Another new Brexit thread

[Vic]

I agree with your views - although I would swap compromise for capitulate

No matter how Remainers seem to feel (unjustifiably) aggrieved - I fear that it will be those seeking to genuinely leave the EU that will be left with a sense of betrayal

We've left, genuinely. No split infinitive will change that.

So Remainers will feel aggrieved and Leavers will feel betrayed.

Hurrah for Brexit.

 

[Vic]

I see matters in quite a black and white manner:

The primary consideration is that should the UK remain in the EU then the UK will - in the medium- long term - suffer greatly and be locked into the inevitable terminal decline..

Should the UK remain? That seems black and white. We've left.

The will of the people has been served.

80 seat majority on the basis of a WA and PD explicit about level playing field and no reduction of standards and still you want your own personal shade of grey.

No deal is better than a bad deal, no deal is infinitely worse than what we have now, MB wants EFTA, you want unicorns, leavers wanted fifty shades of Brexit, I wanted (having lost) what was promised, or to do the sensible thing and let the people change their mind.

I've put up with a lot of smug crap from you (and silence when you don't want to lose an argument). Forgive me if I don't empathise with a complaint that the lying buffoon who got us here may be desperate to avoid the economic disaster of a no deal Brexit that he's never promised nor wanted.

 

[BobKowalski]

Remember when we were going to head into space and build a ‘world beating’ system to rival the Galileo satellite system? FT reporting that it’s to be ‘scaled back’ which is code for it ain’t happening. Not that we ever thought it would but nice to see everything is going to plan. And by plan I mean down the Brexit toilet.

 

[BobKowalski]

See my post directly after yours

The EU will want Johnson directly involved - they are professionals and he is a shallow buffoon - they will run rings around him if he is not held on a very tight leash

He’s the fucking PM. There is no fucking leash. As with the Withdrawal Agreement it will be Johnson’s baby. Johnson agreed to an internal customs border. Johnson agreed that NI would remain subject to EU Single Market and Custom Union rules. Johnson agreed that we would no longer have unilateral sovereign control within our own territory.

It will be Johnson who agrees a ‘deal in principle’ that will keep the country running and under which we spend the next decade trying not to implement what we actually agreed, as opposed to what we think we agreed, and trying to negotiate back the access to the European market we will have lost.

We will though claim a mighty victory and in addition declare the country ‘virus free’ because pretending we have done something rather than actually doing it is how we roll these days.

 

[Vic]

Remember when we were going to head into space and build a ‘world beating’ system to rival the Galileo satellite system? FT reporting that it’s to be ‘scaled back’ which is code for it ain’t happening. Not that we ever thought it would but nice to see everything is going to plan. And by plan I mean down the Brexit toilet.

Can we negotiate access to Galileo in exchange for fish quotas?

 

[BobKowalski]

Can we negotiate access to Galileo in exchange for fish quotas?

Probably. Apparently the new plan is to bail out a bankrupt US company and go for a ‘low tech’ version ie ‘cheap’. These ‘satellites’ would operate in a very low orbit. I suspect they are referring to hot air balloons.

 

[west didsblue]

Having skimmed over the Brexit bullshitter’s posts, does he really want our future trading arrangement negotiated without involvement by the PM? How the fuck does that work? Many of the Brexiters were always deluded but this is on another fucking level. Is he expecting the negotiator to just lie to the PM and ignore his terms of reference? Fucking madness.
Maybe I got it wrong but I can’t face reading through that waffle carefully.

 

[Saddleworth2]

80 seat majority on the basis of a WA and PD explicit about level playing field and no reduction of standards and still you want your own personal shade of grey.

This is the key thing for me. That is his mandate and that was his promise. He needs to get on and execute that.

 

[mcfc1632]

He’s the fucking PM. There is no fucking leash. As with the Withdrawal Agreement it will be Johnson’s baby. Johnson agreed to an internal customs border. Johnson agreed that NI would remain subject to EU Single Market and Custom Union rules. Johnson agreed that we would no longer have unilateral sovereign control within our own territory.

It will be Johnson who agrees a ‘deal in principle’ that will keep the country running and under which we spend the next decade trying not to implement what we actually agreed, as opposed to what we think we agreed, and trying to negotiate back the access to the European market we will have lost.

We will though claim a mighty victory and in addition declare the country ‘virus free’ because pretending we have done something rather than actually doing it is how we roll these days.

You and other Remainers are so utterly inconsistent in what you post in your desperation to make cheap points.

You and others actually twist so much what others say that - apart from being a deceitful thing to do - it explains why people generally do not bother engaging with the continuous disingenuous nature of Remainer posts which is the regular fayre on here - peppered with short snide comments from those unable to even step up to the challenge of writing more than a sentence or two.

So, let's consider your 'points'...……………..

I am saying that Johnson is a shallow buffoon - are you disagreeing? I would have thought not because I am sure that I have seen a plethora of posts from you on various threads suggesting such a view...…..

So - you are in fact agreeing with me - so that demonstrates a lot of your post to be disingenuous bollocks - why (repeatedly) do that??

and

I say that I do not want him involved in the negotiations because the EU have professionals and will run rings around him -

are you disagreeing?
I would have thought not because in your post you have said:

"......Johnson agreed to an internal customs border. Johnson agreed that NI would remain subject to EU Single Market and Custom Union rules. Johnson agreed that we would no longer have unilateral sovereign control within our own territory...……..."

which provides plenty of substance as to why I should not want him directly involved in and therefore - if you are supporting the best interests of the UK, rather than trying to score cheap points on a football forum - you are in fact agreeing with me again!!

And your bollocks about him having to be involved because he is PM is just - well bollocks - everyday of every week professional people undertake negotiations on behalf of the government with the appropriate accountable officer turning up at the signing ceremony to commit the government to the resultant agreement

With Leavers generally choosing not to engage with you - you guys just seem to gather each day for - depending on if there is evidence of bad news for the UK or not that day - either a group wank over UK problems or at least a group moan about why Leavers are not engaging with you.

Now - I wonder why that would be???

Why would sensible and objective people not wish to engage with others that twist their words in a deceitful manner and others that only have snide comments to offer??​

 

[mcfc1632]

Having skimmed over the Brexit bullshitter’s posts, does he really want our future trading arrangement negotiated without involvement by the PM? How the fuck does that work? Many of the Brexiters were always deluded but this is on another fucking level. Is he expecting the negotiator to just lie to the PM and ignore his terms of reference? Fucking madness.
Maybe I got it wrong but I can’t face reading through that waffle carefully.

You don't fool anyone but yourself you know

We all know that you forensically pore over every word hoping to find something to attack

Generally, like in this post, you just post because:

a) you simply have an obsessive neeeeed for me and

b) the need is so compelling that you cannot stop yourself from the repeated self-embarrassment of showing that you don't have a clue - as this post again demonstrates

 

[dave_blue12]

It seems the people are confused. This is Brexit.

 

[journolud]

Probably. Apparently the new plan is to bail out a bankrupt US company and go for a ‘low tech’ version ie ‘cheap’. These ‘satellites’ would operate in a very low orbit. I suspect they are referring to hot air balloons.

Any thoughts where they could get the hot air from to fuel them?

 

[west didsblue]

You don't fool anyone but yourself you know

We all know that you forensically pore over every word hoping to find something to attack

Generally, like in this post, you just post because:

a) you simply have an obsessive neeeeed for me and

b) the need is so compelling that you cannot stop yourself from the repeated self-embarrassment of showing that you don't have a clue - as this post again demonstrates

Looks like I was right.

 

[west didsblue]

Any thoughts where they could get the hot air from to fuel them?

There’s more than enough on this thread from a certain poster.

 

[BobKowalski]

You and other Remainers are so utterly inconsistent in what you post in your desperation to make cheap points.

You and others actually twist so much what others say that - apart from being a deceitful thing to do - it explains why people generally do not bother engaging with the continuous disingenuous nature of Remainer posts which is the regular fayre on here - peppered with short snide comments from those unable to even step up to the challenge of writing more than a sentence or two.

So, let's consider your 'points'...……………..

I am saying that Johnson is a shallow buffoon - are you disagreeing? I would have thought not because I am sure that I have seen a plethora of posts from you on various threads suggesting such a view...…..

So - you are in fact agreeing with me - so that demonstrates a lot of your post to be disingenuous bollocks - why (repeatedly) do that??

and

I say that I do not want him involved in the negotiations because the EU have professionals and will run rings around him -

are you disagreeing?
I would have thought not because in your post you have said:

"......Johnson agreed to an internal customs border. Johnson agreed that NI would remain subject to EU Single Market and Custom Union rules. Johnson agreed that we would no longer have unilateral sovereign control within our own territory...……..."

which provides plenty of substance as to why I should not want him directly involved in and therefore - if you are supporting the best interests of the UK, rather than trying to score cheap points on a football forum - you are in fact agreeing with me again!!

And your bollocks about him having to be involved because he is PM is just - well bollocks - everyday of every week professional people undertake negotiations on behalf of the government with the appropriate accountable officer turning up at the signing ceremony to commit the government to the resultant agreement

With Leavers generally choosing not to engage with you - you guys just seem to gather each day for - depending on if there is evidence of bad news for the UK or not that day - either a group wank over UK problems or at least a group moan about why Leavers are not engaging with you.

Now - I wonder why that would be???

Why would sensible and objective people not wish to engage with others that twist their words in a deceitful manner and others that only have snide comments to offer??​

Your post has less substance than a pool of vomit.

Some ‘inconvenient truths’. Johnson is PM. The PM sets the mandate for our negotiations and it is the PM who will ultimately decide what the future relationship will be. That the PM is a moron and has surrounded himself with even bigger morons (with one exception) is unfortunate, but it’s where we are and I have little sympathy given you morons voted for the fucking moron.

For the record I couldn’t give a shit whether I engage with leavers or not. If leavers stopped posting steaming piles of horse manure I wouldn’t have to engage at all, but you do so here I am, saddled (to continue the equine theme) with the unhappy task.

Finally your last para of ‘Why would sensible and objective people (not) wish to engage with others that twist their words in a deceitful manner and others that only have snide comments to offer??’ pretty much describes every post you make. It is such a masterclass in ‘lack of self awareness’ that I shall always treasure it.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Your post has less substance than a pool of vomit.

Some ‘inconvenient truths’. Johnson is PM. The PM sets the mandate for our negotiations and it is the PM who will ultimately decide what the future relationship will be. That the PM is a moron and has surrounded himself with even bigger morons (with one exception) is unfortunate, but it’s where we are and I have little sympathy given you morons voted for the fucking moron.

For the record I couldn’t give a shit whether I engage with leavers or not. If leavers stopped posting steaming piles of horse manure I wouldn’t have to engage at all, but you do so here I am, saddled (to continue the equine theme) with the unhappy task.

Finally your last para of ‘Why would sensible and objective people (not) wish to engage with others that twist their words in a deceitful manner and others that only have snide comments to offer??’ pretty much describes every post you make. It is such a masterclass in ‘lack of self awareness’ that I shall always treasure it.

I think you provide a valuable service bob and would like to thank you on behalf of everyone who voted Leave for putting us right. I know it's frustrating casting your pearls among the swine, but keep it up lad. Xxx

 

[Vic]

...And your bollocks about him having to be involved because he is PM is just - well bollocks - everyday of every week professional people undertake negotiations on behalf of the government with the appropriate accountable officer turning up at the signing ceremony to commit the government to the resultant agreement...

I suppose the professional people negotiating on behalf of the government includes the guys who gave contracts to shipping companies without ships, PPE suppliers without PPE, etc etc.

Are you really saying that in getting us away from the undemocratic, unelected bureaucracy of Brussels you want our fate to be decided by undemocratic, unelected bureaucrats of Whitehall?

Personally, I'd like Parliament to be involved but our sovereign Parliament has chosen to leave it to unelected bureaucrats - now are they acting entirely as free agents with no accountability even to the PM or do they actually have a brief? It seems even on this bit of detail you're still in Cakeland.

 

[mcfc1632]

Your post has less substance than a pool of vomit.

Some ‘inconvenient truths’. Johnson is PM. The PM sets the mandate for our negotiations and it is the PM who will ultimately decide what the future relationship will be. That the PM is a moron and has surrounded himself with even bigger morons (with one exception) is unfortunate, but it’s where we are and I have little sympathy given you morons voted for the fucking moron.

For the record I couldn’t give a shit whether I engage with leavers or not. If leavers stopped posting steaming piles of horse manure I wouldn’t have to engage at all, but you do so here I am, saddled (to continue the equine theme) with the unhappy task.

Finally your last para of ‘Why would sensible and objective people (not) wish to engage with others that twist their words in a deceitful manner and others that only have snide comments to offer??’ pretty much describes every post you make. It is such a masterclass in ‘lack of self awareness’ that I shall always treasure it.

Well that's me told!!!

FFS - that is a withering and robust comeback - and soooo full of substance

Well actually - its not - it is in fact full of bollocks that only reinforces your lack of understanding of how these things work - yet so many lemmings on here look to you as if you are some form of BM James O'Brien - must make you feel good?.

Of course the PM is head of the executive and can - certainly with an 80 seat majority - pretty much do what the fuck he likes. So you have a tiny bit of accuracy in your post - but then it falls badly away.

PMs come and go so do Secretaries of State - and yes they have executive accountability but they generally operate through organised groups - department's, agencies, other PSBs and selected professionsals.

Yes they provide input to the ToRs and are involved in the governance - but - having set the intended outcomes they really should leave the execution of negotiations to professionals.

It is quite quaint that you think that the PM (any PM) sits and negotiates detail. Quaint but also embarrassing for you I suggest.

No - as I said earlier - the EU leaders will wish to get Johnson personally involved because he is a buffoon and can be made to concede important matters because he does not understand the consequences.

As a Leaver I just hope that Cummings and others have got him under control to remain resolute on the issues of governance (no ECJ jurisdiction), LPF - nothing that can control our key policies and prevent the UK being competitive and of course fishing.

Re fishing - some of the Remainers on here have been a source of quite a few moments of merriment as they bang on about what a small percentage of the economy is based on fishing - or they bleat on about the lack of a fleet etc.

Such naivety and lack of understanding - again quaint is quite a good description of their utter lack of comprehension of how to negotiate.

Well - they would be quite quaint - in a pleasant and engaging manner if some if them were not so snide and spiteful in their style.

Oh - you say that you "..... couldn’t give a shit whether I engage with leavers or not......."

and yet - here you are;-)

Hey - I am just 'holding up a mirror to you' - if what you see fucks you off that is on you

 

[Vic]

Well that's me told!!!

FFS - that is a withering and robust comeback - and soooo full of substance

Well actually - its not - it is in fact full of bollocks that only reinforces your lack of understanding of how these things work - yet so many lemmings on here look to you as if you are some form of BM James O'Brien - must make you feel good?.

Of course the PM is head of the executive and can - certainly with an 80 seat majority - pretty much do what the fuck he likes. So you have a tiny bit of accuracy in your post - but then it falls badly away.

PMs come and go so do Secretaries of State - and yes they have executive accountability but they generally operate through organised groups - department's, agencies, other PSBs and selected professionsals.

Yes they provide input to the ToRs and are involved in the governance - but - having set the intended outcomes they really should leave the execution of negotiations to professionals.

It is quite quaint that you think that the PM (any PM) sits and negotiates detail. Quaint but also embarrassing for you I suggest.

No - as I said earlier - the EU leaders will wish to get Johnson personally involved because he is a buffoon and can be made to concede important matters because he does not understand the consequences.

As a Leaver I just hope that Cummings and others have got him under control to remain resolute on the issues of governance (no ECJ jurisdiction), LPF - nothing that can control our key policies and prevent the UK being competitive and of course fishing.

Re fishing - some of the Remainers on here have been a source of quite a few moments of merriment as they bang on about what a small percentage of the economy is based on fishing - or they bleat on about the lack of a fleet etc.

Such naivety and lack of understanding - again quaint is quite a good description of their utter lack of comprehension of how to negotiate.

Well - they would be quite quaint - in a pleasant and engaging manner if some if them were not so snide and spiteful in their style.

Oh - you say that you "..... couldn’t give a shit whether I engage with leavers or not......."

and yet - here you are;-)

Hey - I am just 'holding up a mirror to you' - if what you see fucks you off that is on you

Well, he's mentioned fish but from that I've no idea what he thinks about what benefit the UK will get from being "an independent coastal nation". If it is such a small bit of the economy (I can't even work out if he agrees about that) why are we so determined to big it up as an issue if we can't easily expand the fleet (except with foreign-owned boats and foreign crew)?

I'm not hopeful of a cogent response, or about why over a million people have signed a petition to put into law rules that prevent food being imported to the UK produced in ways that would be illegal here.

https://www.campaigns.nfuonline.com/page/56262/petition/1

 

[mcfc1632]

Well, he's mentioned fish but from that I've no idea what he thinks about what benefit the UK will get from being "an independent coastal nation. If it is such a small bit of the economy (I can't even work out if he agrees about that) why are we so determined to big it up as an issue if we can't easily expand the fleet (except with foreign-owned boats and foreign crew)?

I'm not hopeful of a cogent response, or about why over a million people have signed a petition to put into law rules that prevent food being imported to the UK produced in ways that would be illegal here.

https://www.campaigns.nfuonline.com/page/56262/petition/1

I try not to respond to you - but that post has made me LOL and break my pledge

Here's a cogent response to that demonstration of an utter lack of any understanding of how to negotiate……..

You simply haven't even got the rudimentary basics of a fucking clue about negotiations - and that post is (yet another) clear demonstration of that fact

How can you not understand something that is so obvious - ROFL - and you have some Remainer colleagues that express the same level of 'understanding'

If I was as conceited as Bob I might consider doing some missionary work - perhaps if it was another poster

Bless