Are City really ruining football?

The only reason we are “ruining” football is because we are winning lots of trophies.

If everything else was exactly the same but we weren’t winning no **** would be batting an eyelid.
 
Chris in London said:
City’s period of dominance is, at least as yet, some way short of the periods of dominance enjoyed by Liverpool and United. Between 1975 and 1990 Liverpool won 10 out of 15 league titles - 67% of the total. In the two decades following the creation of the premier league United won 13 titles - around 62%. City have won 5 titles in 10 seasons - even if City win this league it will be 6 in 11, which is less than 55% - so a fair way behind these teams in both absolute and relative terms.

During that same period of dominance, Liverpool also won the FA cup twice and the League cup 4 times. During their dominant period, United also won the FA cup 4 times and the League cup 3 times. City’s cup success since 2011 is 2 Fa Cups and 6 league cups. So, on balance, it probably is fair to put City’s domestic dominance in the same bracket as the other two clubs periods of success.

Yet this throws up an interesting paradox.

It is interesting to compare the periods of dominance that one English team has had domestically with the success English teams have had in European competition.

During Liverpool’s heyday, the European cup was contested on 9 occasions of the 11 finals starting with Leeds’ defeat in 1975 and ending with English clubs’ ignominious exit from Europe after Heysel in 1985. In particular, English teams won every European cup bar 1 between 1977 and 1984 - Forest in 1979 and 1980, Villa in 1982 and Liverpool in 77, 78, 81 and 84. This of course was the time when only the champions entered the European Cup, which meant one team per country unless the previous year’s cup winners were English - which, at this time, they usually were.

During the same period, English clubs did well in other European competitions. Everton won the Cup Winners cup, and West Ham and Arsenal both got to the final. Liverpool, Ipswich and Spurs all won the UEFA cup in the same period.

During second half of United's period of domination, English teams again began to dominate. Between 2005 and 2012 English cups contested the final on 7 out of 8 occasions, winning three. There was an all-English final in 2007, and there were two or three seasons when three of the four semi finalists were English, including the season when Chelsea were blatantly and infamously cheated out of victory by a Norwegian referee. And of course let's not forget that fucking balmy night in Barcelona.

In the same period Arsenal, Middlesbrough and Fulham all reached the UEFA cup final, which Liverpool won in 2001.

Our own period of dominance, especially during the Pep years, coincides with a resurgence of English success in Europe. Two of the last three finals have been all English affairs, Liverpool losing in the final to Real Madrid in 2018. There have been several seasons where at least two of the four semi finalists were English teams. In the same period, Chelsea won the Europa League twice, United won it in 2017, and United, Liverpool and Arsenal have all lost in the final in the last 6 years.

In total, English teams have won the European Cup/Champions league on fourteen occasions. Thirteen have been in one of these three periods of domestic dominance. English teams have won the Europa league/UEFA cup on nine occasions. Seven came in one of the same periods.

Does that prove that a period of domestic dominance is good for English teams in Europe?

By reference to Empirical evidence, it does, even if correlation does not necessarily imply causation. But it is an interesting point, and not necessarily a counter-intuitive one, that when one team raises the bar domestically, others need to raise their game to be able to compete. And when they do, that benefits them in Europe as well as domestically.

By that reckoning, City aren't ruining football, neither did United or Liverpool when they were dominating.

They were improving it.
Click to expand...
Class.
 
Well, ruin is a bit much but winning everything all the time can be a bit boring, I mean, who doesn't miss typical old City

;)
 
Chris in London said:
City’s period of dominance is, at least as yet, some way short of the periods of dominance enjoyed by Liverpool and United. Between 1975 and 1990 Liverpool won 10 out of 15 league titles - 67% of the total. In the two decades following the creation of the premier league United won 13 titles - around 62%. City have won 5 titles in 10 seasons - even if City win this league it will be 6 in 11, which is less than 55% - so a fair way behind these teams in both absolute and relative terms.

During that same period of dominance, Liverpool also won the FA cup twice and the League cup 4 times. During their dominant period, United also won the FA cup 4 times and the League cup 3 times. City’s cup success since 2011 is 2 Fa Cups and 6 league cups. So, on balance, it probably is fair to put City’s domestic dominance in the same bracket as the other two clubs periods of success.

Yet this throws up an interesting paradox.

It is interesting to compare the periods of dominance that one English team has had domestically with the success English teams have had in European competition.

During Liverpool’s heyday, the European cup was contested on 9 occasions of the 11 finals starting with Leeds’ defeat in 1975 and ending with English clubs’ ignominious exit from Europe after Heysel in 1985. In particular, English teams won every European cup bar 1 between 1977 and 1984 - Forest in 1979 and 1980, Villa in 1982 and Liverpool in 77, 78, 81 and 84. This of course was the time when only the champions entered the European Cup, which meant one team per country unless the previous year’s cup winners were English - which, at this time, they usually were.

During the same period, English clubs did well in other European competitions. Everton won the Cup Winners cup, and West Ham and Arsenal both got to the final. Liverpool, Ipswich and Spurs all won the UEFA cup in the same period.

During second half of United's period of domination, English teams again began to dominate. Between 2005 and 2012 English cups contested the final on 7 out of 8 occasions, winning three. There was an all-English final in 2007, and there were two or three seasons when three of the four semi finalists were English, including the season when Chelsea were blatantly and infamously cheated out of victory by a Norwegian referee. And of course let's not forget that fucking balmy night in Barcelona.

In the same period Arsenal, Middlesbrough and Fulham all reached the UEFA cup final, which Liverpool won in 2001.

Our own period of dominance, especially during the Pep years, coincides with a resurgence of English success in Europe. Two of the last three finals have been all English affairs, Liverpool losing in the final to Real Madrid in 2018. There have been several seasons where at least two of the four semi finalists were English teams. In the same period, Chelsea won the Europa League twice, United won it in 2017, and United, Liverpool and Arsenal have all lost in the final in the last 6 years.

In total, English teams have won the European Cup/Champions league on fourteen occasions. Thirteen have been in one of these three periods of domestic dominance. English teams have won the Europa league/UEFA cup on nine occasions. Seven came in one of the same periods.

Does that prove that a period of domestic dominance is good for English teams in Europe?

By reference to Empirical evidence, it does, even if correlation does not necessarily imply causation. But it is an interesting point, and not necessarily a counter-intuitive one, that when one team raises the bar domestically, others need to raise their game to be able to compete. And when they do, that benefits them in Europe as well as domestically.

By that reckoning, City aren't ruining football, neither did United or Liverpool when they were dominating.

They were improving it.
Click to expand...
Have you ever thought about arguing for a living?
 
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