Another new Brexit thread

[west didsblue]

Is that why Barnier has repeatedly been coming to London the past few weeks Bob, because the EU cant be bothered to return our calls? What a strange thing to do?!

It's the decision makers not returning calls. Barnier doesn't fall into that category.
It might be surprising to you but important EU decisions are made by the member countries not by representatives of the commission.

 

[blueish swede]

So, is this a good result for NI?

It's all relative. NI got the lube.

 

[Vic]

So if there is a no deal, they still want access to our sovereign waters to fish? !
Alternatively in a the advent of a no deal things will continue as they were, with road a rail access unrestricted as long as they can fish ? Might as well allow them to fish in our waters for a few years with a tapering off of rights over the next few years as firstly we don't have the fleets to fish the waters at the moment and secondly we can use this as a bargaining tool for the other things we want. Agreements and decisions made at the 11th hour are not unexpected. Any hard negotiations always go down to the wire.

Really? We haven't got the fleets to fish our waters? Quelle surprise.

So we've been willing to wreck the livelihoods of Dutch and Belgian fishing communities and our own shellfish exporters - for what? Bloody sovereignty doing a lot of work again.

People will soon find out that you can't spend sovereignty.

 

[Vic]

So now the pendul

No.We will now reject the no deal reciprocal arrangements. After all, some may impinge on our sovereignty.
We wont even be able to agree the terms of a no deal.

Don't forget, it's the same arrangements as with Australia (and the Moon).

 

[Vic]

Stopped reading at I think...

I think, therefore I am.

But I'm not surprised by your aversion to thinking.

 

[Vic]

The only reason this can possibly be is because they are actually scared that we will be come too successful. If they thought we would fail they wouldn't be bothered at all.

They want to shackle us to their own limitations, limitations that EU states break when it suits them. IE the low corporation tax levels the ROI and Luxembourg have, that prop up their economies, the state aid France gave to their car manufacturers in the last recession, but strangely only those factories based in France. The state aid Italy gives its steel manufacturer's which is wrapped up under the umbrella of environmental grants.

Like the nearly a billion pounds Nissan have had in Sunderland.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

It's all relative. NI got the lube.

The pessimist in me says there is worse yet to come for NI and ROI too.

 

[BobKowalski]

Is that why Barnier has repeatedly been coming to London the past few weeks Bob, because the EU cant be bothered to return our calls? What a strange thing to do?!

For the hard of understanding...on the subject of Johnson trying to talk to Macron.

‘This is interesting, but not what the French want right now. Elysee officials told us yesterday they thought a bilat or even a phone call between Macron and Johnson was “not desirable... really not desirable” @BBC

 

[blueish swede]

I find it very difficult to understand why they should have rights to govern our State aid, fishing or subject us to the ECJ once we are not in the EU. I can see that there may be a trade off in terms of giving a bit on one or all those things to get a bit of what we want in terms of frictionless trade / market access which of course we are not entitled to as a non EU state, but the reality that we are no longer an EU member does rather seem to be getting lost.

The way countries and economic blocks combat unfair state aid and dumping is to impose duty/tariffs and quotas on goods from the offending country. The UK is asking for a deal without tariffs or quotas, so ther needs to be agreement on the rules for state aid and a mechanism to determine if those rules have been broken.
WTO rules apply at the state level, i.e. countyr to country, whereas the EU rules allow companies or industries to seek redress. WTO rules on state aid also only apply to goods, but the EU rules cover services as well, and the UK wants access to the services market in the EU. So an agreement on a framework is entirely reasonable.

 

[jaseirai]

The way countries and economic blocks combat unfair state aid and dumping is to impose duty/tariffs and quotas on goods from the offending country. The UK is asking for a deal without tariffs or quotas, so ther needs to be agreement on the rules for state aid and a mechanism to determine if those rules have been broken.
WTO rules apply at the state level, i.e. countyr to country, whereas the EU rules allow companies or industries to seek redress. WTO rules on state aid also only apply to goods, but the EU rules cover services as well, and the UK wants access to the services market in the EU. So an agreement on a framework is entirely reasonable.

There is no EU single market for services

 

[blueish swede]

There is no EU single market for services

Yes there is. The four freedoms of the single market are:
Free movement of goods
Free movement of capital
Free movement of persons
Freedom to establish and provide services

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Yes there is. The four freedoms of the single market are:
Free movement of goods
Free movement of capital
Free movement of persons
Freedom to establish and provide services

Yes, but we are no longer in the single market. With all the banks leaving canry wharf 'because of brexit' it seems obvious that this is not an issue. The future of our financial sector surely lies in becoming a deregulated tax haven / tax avoidance sector as it has already been made clear that the financial markets as they stand in the City of London are relocating to either Frankfurt or SE Asia.

 

[hilts]

 

[jaseirai]

Yes there is. The four freedoms of the single market are:
Free movement of goods
Free movement of capital
Free movement of persons
Freedom to establish and provide services

Hope this helps

The Single Market isn’t delivering the goods - Briefings For Britain

Professor David Blake examines economic performance in the EU and discovers that trend growth in traded goods actually declined after the Single Market was launched on 1 January 1993

briefingsforbritain.co.uk

"Exports of services to the EU by countries outside the EU have grown at a faster rate (0.5% p.a.) than those of EU members to each other"

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

For the hard of understanding...on the subject of Johnson trying to talk to Macron.

‘This is interesting, but not what the French want right now. Elysee officials told us yesterday they thought a bilat or even a phone call between Macron and Johnson was “not desirable... really not desirable” @BBC

I understand what is going on very well, A deeply unpopular Macron is trying to look the strong man in Europe because of the up and coming French elections. Its called political posturing. But the fact remains the EU are very keen to strike a deal just as we are. They don't want a no deal, but if its a no deal then so be it, no point being an independent country and then having to abide by someone else's rules. We trade with other countries and don't have to abide by their rules.

the fact remains whether you like it or not Johnson has a mandate from the British people to enact Brexit and won a large majority based largely on brexit, well that and the incompetence of the labour leadership at the last election. Macron is trying to do the same.

I still believe we are capable of getting a deal and make a success of brexit, you clearly believe and hope we don't get a deal and will fail at brexit. We are very different people Bob.

 

[BobKowalski]

There is no EU single market for services

There is. We do very well out of it. A £300 million surplus last time I looked.

There are less barriers for services between EU member states then there are between individual US States.

 

[blueish swede]

Hope this helps

The Single Market isn’t delivering the goods - Briefings For Britain

Professor David Blake examines economic performance in the EU and discovers that trend growth in traded goods actually declined after the Single Market was launched on 1 January 1993

briefingsforbritain.co.uk

"Exports of services to the EU by countries outside the EU have grown at a faster rate (0.5% p.a.) than those of EU members to each other"

So you're not saying that there is no framework for a single market in services, but that the market is not working.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

There is. We do very well out of it. A £300 million surplus last time I looked.

There are less barriers for services between EU member states then there are between individual US States.

I expected it to be more than that. Even our insignificant fishing industry is worth £987m.

 

[jaseirai]

There is. We do very well out of it. A £300 million surplus last time I looked.

There are less barriers for services between EU member states then there are between individual US States.

Nope.
There are, for example, no common standards in areas important to the technology sector, such as copyright, data format, licensing and tax.
It's about a 20 billion surplus, despite the lack of common standards.

 

[jaseirai]

So you're not saying that there is no framework for a single market in services, but that the market is not working.

I'm not saying it, the author is. There are few common standards