Another shooting in america

[Matty]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-20723910

China school knife attack in Henan injures 22 children

A man with a knife has wounded 22 children - at least two of them seriously - and an adult at a primary school in central China.

The attack happened at the gate of a school in Chenpeng village in Henan province.

Police arrested a 36-year-old local man at the scene.

Security at China's schools has been increased in recent years following a spate of similar knife attacks in which nearly 20 children have been killed.

The BBC's John Sudworth in Shanghai says many of the attackers have been mentally disturbed men, prompting a debate about the effects of China's recent, rapid social change and the inability of an antiquated hospital system to cope with rising levels of mental illness.

The Associated Press news agency quotes a police officer as saying that this latest attack happened as pupils were arriving for classes.

The agency also quotes a county hospital administrator as saying that the man first attacked an elderly woman, then the children, before being overpowered by security guards.

He added that two of the injured pupils had been transferred to better-equipped hospitals outside the county.

And if there is one massacre a month for the next ten years then that argument would be valid you right wing gun loon.

Thanks for the response. I appreciate your insults.

I don't have an argument. It is a sad day and a tragedy like all these events. I think we may have to realise that some people do some stupid things. In China without a gun but a knife, In the USA with a gun. How do we stop someone who goes over the edge?

By making it more difficult for him to go over the edge and kill nearly 30 people perhaps? Yes you can kill without a gun, but it's much easier to simply point a gun and pull a trigger than it is to kill in other ways. This guy today killed 9 adults, would he have been able to overpower and kill 9 different adults with just a knife? Possibly. Would it have been easier, and quicker, to do so with a gun? Definitely.

 

[SWP's back]

I understand when something like this happens, emotions run high.

There are however a couple of things to consider. In this instance and in the movie theatre in Colorado shooting, both areas were labelled no gun zones. These crazies pick gun free zones. Often they are only stopped by someone else with a gun, or suicide like Dunblane.

Also, criminals don't abide by gun laws leaving the rest of the populace unable to defend themselves. Gun confiscation generally lead to a fearful populace and an increasingly threatening government. Eg. germany in the 1930's, or england today...

A gun can be a great equaliser for the old lady whose house is getting broken into. Or the female alone. Or the male against 2 or more who wish to do him harm.

I have been in situations and countries where the rule of law has gone missing and it is quite a scary place to be. One does feel more comfortable with an ability to defend ones self.

Again, what a tragedy today.....

a very stupid argument.


If all zones were gun free then the perpetrators couldnt buy guns and travel to the gun free zone.
yes criminals dont obey the laws but it becomes harder to get illegal firearms if there are effectively no legal ones. Most illegal firearms start life as legal firemarms. I will grant you that the massive gun ownership in the US would mean that illegally available firearms wouldnt reduce for a generation after strict gun controls are introduced, but if you dont start it never happens

please expand your argument on fearful populations in england today. dont really follow it.

the last bit about the rule of law going missing, are you really arguing that the rule of law has gone missing in the states? That would indicate its no longer a civilised nation. You really want to argue that?

A gun free zone means you cannot carry your weapon there, eg. within a few hundred yards of a school. It has nothing to do with purchasing a gun.

"Without rule of law" can be a temporary situation, sometimes very localized. eg. the LA riots. eg. last summer, Reeves Corner in Croydon had their business burned to the ground. Looters raiding businesses and preying on the weak.

thanks for the put downs Pirate. I appreciate your characterisation of me and my thoughts.

And thank fuck we didn't have guns. We had looting, a few shops burnt. The shops were insured and many went to prison. What we didn't have was gun warfare on the streets and tens if not hundreds killed in gun battles.

Like you never have riots in the states.

You have 30,000 per year killed by guns, that is the old capacity of Maine Road, killed by guns. We have 100. Your population is 5 times ours, not 300 times.

Only a fucking idiot would still try and argue that guns make your country safer.

 

[Gaylord du Bois]

The thought of the fear those kids faced truly makes my heart ache.

 

[DelToro]

I understand when something like this happens, emotions run high.

There are however a couple of things to consider. In this instance and in the movie theatre in Colorado shooting, both areas were labelled no gun zones. These crazies pick gun free zones. Often they are only stopped by someone else with a gun, or suicide like Dunblane.

Also, criminals don't abide by gun laws leaving the rest of the populace unable to defend themselves. Gun confiscation generally lead to a fearful populace and an increasingly threatening government. Eg. germany in the 1930's, or england today...

A gun can be a great equaliser for the old lady whose house is getting broken into. Or the female alone. Or the male against 2 or more who wish to do him harm.

I have been in situations and countries where the rule of law has gone missing and it is quite a scary place to be. One does feel more comfortable with an ability to defend ones self.

Again, what a tragedy today.....

Most mass gun killings in America are not committed by career criminals. They are committed by "normal" people with no history of violence or criminality and they obtain their guns by legal means.

 

[SWP's back]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-20723910

China school knife attack in Henan injures 22 children

A man with a knife has wounded 22 children - at least two of them seriously - and an adult at a primary school in central China.

The attack happened at the gate of a school in Chenpeng village in Henan province.

Police arrested a 36-year-old local man at the scene.

Security at China's schools has been increased in recent years following a spate of similar knife attacks in which nearly 20 children have been killed.

The BBC's John Sudworth in Shanghai says many of the attackers have been mentally disturbed men, prompting a debate about the effects of China's recent, rapid social change and the inability of an antiquated hospital system to cope with rising levels of mental illness.

The Associated Press news agency quotes a police officer as saying that this latest attack happened as pupils were arriving for classes.

The agency also quotes a county hospital administrator as saying that the man first attacked an elderly woman, then the children, before being overpowered by security guards.

He added that two of the injured pupils had been transferred to better-equipped hospitals outside the county.

And if there is one massacre a month for the next ten years then that argument would be valid you right wing gun loon.

Thanks for the response. I appreciate your insults.

I don't have an argument. It is a sad day and a tragedy like all these events. I think we may have to realise that some people do some stupid things. In China without a gun but a knife, In the USA with a gun. How do we stop someone who goes over the edge?

You can't. But you can limit the facilitator of death. It is why you can't buy a fully functioning tank.

 

[pirate]

I understand when something like this happens, emotions run high.

There are however a couple of things to consider. In this instance and in the movie theatre in Colorado shooting, both areas were labelled no gun zones. These crazies pick gun free zones. Often they are only stopped by someone else with a gun, or suicide like Dunblane.

Also, criminals don't abide by gun laws leaving the rest of the populace unable to defend themselves. Gun confiscation generally lead to a fearful populace and an increasingly threatening government. Eg. germany in the 1930's, or england today...

A gun can be a great equaliser for the old lady whose house is getting broken into. Or the female alone. Or the male against 2 or more who wish to do him harm.

I have been in situations and countries where the rule of law has gone missing and it is quite a scary place to be. One does feel more comfortable with an ability to defend ones self.

Again, what a tragedy today.....

a very stupid argument.


If all zones were gun free then the perpetrators couldnt buy guns and travel to the gun free zone.
yes criminals dont obey the laws but it becomes harder to get illegal firearms if there are effectively no legal ones. Most illegal firearms start life as legal firemarms. I will grant you that the massive gun ownership in the US would mean that illegally available firearms wouldnt reduce for a generation after strict gun controls are introduced, but if you dont start it never happens

please expand your argument on fearful populations in england today. dont really follow it.

the last bit about the rule of law going missing, are you really arguing that the rule of law has gone missing in the states? That would indicate its no longer a civilised nation. You really want to argue that?

A gun free zone means you cannot carry your weapon there, eg. within a few hundred yards of a school. It has nothing to do with purchasing a gun.

"Without rule of law" can be a temporary situation, sometimes very localized. eg. the LA riots. eg. last summer, Reeves Corner in Croydon had their business burned to the ground. Looters raiding businesses and preying on the weak.

thanks for the put downs Pirate. I appreciate your characterisation of me and my thoughts.

they were not put downs they were responses to the points you've made, all part of the ebb and flow of democratic debate. Not trying to put you down fella trying to debate. hence these responses as well

I appreciate your clarification on the gun free zones. but it doesnt change the point. if everywhere is a gun free zone, you wouldnt be able to legally hold a gun to take to carryout the shootings, especially if it was illegal to buy guns as well.

OK, I agree localised breakdowns in the rule of law do not mean that a country is uncivilised, thanks for the clarification. However a localised breakdon in the rule of law would be made worse by widespread gun ownership and reduced with strict gun control. Supported by the figures from the london riots 2011 and LA riots in 1992. Virtually no firearms in London riots and 5 deaths. Lots of guns in LA and 53 deaths. To be fair the london riots only lasted three days and the LA 5 (or 6 depending on the source) but the difference is still stark.

I would also be very interested in the explanation of the fear in the english population you mentioned previously

 

[BulgarianPride]

And if there is one massacre a month for the next ten years then that argument would be valid you right wing gun loon.

Thanks for the response. I appreciate your insults.

I don't have an argument. It is a sad day and a tragedy like all these events. I think we may have to realise that some people do some stupid things. In China without a gun but a knife, In the USA with a gun. How do we stop someone who goes over the edge?

You can't. But you can limit the facilitator of death. It is why you can't buy a fully functioning tank.

But if everyone had tanks, the nutjob driving the tank would of been neutralized before he does a lot of damage.

 

[rick773]

Jesus Christ..

As far as I'm concerned we've lost the right/freedom to have guns .

if as a society were breeding people who think this is some shit that you can just do, then it's time to get rid of them.

We more or less got rid of pit bulls in Denver in a very short amount of time , wouldn't be much different than this.

I still don't necessarily think its the guns fault but I must've forgot the last time i heard them help in a situation like this.

Yes criminals would still get guns but I also can't remember the last time a gang member shot up a fucking pre school.

 

[pirate]

America is awash with guns and ammunition. Even if all gun sales were banned tomorrow and people were ordered to hand back all weapons there would still be hundreds or thousands of guns in the US. People simply won't abide by any "hand back" law. It will take decades to try and remove the weapons, and even then there will be thousands still in existence. I'm not saying law changes shouldn't come in, I'm just saying it's effectiveness will be severly limited.

but if you dont make a start it never stops

 

[SWP's back]

Thanks for the response. I appreciate your insults.

I don't have an argument. It is a sad day and a tragedy like all these events. I think we may have to realise that some people do some stupid things. In China without a gun but a knife, In the USA with a gun. How do we stop someone who goes over the edge?

You can't. But you can limit the facilitator of death. It is why you can't buy a fully functioning tank.

But if everyone had tanks, the nutjob driving the tank would of been neutralized before he does a lot of damage.

Then we need more tanks