Are we dining at the top table or not?

[BobKowalski]

The issue is that everyone got used to four - but you're right about that, and if I remember rightly, for the first year or so of City having that many the media and pundits would constantly question how City intended to keep all those strikers happy if they didn't play regularly. It was not felt to be normal or even desirable, only the matter of City managing it well (allied to injuries) stopped those criticisms.

The injuries did help manage the 4 strikers, if Jovetic Aguero and Negredo had all stayed fit then we would have lost Dzeko this summer as he wouldn't have played enough last year.

Exactly. Which is why having four strikers is pretty unusual. Unless there are injuries and exceptional management of them, someone gets left out and leaves in frustration. United clearly didn't want four - when they signed Falcao they got rid of Welbeck. I don't see too many pundits berating them for leaving them light up front, even with a known injury risk to both Van Persie and Falcao.

And if ManU switch to 433 which Van Gaal has played most of his career then 3 is fine as it is for Chelsea or the Dog and Duck but so fucking what. We play with 2 strikers. We played with 2 strikers under Mancini and we play with 2 under Pellers so to compete at the top level we need 4 given 1 is always injured or playing golf in Argentina. All this post rationalisation as if it's some master plan or a means to buy a world class striker in 2016 or whenever is bollocks.

If we planned to switch formation and play with 1 striker and reduce down to 3 then fine but we didn't plan it nor practised it. Instead on transfer dead line day we sold one striker that we knew wanted to go months ago and are now down to 3. Consequently some are questioning this decision and/or the timing or the gamble that 'we will be okay'. And we might well be who knows but it is legitimate grounds for debate at least until our next match when Stefan grabs a hat trick and we go back to talking about something else.

 

[Danamy]

I doubt any of us actually know how serious or not we were with the Falcao deal. We do know that to make things happen with the Falcao deal we had to offload a striker and the Negrado deal started to hot up at the same time. We also know that Pellers wants/needs 4 strikers because he has said so. Now he has 3. We may buy in January, we may be pinning our hopes on a 17 y/o but we have taken justifiable satisfaction at how we plan our squad in terms of shape and balance so this deal does look at odds with that ethos. As for maximising transfer value with a last minute deal well that is poor planning given an earlier sale at a million or two less but securing adequate cover makes more sense from a footballing perspective. Leave the last minute crap to Daniel Levy.

I agree with Blue2112 that the Negrado deal went too far for it to be walked back and it made more sense for it to go through then kill it but it still leave Pellers short of his desired striker quota.

The Negredo to Valencia deal started to hot up a couple of weeks ago, it was always going to happen if the deal was right for both club and player, that question was answered last night.

I don't see the big issue with only having 3 strikers, everyone's favourites including mine (Chelsea) are only running with 3 strikers, Costa, Drogba and Remy, i know which three i'd rather have.

I would rather have our 3 strikers too. But then I would rather have 4. Plus Chelsea play with 1 striker so 3 is fine. We play with 2 so 4 is the magic number. And to date it's Pellers who has had the big issue and last season we were at pains to structure our squad so that it had 4 strikers and going into this season it was no different hence questions are being raised.

As for Negrado again if he wants to go and you know this well in advance then sort it out in advance. It's what Txiki is paid to do and does on the whole very well. This time I think Pellers was resisting the sale and ended up getting railroaded with a last minute deal that had progressed too far for it to be killed. Just my personal view.

Maybe Txiki was holding out to get the best deal for both the club and player?

Apart from you not being happy with him going, you have to admit the price we got was a cracking bit of business considering what we paid for him?

 

[BillyShears]

What is significant though whether City have taken a risk that will not be rewarded?

Judging it in the short term is - well just too short termist. If we finish 2nd this season but not signing a replacement for Negredo this summer allows us to move for a genuinely world class player next summer who is of a better age and better pedigree than Falcao, then I'd say the decision is vindicated.

Last summer (and the window before) we sold Tevez and Balotelli and replaced them with Jovetic and the Beast. At the time many many people said we had made a bad decision, weakened the squad, and that we would pay the price.

I guess the point is that time will tell with the Negredo decision but the current state of flap seems excessive when you consider we still have Kun, Dzeko, and Jovetic, when some of us think Kelechi is the dogs bollocks and could get a look in because of this sale, and that whoever we would've signed unless they were English couldn't have played in the CL anyway.

I am not sure how much flapping is going on but it is legitimate to consider whether this situation has been handled as well as it might have been.

We won't know in the short-term how this will pan out, and we may never be able to be definitive, but the questions remain about risk.

Out of curiosity, what do you think would've happened with regards the CL squad had we signed AN other forward, lets say Falcao for arguments sake. Which position do you think we could've legitimately left weakened to accommodate another forward?

For me it's a pragmatic 12 month decision least of all because of that restriction.

In terms of how well the situation was handled, as I've said, we'll never know if the intention was to only let Negredo go if a replacement was secured or if the intention was to let him go regardless if our valuation was met.

 

[Bobbymanc]

I think we can dine at the top table whenever we want the difference now is that the club can choose and with our squad don't have to panic buy like the red scum. I liked the beast but we dint miss him in the second half of last season so I don't think he will be missed at all.
We have an owner and board who are to be trusted just look at the investment both home and abroad, the future looks very good one transfer window is nothing to worry about.

CTID

 

[Henkeman]

The injuries did help manage the 4 strikers, if Jovetic Aguero and Negredo had all stayed fit then we would have lost Dzeko this summer as he wouldn't have played enough last year.

Exactly. Which is why having four strikers is pretty unusual. Unless there are injuries and exceptional management of them, someone gets left out and leaves in frustration. United clearly didn't want four - when they signed Falcao they got rid of Welbeck. I don't see too many pundits berating them for leaving them light up front, even with a known injury risk to both Van Persie and Falcao.

And if ManU switch to 433 which Van Gaal has played most of his career then 3 is fine as it is for Chelsea or the Dog and Duck but so fucking what. We play with 2 strikers. We played with 2 strikers under Mancini and we play with 2 under Pellers so to compete at the top level we need 4 given 1 is always injured or playing golf in Argentina. All this post rationalisation as if it's some master plan or a means to buy a world class striker in 2016 or whenever is bollocks.

If we planned to switch formation and play with 1 striker and reduce down to 3 then fine but we didn't plan it nor practised it. Instead on transfer dead line day we sold one striker that we knew wanted to go months ago and are now down to 3. Consequently some are questioning this decision and/or the timing or the gamble that 'we will be okay'. And we might well be who knows but it is legitimate grounds for debate at least until our next match when Stefan grabs a hat trick and we go back to talking about something else.

You're missing the point. Four frontline strikers was and is extremely unusual. How many other clubs have that many?

 

[BobKowalski]

The Negredo to Valencia deal started to hot up a couple of weeks ago, it was always going to happen if the deal was right for both club and player, that question was answered last night.

I don't see the big issue with only having 3 strikers, everyone's favourites including mine (Chelsea) are only running with 3 strikers, Costa, Drogba and Remy, i know which three i'd rather have.

I would rather have our 3 strikers too. But then I would rather have 4. Plus Chelsea play with 1 striker so 3 is fine. We play with 2 so 4 is the magic number. And to date it's Pellers who has had the big issue and last season we were at pains to structure our squad so that it had 4 strikers and going into this season it was no different hence questions are being raised.

As for Negrado again if he wants to go and you know this well in advance then sort it out in advance. It's what Txiki is paid to do and does on the whole very well. This time I think Pellers was resisting the sale and ended up getting railroaded with a last minute deal that had progressed too far for it to be killed. Just my personal view.

Maybe Txiki was holding out to get the best deal for both the club and player?

Apart from you not being happy with him going, you have to admit the price we got was a cracking bit of business considering what we paid for him?

I have no issue with the financial aspect of the deal. It's a cracking deal. It's a great deal. It's the deal of the fucking century. I do have an issue with the timing of the deal. I would rather this deal be done a month ago and for a million or two less and adequate cover be lined up. Doing well football wise is more important then squeezing a few extra pounds ala Daniel Levy. And doing things properly and in good time is what we do. We plan. We plot. We construct a championship winning squad. We do not wait for the last minute to do the deal and leave the manager with his dick in his hand and no where to point.

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

what's he done wrong? Taking all factors into consideration... *genuine question*

You beat me to it. Would love to know what these bad decisions are that our board have made since they were appointed. Genuinely as well because there seems to be an awful lot of people who seem to be wandering around with a sense that Soriano and our director of football are somehow chancers who don't know what they're doing. In fact I think i read that exact phrase used to describe them just this morning.

Anyway yes, Karen, would love to hear what these bad decisions are you think that the powers that be have made.

I was aiming it at those who thinks he never gets it wrong and calls out anyone who thinks he has made a mistake not replacing Alf,i'm sick of being called a flapper because i am not a happy clapper.I recall a discussion with the names of players who he brought to Barca that didn't quite work out,no-one gets it right all of the time
My opinion is we are weaker because we did not bring in cover for Alf,a loan,anything
We know sergio could break down at any moment and yaya is away jan/feb
It's an opinion,i'm not the one having a go at anyone who has the opposite one and neither do i want mine to be the right one come may
I am happy with what txiki has achieved since he came to us but not on this one

Out of interest, considering our wage structure, CL squad regs etc., who would you have brought in to replace Negredo?

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

I would rather have our 3 strikers too. But then I would rather have 4. Plus Chelsea play with 1 striker so 3 is fine. We play with 2 so 4 is the magic number. And to date it's Pellers who has had the big issue and last season we were at pains to structure our squad so that it had 4 strikers and going into this season it was no different hence questions are being raised.

As for Negrado again if he wants to go and you know this well in advance then sort it out in advance. It's what Txiki is paid to do and does on the whole very well. This time I think Pellers was resisting the sale and ended up getting railroaded with a last minute deal that had progressed too far for it to be killed. Just my personal view.

Maybe Txiki was holding out to get the best deal for both the club and player?

Apart from you not being happy with him going, you have to admit the price we got was a cracking bit of business considering what we paid for him?

I have no issue with the financial aspect of the deal. It's a cracking deal. It's a great deal. It's the deal of the fucking century. I do have an issue with the timing of the deal. I would rather this deal be done a month ago and for a million or two less and adequate cover be lined up. Doing well football wise is more important then squeezing a few extra pounds ala Daniel Levy. And doing things properly and in good time is what we do. We plan. We plot. We construct a championship winning squad. We do not wait for the last minute to do the deal and leave the manager with his dick in his hand and no where to point.

again, considering our wage structure and CL squad restrictions, who would you have brought in to replace Negredo, considering he wouldn't have been in the CL squad?

 

[ST Coleridge]

The point is that maybe there was never any intention of signing a replacement for Negredo. The Falcao deal just happened to be one which was doable and worthwhile in that instance.

Just because Pellegrini says "I want four strikers" doesn't mean he genuinely feels that way. Watch him say next week either "Silva and Yaya can both play there so I'm not worried" or "Kelechi is someone who wanted to give a chance to and we had no intention of signing another player". Either way, the timing of Negredo's sale is only problematic if you believe City were desperate for a replacement for him, which would seem odd when that replacement would more than likely not even be registered in the CL squad this season. As I say, the most likely scenario is that Falcao being available and Negredo wanting to leave at the same time was coincidental. City would've let Negredo go regardless if their valuation was met.

You're quite sensible. I think a lot of people here just feel like they've missed out on a deadline day treat, and would rather watch SSN than 90 minutes of actual football - there's already a thread in the Transfer Forum entitled 'January Targets', for instance.

Anyway, yeah - I'll be really pleased if Iheanacho gets the odd game. Fourth-choice should be a youngster. I mean, where does it end? It's not inconceivable that Zabaleta and Sagna might pick up knocks - should we have put a bid in for Dani Alves, just in case? What happens if Alves then gets a suspension? WOULD WE HAVE TO RELY ON BOYATA, FFS? IT DOESN'T BEAR THINKING ABOUT.

 

[Danamy]

I would rather have our 3 strikers too. But then I would rather have 4. Plus Chelsea play with 1 striker so 3 is fine. We play with 2 so 4 is the magic number. And to date it's Pellers who has had the big issue and last season we were at pains to structure our squad so that it had 4 strikers and going into this season it was no different hence questions are being raised.

As for Negrado again if he wants to go and you know this well in advance then sort it out in advance. It's what Txiki is paid to do and does on the whole very well. This time I think Pellers was resisting the sale and ended up getting railroaded with a last minute deal that had progressed too far for it to be killed. Just my personal view.

Maybe Txiki was holding out to get the best deal for both the club and player?

Apart from you not being happy with him going, you have to admit the price we got was a cracking bit of business considering what we paid for him?

I have no issue with the financial aspect of the deal. It's a cracking deal. It's a great deal. It's the deal of the fucking century. I do have an issue with the timing of the deal. I would rather this deal be done a month ago and for a million or two less and adequate cover be lined up. Doing well football wise is more important then squeezing a few extra pounds ala Daniel Levy. And doing things properly and in good time is what we do. We plan. We plot. We construct a championship winning squad. We do not wait for the last minute to do the deal and leave the manager with his dick in his hand and no where to point.

He's a big boy and i'm sure he's had worse squads to work with in the past, he's the Manager and the clue is in the name that he needs to manage with what he's got, JM has 3 strikers and so does MP, they both get paid to prepare the team with the squad they've got.

The fact of the matter is we're trying to predict the future on who's right or wrong, maybe we should bookmark this and rendezvous in May 2015?