BobKowalski
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We dealt ourselves the hand, all of this is largely self inflicted.
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Another new Brexit thread
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We dealt ourselves the hand, all of this is largely self inflicted.
hilts
Well-Known Member
Brexit in a nutshell.
At least they come from Brazil ,phew
hilts
Well-Known Member
We dealt ourselves the hand, all of this is largely self inflicted.
I forgive you :-)
Brexit in a nutshell.It's bad, really bad but it's the hand we have been dealt.
hilts
Well-Known Member
Brexit in a nutshell.
Not for me but I understand others concern although not their reactions to it.
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese
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If that trajectory continues it's probably going to be Rees-Mogg, Farage, then Tommy :-0It’s been a pretty straight downward trajectory since Blair/Brown. Cameron, then May, then Johnson. Who next? Gove?!
Chris in London
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That certainly didn’t help, but we should never have dreamt them up to begin with, it was banana republic level shite. That Tory MPs even voted for them demonstrated how unfit they are.
Equally, that Tories in the Lords, even Brexiteers, crapped on them in no uncertain terms was to their credit.
There is no little irony in the fact that a Bill, promoted by those whose ascent to power rested in part on the claims that the U.K. had surrendered its sovereignty, proposed that the U.K. Parliament should lawfully (as a matter of U.K. law) authorise the U.K. government to break international law when the existence of that very Bill demonstrates conclusively in itself that membership of the EU did not involve any surrender of sovereignty.
west didsblue
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Reading between the lines, Johnson appears to be building an unconvincing straw man about the EU’s unrealistic demands so he can claim success by accepting what they were actually offering all along whilst claiming he managed to negotiate away demands they hadn’t actually made.
bluethrunthru
Well-Known Member
Reading between the lines, Johnson appears to be building an unconvincing straw man about the EU’s unrealistic demands so he can claim success by accepting what they were actually offering all along whilst claiming he managed to negotiate away demands they hadn’t actually made.
Trying to please all sides?
That has a track record of success for Tory leaders when in power - see Thatcher - Major - Cameron - May - he will be undermined by one side or the other and get fucked off - given the mess he has created I really don't think he will mind.
bluethrunthru
Well-Known Member
There’s nothing in the divergence now that wasn’t known even before the initial referendum,
Yeah but that was quickly denounced as Project Fear. Once they had labelled it thus they couldn't address the truths it contained and deal with them - heads were stuffed in the sand and they went full on denial rather than tackling the issues. There was a failure to deal with the reality because they would succeed better to ignore it and carry on campaigning on their false premise.
M
M
mat
Guest
Boris doesn't work weekends and has a poets day on Friday. Really only got a day.It‘s always incompetence.
There is no point in having another four days circling the drain. If neither side is going to move then you could have another forty days and it wouldn’t make any difference.
And Mark Carney's Reith lecture yesterday made plain how Brown and Darling saved us from a banking meltdown. 3 hours till RBS shut the doors. Johnson would have been in a fridge.It’s been a pretty straight downward trajectory since Blair/Brown. Cameron, then May, then Johnson. Who next? Gove?!
PannickAtTheDisco
Well-Known Member
Deal will be done, it will be shit but we'll move on.
Yep - from the management of negotiations POV - it will be interesting to see what has been agreed in detail that will justify the removal of key clauses in the IMB.I think it’s because May promised that NI would have exactly the same agreement and terms with the EU as the rest of the UK.
Because this distinguishes them as different to the island of Great Britain, the unionists in NI are unhappy.
Not to be arrogant but half way through last year I said that is the arrangement Johnson would go for as it’s the only one that can be done, whilst preserving the GFA.
NI will leave the EU CU in its entirety once the tech is available, and once they vote. They think the tech is about 3/4 years away.
The IMB came to the fore when Barnier, or one of his team, overstepped the mark with comments essentially suggesting that the EU might act in its use of the NIP to effectively create a blockade.
The IMB was a robust response and certainly caused some action/irritation/etc.
Again, from a negotiating POV, it was good to see the resolution of the government to insist the clauses were to be replaced following the HOL stage - and certainly a clever move to delay that step by some weeks to let everyone focus on drafting the detail needed.
The UK will have handled this well - but only so long as the drafting of NIP detail removes the pathetic threat that was made.
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M
M
mat
Guest
It would be nice but Boris has a horse in the race for no deal.Deal will be done, it will be shit but we'll move on.
I chronological order - my strategic plan is to:My own plan is to start saying I voted remain and blame anything bad on Covid. Once we get a covid vaccine we should be able to get back to climate change/BLM and all that stuff.
a) Initially - blame it all on those thick fuckers that voted for it and demand that they own it
b) Accept residency in a EU country so I can keep my options open for my family
c) Then point out that we should all also blame it all on those stupid metropolitan elite Remainers that fucked up the BRINO option in 2018
d) Claim that I was a staunch Leave supporter - if it all goes well
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Are you saying that you think that the UK leaving the EU is easier than Scotland leaving the UK or asking if I think that?True.
Brexiteers should get the logic of the SCexiteers whether they agree about the conclusions the electorate will come to or not.
And all should understand the nuances that influence a vote.
Still think you leaving the EU is a damn site easier than leaving the UK.
If you are asking me - the real (in reality probably only credible) chance for Scotland to leave the UK was in 2014 - just think about the differences between then and the now/future.....
- All parties would have been in the EU - there would have been no issues with borders etc.
- The experience of negotiating a WA would not have been established and it would have been a 'soft' outcome for Scotland
- And lots of other easily managed issues
- How are Scotland going to deal with the border issue - a monkey that would have been on the UK's shoulder in the 2020 negotiations - but will now be on a future independent Scotland's - just think about that single issue - the problem will now be all Scotland's/EU's
- How are they going to deal with a) the loss of their biggest market, b) dependency of access to their 2nd biggest market via the UK and c) the insurmountable challenge - with regard to time and money - to being able to invest in infrastructure to do something about it
- The approach to and scope of a WA is now well established and as part of that - what will be the size of the WA bill and who is going to pay it - perhaps a welcoming EU;-)
- and many other very difficult issues such as dependency on UK departments such as DWP etc. that the newly independent Scotland are very dependent on
I best not go too far off topic
Indeed - thankscounsel.
Very ill-informed rant - posted at 12:21 - is that midnight?Still waiting for when a BRINO deal was ever available. Sheer bunkum / aka gaslighting / aka "disingenuous" / aka a lie.
And you're deluded if you don't think Bluemoon will remember how you voted, for ever. You will always share the blame (I will not be here in 50 years to see the benefit).
Being a bit pissed might go someway to explaining it - hope it was not lunchtime
....... I would be interested to know if the EU has this type of agreement as part of other major trade deals or if its specifically for the UK because of our proximity and potential for competition.
Specifically for the UK - the (limp) excuse is proximity
This is one of the legacies of the May/Robbins era of incompetence - as was the unfettered backstop
May was only ever right about one thing - no deal is indeed better than a bad deal - otherwise how unlucky was the the UK to have her in charge at that critical time.
We should not accept this to the extent that the EU want to define it - No-Deal is the better option - but I worry Johnson will fold
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