Another new Brexit thread

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mcfc1632 said:
Interesting stuff, for completeness though - given that the article that you have quoted as comments such as:

"Both sides know they're going to have to move towards each other, but who goes first? To this end Barnier and EU trade chief Phil Hogan issued come get me pleas to UK last week with the clear message 'we'll compromise if you do'.

and:

".....Much of the public row on LPF has focussed on EU's out there state aid demands which have always looked untenable. EU climbdown on that could create space for UK to up its offer."

It might have been appropriate for you to note something along the lines of:

"We will not see movement from the EU unless and until they are faced with the prospect of a viable walk-away option – and the political will to use it”

This was always true - and has been proven to be months ago. But I am pleased to see, as you are quoting this article, that you are now also gaining an understaning.
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Good grief. This morning you were worried about Britain compromising, now any sign of both sides comprising and you're back to an EU climbdown (so long as the elected PM leaves it to unelected officials).

Who is running this country? Swapping the Brussels bureaucrats for our own shadier versions. And you know the Brussels bureaucrats are better because according to Leavers they always stitched us up (presumably including the Brits working for the EU).

Seriously, do you know what Frost's brief is? Is he really expecting unicorns? Is it a Cummings-drafted crash and burn policy? Or is he perhaps "following the economics" (on fish, farming, finance and factories)?

In case I haven't got your attention yet on the nitty-gritty of our predicament, can you tell us anything about fish, farming, finance and factories?
 
BlueAnorak said:
Just Remainers continually trying to keep us attached.
Transition ends on the 31st of December.
No deal will be made that surrenders UK sovereignty to the EU. Tory MPs know it will be the end for them if such a deal is made.
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Interesting to see the Remainers indulging in Revision - again

It does not seem so long ago that they were all giddy about how the omnipotent EU would simply never budge on anything and the UK would have to bow down and accept being tied to EU regulations for ever more

Oh - how they giggled when I used to point out the absolute truth that:

"We will not see movement from the EU unless and until they are faced with the prospect of a viable walk-away option – and the political will to use it”

and yet there was proof of this truth last autumn and here we are seeing it proven true again - but they cannot man up and accept that - they need to prevaricate and dissemble - lest they lose face it seems

And it is easy to see why the situation has become as it is - and the blame is at the door of Remainers. Of course our Remainer colleagues cannot face up to any truth that does not big up the EU and belittle the UK, but for we Leavers its is worth pointing out the simple truth(s) - and right up there is the issue planning for a viable no-deal and having the political will to use it.

2016 - the UK undertook a major democratic exercise to determine whether it should Remain or Leave the EU - and, by a clear majority. the UK electorate voted to Leave.

2017 - Autumn 2019 The EU representatives had the delightful sight of seeing that the UK PM and the person that she charged with representing the UK in negotiations were Remainers and that they were committed to undermining the mandate that they were given by the electorate.........…….
 
...............….So, following 3 years of May/Robbins kowtowing to Barnier's team on every sector and willing to enshrine the UK as a vassal state under EU regulations we end up with a WA that is loaded with bias in the EU's favour and one that would legally commit the UK to be under EU control for generations to come - probably in perpetuity.

Of course the jewel in the crown of that capitulation was the unfettered backstop - a poisonous device that would not only ensure that the EU could exercise comprehensive controls over the UK, but that these controls would be subject to any and every change that the EU decided to make at any future point to further milk the docile UK cow.

Oh - how good was the EU's position in early 2019?? They were on the brink of achieving: ​
  • removal of the UK from the EU and therefore an end to any occasional inconveniences that could impede the drive towards full integration and
  • subjugation of the UK under EU controls in perpetuity with legally binding instruments that would allow them to forever change and adapt the controls as they saw fit
Oh - how the Remainers on here were creaming themselves - oh how they giggled when I pointed our occasionally that this situation had developed because:

"We will not see movement from the EU unless and until they are faced with the prospect of a viable walk-away option – and the political will to use it”

and neither of those requirements had been developed by the UK.

I used to be baffled about why UK citizens would be so exultant about seeing their nation demeaned in this manner and set up to be a vassal state on much degraded terms - but then I realised that this is a football forum and they are just acting in a limited thinking tribal manner.

It seems that, for some, being winners of a debate on a football forum is far more important than the health and future of the nation you live in...…..

So there we were in Autumn 2019 and at last the UK, against all odds, became to be led by a government committed to delivering the UK actually Leaving the EU in a meaningful manner. But they then had to either start afresh with negotiations or unpick the worst aspects of the EU biased WA that the hapless May/Robbins had produced.

Since then across the Remainer establishment and the EU and indeed on here, it has been delightful to see the continuous bleating of those that had thought that they had 'won' - then had the title snatched away out of the blue and against all the odds. When I see some of the desperate bleating on here I am minded of the famous picture of 'Phil Jones's face' back in 2012 when the horrible realisation was sinking in.

Getting rid of the poisonous unfettered backstop was a major coup - I smiled when so many Remainers on here were so desperate to deny this, whilst others clearly did not even understand it's purpose. It follows that the compromise on N. I. was entirely due to the previous capitulation of May/Robbins - but Remainers cannot allow themselves to consider the truth of that.

Since then and following the GE, there has been evidence that the UK have simply decided to do what was needed to get the fuck out, dump the bollocks of the PD and seek to achieve minimum viable compliance with the WA - aka giving priority to the UK's interests. We should all wish our representatives well.

Let's just hope that we do see the level of resolve from Johnson to let the professionals complete their job - I am still nervous in that regard.

Remainers can take heart however - they may be discomfited nowadays, but - thanks to the resolve of Leavers - they, their families and future generations will be able to enjoy a more prosperous future.​
 
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I think a government of national Unity is required for this now as it's quite obvious the current government couldn't organize a piss up in Witherspoon's.

This could include former remainers but on the understanding that we are definitely leaving. Above all we need sensible and mature politicians managing this not the mad fuckers normally associated with Brexit.

Unfortunately it won't happen as the press and a large percentage of the population put this idiotic crew in charge.
 
More developments on the Nissan front:
https://www.irishtimes.com/business...exit-talks-fail-to-agree-trade-deal-1.4269505
So this is the COO saying:

“You know we are the number one carmaker in the UK and we want to continue. We are committed.

“Having said that, if we are not getting the current tariffs, it’s not our intention but the business will not be sustainable."

So you can either:

a) see this as an example of a global company COO seeking to secure the best outcome(s) in trading conditions for their products in a key target market.

Afterall, why would that Nissan executive not wish for a 'cake and eat it' scenario for his company and make some statements to seek to influence the outcome

or

b) see the statement as an opportunity to gleefully make fun of any prospect of risks to the livelihoods of fellow UK citizens because it makes you feel good and the opportunity to score a point cannot be resisted

Each to their own individual character based choice I say
 
mcfc1632 said:
More developments on the Nissan front:
https://www.irishtimes.com/business...exit-talks-fail-to-agree-trade-deal-1.4269505
So this is the COO saying:

“You know we are the number one carmaker in the UK and we want to continue. We are committed.

“Having said that, if we are not getting the current tariffs, it’s not our intention but the business will not be sustainable."

So you can either:

a) see this as an example of a global company COO seeking to secure the best outcome(s) in trading conditions for their products in a key target market.

Afterall, why would that Nissan executive not wish for a 'cake and eat it' scenario for his company and make some statements to seek to influence the outcome

or

b) see the statement as an opportunity to gleefully make fun of any prospect of risks to the livelihoods of fellow UK citizens because it makes you feel good and the opportunity to score a point cannot be resisted

Each to their own individual character based choice I say
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We covered this point last week ... and were reassured by Brexiteers that 'everything would be fine, and Nissan were going nowhere' if you remember.
 
Ifwecouldjust....... said:
We covered this point last week ... and were reassured by Brexiteers that 'everything would be fine, and Nissan were going nowhere' if you remember.
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No you did/were not

Do you apply the same diligence to reading posts as you do the articles that you link?

You may well have seen articles being linked and suggestions/comments being made of the 'definitive' decisions being announced - such as re Barcelona.

You may well have read observations of how those announcements demonstrated that previous Remainer views about Nissan's intentions were groundless bollocks and

You may even have read speculation of what those announcements would/could mean for the operating/production plans - and perhaps that it could lead to Nissan retaining production in the UK

You would also have read a number of posts from Remainers - strangely disappointed in what could be possible good news for fellow UK citizens

and - today - you are reading/making Remainer posts that are seeking to use a seemingly straightforward company statement as an opportunity to be pleased at the potential for future job losses for fellow UK citizens

It is just the difference in the mindsets of Leavers and Remainers
 
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BobKowalski said:
BBC article on the future of Sunderland. The significant change is that it is now Renault’s decision to make and for Sunderland to work there needs to be a deal with the EU, but that has been the case for the last four years. Puts pressure on the UK to do a deal.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52900528
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A simple truth that has been there all along. And if our biggest manufacturing plants are unsustainable and are shut down what happens to the small ones that supply them, and what happens to the small businesses in the communities that are dominated by them.

As I have said before any PM who takes us down this road will be gone within 6 months of trying to implement it, it would cost a fortune and decimate the economy. Yet brexiteers think this is some sort of stick we can beat the EU with....
 
BobKowalski said:
BBC article on the future of Sunderland. The significant change is that it is now Renault’s decision to make and for Sunderland to work there needs to be a deal with the EU, but that has been the case for the last four years. Puts pressure on the UK to do a deal.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52900528
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Sky News just reporting that Bank of England Governor tells banks to step up preparations for a no deal Brexit.


  • No trade deals signed that are better than the ones we currently have (only 40 signed anyway)
  • Worst recession for 300 years looming (Sunak words not mine)
  • The only country in the world trading purely on WTO rules
  • imposition of substantial tariffs
  • Sterling set for a 'fraught few months' (JP Morgans words not mine);
  • Tens of Billions of soured loans expected to materialise.
  • Covid19 still impacting
  • Unemployment likely to be at its highest for ten years.



Sunny uplands and Unicorns are that way------------------------------------------------------->
 
Gaudion M said:
A simple truth that has been there all along. And if our biggest manufacturing plants are unsustainable and are shut down what happens to the small ones that supply them, and what happens to the small businesses in the communities that are dominated by them.

As I have said before any PM who takes us down this road will be gone within 6 months of trying to implement it, it would cost a fortune and decimate the economy. Yet brexiteers think this is some sort of stick we can beat the EU with....
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Ties in with Cummings statement the other day that he would only be around for the next six months and then go

Johnson will be off to his place of birth , no doubt having squared it all off with Trump.

The rest of us will be left to pick over the bones.
 
Gaudion M said:
A simple truth that has been there all along. And if our biggest manufacturing plants are unsustainable and are shut down what happens to the small ones that supply them, and what happens to the small businesses in the communities that are dominated by them.

As I have said before any PM who takes us down this road will be gone within 6 months of trying to implement it, it would cost a fortune and decimate the economy. Yet brexiteers think this is some sort of stick we can beat the EU with....
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They also think we’ll be thanking them for taking us down this road!
 
BobKowalski said:
BBC article on the future of Sunderland. The significant change is that it is now Renault’s decision to make and for Sunderland to work there needs to be a deal with the EU, but that has been the case for the last four years. Puts pressure on the UK to do a deal.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52900528
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every one I know and every one I have met round here who works at NISSAN or in the supply chain have feared this since the day after the referendum result. There was a brief glimmer of hope a week ago but I still maintain that the No Deal scenario decimates the UK car assembly industry. Its even more of an issue now because if Covid -19 affects sales badly - they were almost non-existent in April and unemployed folk don't get company cars - there will be a huge cutting back of supply. That means you need fewer plants, you consolidate production. I'd imagine the French govt would be keen to see vehicles produced in France to support employment and their economy. It just happens that the French govt are heavily involved on the board of Renault.........as they are on the board of PSA who owns Vauxhall....
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
Really pleased for you Vic. You must have been gutted when there was good news about this a few weeks ago.
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There wasn’t. It was just spun that way. Sunderland’s fate is in the hands of Renault which the French Govt has a 15% stake in and has made a several billion euro bailout payment to Renault and others conditional ie car production is to be increased in France. That Renault was now in charge of ‘European’ decisions was the most significant part of Nissan’s press conference, during which Sunderland didn’t even get a mention.

The good news is that Sunderland is leverage for France and the EU in negotiations and pushes the UK into compromises on a deal. We all want a deal right?
 
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