Another new Brexit thread

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Japan isn’t in the EU.

The six weeks is a consequence of the UK deadline. Solution. Drop the end of year deadline and the UK can then sit down with Japan and negotiate a more ambitious and coherent trade deal. The six months is the source of the problem. The six weeks merely the bastard offspring sired by hubris.

I'm aware Japan (like the UK) is not in the EU. It's your inability to see anything but virtue in the EU and in this case Japan's position, and wrongdoing by the UK that is a form of mental illness /delusion. There probably needs Tobermory give and take on both sides.

 

[west didsblue]

You dont have any solutions Bob other than for the UK to capitulate at every corner and ultimately remain in the EU.

Thankfully we now know that isn't an option.

Thanks for your insight into our trade negotiations though even if they are shall we say.... a tad one sided and biased at times.

I’ll give you a solution.
Don’t let our current deal with Japan expire on 31 December, giving us a bit more time to negotiate a comprehensive replacement without a damaging gap.

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

Japan isn’t in the EU.

The six weeks is a consequence of the UK deadline. Solution. Drop the end of year deadline and the UK can then sit down with Japan and negotiate a more ambitious and coherent trade deal. The six months is the source of the problem. The six weeks merely the bastard offspring sired by hubris.

The timing of our 'true' exit does seem to be an issue. Maybe its because it will all go to shit when that happens and things that will need to happen in the run in will confirm it will go to shit. So here we are on the edge of making a decision but seemingly unwilling to crack on.

 

[BobKowalski]

You dont have any solutions Bob other than for the UK to capitulate at every corner and ultimately remain in the EU.

Thankfully we now know that isn't an option.

Thanks for your insight into our trade negotiations though even if they are shall we say.... a tad one sided and biased at times.

I gave you a solution. Don’t impose deadlines on yourself that are detrimental to your interests and lead to sub-optimal outcomes.

It’s not complicated.

 

[Vic]

I gave you a solution. Don’t impose deadlines on yourself that are detrimental to your interests and lead to sub-optimal outcomes.

It’s not complicated.

According to the cheese man you have to be mad to understand the problem.

 

[BobKowalski]

I'm aware Japan (like the UK) is not in the EU. It's your inability to see anything but virtue in the EU and in this case Japan's position, and wrongdoing by the UK that is a form of mental illness /delusion. There probably needs Tobermory give and take on both sides.

I am agnostic on virtue. I see what is there and tell you what I see. I like Swiss chocolate. There will be give and take on both sides. But we keep manoeuvring ourselves into positions where we give more than we take. It’s dumb.

 

[BobKowalski]

The timing of our 'true' exit does seem to be an issue. Maybe its because it will all go to shit when that happens and things that will need to happen in the run in will confirm it will go to shit. So here we are on the edge of making a decision but seemingly unwilling to crack on.

It’s beyond stupid. Trouble is Brexiteers think this deadline tactic won them a resounding victory in round one so there is nothing on earth that will convince then it won’t work in round two.

We are the Wile E. Coyote of Trade Negotiations.

 

[west didsblue]

I'm aware Japan (like the UK) is not in the EU. It's your inability to see anything but virtue in the EU and in this case Japan's position, and wrongdoing by the UK that is a form of mental illness /delusion. There probably needs Tobermory give and take on both sides.

Not sure what the wombles have got to do with it.

 

[Vic]

I was expecting mcfc1632 to tell us how little we know about negotiating but I think even he is stumped on this.

"The person setting the deadline is counting on the fact that it’s human nature to believe deadlines are real. It is in your best interest to be sceptical. If you decide that the deadline is real, determine where it comes from, whether an extension is possible, and what the consequences would be of missing the deadline." The trouble here is that the people setting the deadline (us) know the consequences could be dire (for us) but the other side (not just the EU but any other country we want a deal with) knows that too. They also know it may damage them but, in the long run, damage to the UK economy will lead to benefit for them (including those German car manufacturers). Now I realise that for some people this sounds like mental derangement, but to be fair I have always wondered about the sanity of some proponents of Brexit. Brexit can seem to be a sort of collective basket weaving.

 

[BlueAnorak]

I see a lot of angst from Remainers as the deadline for asking for an extension approaches.
Here's a tune for you:

 

[mcfc1632]

Not me, have always said the longer we go without actually leaving* the better. I would welcome an extension, the longer the better.


*awaiting someone telling me we left in January 2020.

At least some honesty from a Remainer for a change

As I have said before - the desire for an extension is the Remainer need to keep open the prospect of the UK 'not really/genuinely' leaving the EU

That is what the EU wish as well.....

Given where we are in June 2020, the EU's likely outcomes sought are:

Ideal - Extensions can keep being agreed until eventually there is a GE

Realistic - The UK is locked into tight controls through which the EU can ensure that we do not progress successfully and through which they can ensure that the UK does not present a competitive threat

Fallback - There is a seeming 'compromise' deal which allows both parties to claim 'victory'.

I found this recent wording of concern:

"A deal could declare that the UK has the sovereign right to move away from the EU’s level playing field should it so choose. But if it did, the EU would have the right to impose tariffs on UK goods."

That smacks of typical Johnson capitulation to me. It would allow him to claim the gloss of independence whilst the UK remain tightly 'aligned' - indefinitely

The next months are going to be quite tense

 

[mcfc1632]

You lot.....what are you fucking like honestly?

Do any of you have no shame?

Bob last night as well revelling in Japan wanting to negotiate on their terms.

Welcome to the world of negotiations finally chaps.

Really naïve stuff from the 'Remainer experts' - aka desperate

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

I can see where Brian Cox gets this view. I posted similar a view days ago. No deal is just unworkable without years of careful / detailed planning and a level of competence in government that we are a million miles from. The deadline is of their own making and an extension doesn't change the lack of competence or nous to generate a better outcome, in short if they extend they get flak from the tory press and still end up in the same place further down the line. A half baked BRINO deal which is engineered to provide maximum sovereignty/independence spin is the least worst option for tories. I can see a lot being unhappy but at some point the deadlock is going to have to break. Maybe if he sacked Cummings at the same time that would help his cause.

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

Is it possible just to have a discussion on the future of the U.K. economy, should we leave the EU without any sort of trade deal?
The major countries/trading blocs of the world are, undoubtedly, about to become more and more insular and protectionist, following the Covid 19 pandemic. The signs were that this was happening anyway but it will have an increased momentum with mass unemployment now likely and countries attempting to become more self-reliant, under pressure from their citizens.
We’ve just encountered a virus that every human being has been susceptible to and every country decided to try to fight it on their own. If ever there was an opportunity for co-operation on a global scale that was it and it didn’t happen which suggests that international, barrier and tariff free trade, is a hugely unlikely, in the near term at least.

I’m not trying to rerun the referendum, I’m not in thrall to the EU, I’m not being a sore loser and I don’t need to get over it. I am, on the other hand, somewhat worried about the countries economic prospects and am curious to hear how we might go about making our way in the world, if anyone has any thoughts.

 

[west didsblue]

I can see where Brian Cox gets this view. I posted similar a view days ago. No deal is just unworkable without years of careful / detailed planning and a level of competence in government that we are a million miles from. The deadline is of their own making and an extension doesn't change the lack of competence or nous to generate a better outcome, in short if they extend they get flak from the tory press and still end up in the same place further down the line. A half baked BRINO deal which is engineered to provide maximum sovereignty/independence spin is the least worst option for tories. I can see a lot being unhappy but at some point the deadlock is going to have to break. Maybe if he sacked Cummings at the same time that would help his cause.

If he’s correct, then it’s vassalage for the UK. Unfortunately it’s the least worst option compared to the others. It’s shit but it’s what many of us warned would happen.

 

[blueinsa]

I gave you a solution. Don’t impose deadlines on yourself that are detrimental to your interests and lead to sub-optimal outcomes.

It’s not complicated.

You have zero idea as to the outcome Bob, none of us do as yet.

Meanwhile standing up for yourself and your interests in negotiations is the norm and its best to just accept that.

 

[Saddleworth2]

Is it possible just to have a discussion on the future of the U.K. economy, should we leave the EU without any sort of trade deal?
The major countries/trading blocs of the world are, undoubtedly, about to become more and more insular and protectionist, following the Covid 19 pandemic. The signs were that this was happening anyway but it will have an increased momentum with mass unemployment now likely and countries attempting to become more self-reliant, under pressure from their citizens.
We’ve just encountered a virus that every human being has been susceptible to and every country decided to try to fight it on their own. If ever there was an opportunity for co-operation on a global scale that was it and it didn’t happen which suggests that international, barrier and tariff free trade, is a hugely unlikely, in the near term at least.

I’m not trying to rerun the referendum, I’m not in thrall to the EU, I’m not being a sore loser and I don’t need to get over it. I am, on the other hand, somewhat worried about the countries economic prospects and am curious to hear how we might go about making our way in the world, if anyone has any thoughts.

What is there to worry about?

'When I look at this country’s incredible assets: our scientists, our engineers, our world-leading universities, our armed forces. When I look at the potential of this country waiting to be unleashed, I know that we can turn this opportunity into a stunning success, and whatever the bumps in the road ahead, I know that we will succeed.

We have obeyed the people. We have taken back the tools of self-government. Now is the time to use those tools to unleash the full potential of this brilliant country and to make better the lives of everyone in every corner of our United Kingdom.'

I wonder when officially we reach the unleashed phase.

 

[mcfc1632]

Unfeasible deadlines and unrealistic conditions yet you're all in favour of Japan laying the law down and setting a strict and short time frame?

You are 100% against brexit so im not in any way surprised by your stance Bob but it wont stop me pointing a bit of hypocrisy out when i see it ;-)

Some of the Remainers just appear to be riddled with inconsistency, hypocrisy and agenda driven double standards

It seems to satisfy them in the absence of any substance

 

[mcfc1632]

No its Japan that has put the 6 week deadline in place. You posted about it last night joyously remember?

Carry on applauding the EU and others whilst bemoaning the UK for doing the exact same things though Bob.

it is just either disingenuous claptrap or a lack of even basic understanding of negotiations - perhaps both?

Why wouldn't Japan take that stance?

The trade deal between Japan and the United States concluded in September last year and then was formalised by year end

Just a total lack of understanding - I mentioned the other day that some Remainers seem to just trawl the media outlets looking for some bad news for the UK - and if they cannot find any - they invent some

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

4 years today since the vote to leave. 4 years and we are still trading with the EU and the rest of the world on EU terms and our trade is essentially governed by EU rules. We still have no idea what will replace these rules and trade deals - brexiteers still talking bollocks about what can be achieved.