out our own industry in our own country is just the sort of thing that makes me want out. Whether our govt actually has any desire to support /bail other is obviously another question.I'm still not sure whether you think the EU is going to cave. You like a comment from Gove that sounds like he thinks CETA is the default position but it obviously isn't, it's worse than that.
It might be an accident, but if you're still thinking these are normal times, we are in a crisis where (even if Barnier were desperate rather than merely exasperated) the chances of getting 27 states' approval for a CETA deal seem remote. There's a lot of unseemly rejoicing that the corporate EU response to the crisis has fragmented unity - but that may mean the chance of getting all states' approval for any deal is diminished.
Just in one area I'm familiar with, has the CAA got its costly duplicate licensing systems ready? Good job nobody will be flying anyway. But given the EU may allow member states to give continuing state aid to airlines, I wonder if BA's making thousands redundant while Spain bails out Iberia and Vueling is a sign of things to come (and not just in aviation).
Is it a new argument that the economy and the currency slumped after the referendum? That we've lost EU workers from the NHS? And from the fields?
That's not much of a reason for a Tory party that didn't believe in state aid.Tbh the fact that we somehow need the EU to give permission for us to use our own money, to bail out our own industry in our own country is just the sort of thing that makes me want out. Whether our govt actually has any desire to support /bail other is obviously another question.
Yep - the price of any limited extension needs to be - amongst other things:
Without that - what is the point - it is in the EU's hands and any failure will be down to them quite clearly.
- Agreement to the UK position on control of costal waters
- Abandonment of attempts to tie the UK to LPF constraints
I also would like a deal - but only a deal that is beneficial for the UK (as well as the EU) and does not compromise our status as an independent nation.The economy has been decimated by Coronavirus and could do without further shock so I am still forlornly hoping for a deal. One of my other concerns though is how many EU health workers will leave and impact what will be a pretty exhausted Health Service. Hopefully a great deal of effort will be made on retaining as many as we can.
I sincerely hope that you are correct re the health service. We will see.I also would like a deal - but only a deal that is beneficial for the UK (as well as the EU) and does not compromise our status as an independent nation.
It is there for the EU to conclude - they just need to get over themselves and stop expecting a deal that confirms perpetual hegemony for them.
We should all want to avoid that.
So it is there for the EU - they just need to get on with it - or get off the pot.
One of the significant benefits of Brexit is that there is no need for workers in key roles - such as health sector - to worry about being attractive to the UK. This is the case no matter which country around the world they are from - with the high levels of discrimination that is inherent to EU membership stripped away.
What's wrong with my last line??Lol at your last line.
We make a series of demands and then its the other sides fault if we don't get our way. This is heading for no deal. If there is a deal it will be one that suits the French / Dutch who have the significant liability when it comes to Customs checks at ports. They will want something done to avoid the mess of no deal just from a logistical perspective.
The Irish border is basically un-resolved and we are essentially careering toward the break up of the union. Well done Boris, great job.
What's wrong with my last line??
It is indeed the EU that are making unreasonable demands - how unsurprising that you try and turn that around to blame your own country.
Just think it through - and try to be objective...…...
One side is seeking to simply be an independent nation and operate that way. That side is seeking only the same construct of a TA that has been agreed elsewhere on a number of occasions with other independent nations.
The other side is demanding to have rights of control over the independent nation's key policies and essentially to be given perpetual hegemony over that independent nation.
Let's see if you can answer objectively......
Which one is being unreasonable?
Are you Barnier in disguise?As I said, this is heading for no deal or in your words we are seeking to simply be an independent nation.
The fact that we wont get the same trade deal as Canada is not unreasonable - to expect it is naive. Trade deals are done to boost trade but also protect trade, they are a mix or tariffs, regulations, taxes and customs agreements. There is a balance to each one and no two are the same. We are not Canada or Japan and therefore we are not going to get a copy paste deal, because none of these things are the same. And when it comes to the balance between promoting and protecting trade the EU have far more reason to take a cautious / protectionist approach given our proximity than countries half way round the world (and the low regulation approach that many assume the tories want to take). They are not going to give free access to the SM and let us undercut them on every other aspect of trade. Never going to happen.
To suggest this is the EU being unreasonable simply lacks intelligence. It is the quite obvious stance to take and what anyone would expect.
Are you Barnier in disguise?
You can it seems only look at things from the EU end of the telescope - from our (the UK's) end - the view is also that:
"We are not Canada or Japan and therefore we are not going to get a copy paste deal...…."
We are more import ant to the EU by far - and therefore should get a form of Canada ++ but we are not even seeking that.
But it is irrelevant - and your insults on intelligence simply demonstrate the paucity of your reasoning on this.
It is black and white - the UK has set out the basic principles that reflect functioning as an independent nation - state and the EU can opt to conclude a TA on that basis - or not.
So - as I said (and it did not take much intelligence to be spot on - there should be no consideration of a extension unless and until the EU agree to accommodate those principles. Such an extension would patently serve no purpose.
I support the UK wishing to be an independent nation and not an annexation of the EU - frankly I suggest that all (at least most) UK citizens do/should want that. When explained as plainly as that to the people of the UK, I suspect that you are likely to be an exception - and part of a small minority.
And in the event of a no deal what do you think would happen the day after the deadline? If you were a French chicken farmer or a German car maker and Tesco and VW in the UK placed orders for a 250,000 chickens and 250 VW Golfs the week after a no deal as they usually did, what do you think would happen? Genuine question.It is a bit like walking into a car dealership and demanding £20k trade in on an old banger. The fact i'm pointing out that your assessment of the deal is way off, it's naive and misinformed doesn't put me on the side of the car dealership. I'm just pointing out that you are wrong and however you dress it up the basic facts don't change - the EU will not create a back door to the single market.
This is heading to a no deal - that or a deal that mitigates the logistical / technical problems that no deal will cause at ports. Some sort of extension dressed up as a deal maybe. Limited in time perhaps as BJ can not be trusted. or no deal phased in so the mess at the ports can be avoided. There is nothing good in this outcome.
Which one is being unreasonable? The one that never wanted to be in this position?What's wrong with my last line??
It is indeed the EU that are making unreasonable demands - how unsurprising that you try and turn that around to blame your own country.
Just think it through - and try to be objective...…...
One side is seeking to simply be an independent nation and operate that way. That side is seeking only the same construct of a TA that has been agreed elsewhere on a number of occasions with other independent nations.
The other side is demanding to have rights of control over the independent nation's key policies and essentially to be given perpetual hegemony over that independent nation.
Let's see if you can answer objectively......
Which one is being unreasonable?