Arsenal(FA Cup Semi Final) Post Match Thread

[Newman Noggs]

Seems like you have the "Pep out" group wanting to blame him for every last thing. And then the, what, "Cult of Pep" with now the talking point that the club let him down over many years by not properly preparing.

Just one guy's opinion, but for me both seem to be spouting nonsense. Particularly COP whose argument du jour reminds me very much of Traffordites and their "Pogba would be great if we just put him in a midfield 3 with Kroos and Modric."

Pep has to be given 3 years to show whether or not he is the Emperor's New Clothes incarnate. If he's blameworthy for anything this year to me it is for assuming he could properly coach up our defenders to the standard needed to play "his way." Clearly didn't succeed, but how can you know that in advance? I'd rather someone be overconfident than the reverse.

What an excellent post. Only time will tell.

 

[CrownPointBlue]

Last season despite a cup complete disalusionment after the spineless showing at Franco FC.

This season bewilderment after scoring SIX agin Monarco and not going thru.

The cumulative effect of our failure to kick on after 93-20 is slowing the growth of the club,particularily in our own city.

Cups for cock ups.....it's not goin away is it ?

 

[TBooksbluearmy]

Well I guess that is yet another game we've lost through incompetent refereeing. When is the club going to take a stand and start saying that we don't want that official to take charge of any our games because we feel that he has an agenda against us.

With Martin Atkinson in charge for the game against the rags, my guess is that that will be another game where we will have another incompetent ref ruining our chances of winning the game.

 

[Chi-town blues]

If we had kicked them off the park and dubious call from refs ,nose digging French sleeping bag cvnt would still be moaning.

 

[mancunial]

Should have mixed it the whistling shithouse can only send so many off,

 

[Blueside]

I find it ironic that those who are so critical of Pep in this thread are not so critical of the referees who's bias has a far bigger impact on the result than any of the tactics employed by Pep.

The ref gives the right decisions, we win, and there is no criticism of Pep.

It's even the small things, Pawson awarded a free kick to us on the edge of the box opposite where I was stood and then only steps out nine paces. On every single aspect of the game our chances are made more and more difficult.

If you're going to have genuine goals chalked off, no amount of 'tactics' or formations are going to be able to counter that, unless of course your expectation is that we should be beating top six sides 3 and 4 nil!?

I disagree entirely with this I'm afraid. First of all, we wouldn't need to score 3 or 4 goals per game if we had an actual goal 'keeper' in nets (witness Joe Hart versus Lionel Messi from a few years ago). And secondly, when it comes to the referee, one thing we can say is that he is never going to be on 'our' side - that is a fact. He might be bent, straight, competent, incompetent but never is he there to help us or assist us. At the very minimum that is an 'agenda' that is not in our favour, and some of us think there might be even more to the 'agenda' than even that. We must work around that problem (as Roberto Mancini evidently discovered) - don't dive in inside the box or you are giving the referee a chance to award a penalty (Fernandinho at Chelsea), don't retaliate in front of an official by nodding your head into the opponents head as you are giving a chance for the referee to send you off (Nasri - plenty of times etc), don't commit two yellow card offences in succession (however minor) because you are giving the referee the chance to send you off (Gareth Barry plenty of times etc). And always play your strongest side, that preferably gives no hope to the opposition.

This is how it is.

The only thing we can say for certain is that our manager is supposed to be on our side. That is a fact. However, it could be that Pep has had an agenda all of his own, and one which transcends whatever the referee might be up to and which we (the fans, and possibly the club) are looking for. When Roberto Mancini brought Tevez back he did it for one reason, to help us win a trophy no matter the cost (to his reputation): every other manager we have had from Allison to Reid to Royle to Keegan would not have done that for us.

Its the same with Pep and the Bravo situation; from my (angry) perspective, Pep was more interested in winning the cup with Bravo to prove a point, than he was in winning it purely for us, the fans. This was the risk he was prepared to take on Sunday, which is why he filtered Bravo back into the side in recent matches, for no other valid reason. For Pep, winning the cup without Bravo would be a damning indictment of everything he has stood for this year and it simply wasn't worth the risk to his reputation. This might sound harsh but I've seen it before with too many city managers, to know that it happens: ask yourself why Peter Reid sold both Clive Allen and Colin Hendry if you doubt me. If you still doubt me, look up the Revie 'plan' from the 1956 FA Cup final (aka Spurdle's Boils) to see how close to the wire these decisions actually get. We are talking FA Cup final 1956. We are talking Denis Tueart dropped for the FA Cup final replay in 1981.

So why worry about the referee, when you can't even be certain about the agenda of your own manager?

Here is how it happened. Joe Hart got dropped and loaned out for no good reason. We trusted Pep that his replacement was going to be a significant improvement (benefit of the doubt and all that), we found out eventually that he wasn't, via the most damning set of statistics you could ever, and I mean ever, encounter. Pep had to respond by switching keepers just to take the heat out of the situation for a few games. Cabellero comes in and does a good job, but then gets dropped for no reason: the plan for which, evidently, was for Pep to bring back Bravo for the cup again, despite all the odds and all the statistics.

On Sunday, we went out of the cup because for seemingly the millionth time this season, the only two shots on goal went right through the keeper like he wasn't there: was anyone here surprised? I doubt it, and so it wasn't like we haven't been warned.

I cannot blame the referee for the fact that over 120 minutes, enough water slopped over our prow to sink the ship - maybe the ref was there with a ladle in his hand. I am much more concerned though with the hole that someone evidently decided to drill in the bottom of our hull before a ball was even kicked; that's the worry.

I'm glad I'm not running this club because for certain we have a manager that is out of anyone's control: good luck with that - it will be needed.

 

[Machiavelli]

I disagree entirely with this I'm afraid. First of all, we wouldn't need to score 3 or 4 goals per game if we had an actual goal 'keeper' in nets (witness Joe Hart versus Lionel Messi from a few years ago). And secondly, when it comes to the referee, one thing we can say is that he is never going to be on 'our' side - that is a fact. He might be bent, straight, competent, incompetent but never is he there to help us or assist us. At the very minimum that is an 'agenda' that is not in our favour, and some of us think there might be even more to the 'agenda' than even that. We must work around that problem (as Roberto Mancini evidently discovered) - don't dive in inside the box or you are giving the referee a chance to award a penalty (Fernandinho at Chelsea), don't retaliate in front of an official by nodding your head into the opponents head as you are giving a chance for the referee to send you off (Nasri - plenty of times etc), don't commit two yellow card offences in succession (however minor) because you are giving the referee the chance to send you off (Gareth Barry plenty of times etc). And always play your strongest side, that preferably gives no hope to the opposition.

This is how it is.

The only thing we can say for certain is that our manager is supposed to be on our side. That is a fact. However, it could be that Pep has had an agenda all of his own, and one which transcends whatever the referee might be up to and which we (the fans, and possibly the club) are looking for. When Roberto Mancini brought Tevez back he did it for one reason, to help us win a trophy no matter the cost (to his reputation): every other manager we have had from Allison to Reid to Royle to Keegan would not have done that for us.

Its the same with Pep and the Bravo situation; from my (angry) perspective, Pep was more interested in winning the cup with Bravo to prove a point, than he was in winning it purely for us, the fans. This was the risk he was prepared to take on Sunday, which is why he filtered Bravo back into the side in recent matches, for no other valid reason. For Pep, winning the cup without Bravo would be a damning indictment of everything he has stood for this year and it simply wasn't worth the risk to his reputation. This might sound harsh but I've seen it before with too many city managers, to know that it happens: ask yourself why Peter Reid sold both Clive Allen and Colin Hendry if you doubt me. If you still doubt me, look up the Revie 'plan' from the 1956 FA Cup final (aka Spurdle's Boils) to see how close to the wire these decisions actually get. We are talking FA Cup final 1956. We are talking Denis Tueart dropped for the FA Cup final replay in 1981.

So why worry about the referee, when you can't even be certain about the agenda of your own manager?

Here is how it happened. Joe Hart got dropped and loaned out for no good reason. We trusted Pep that his replacement was going to be a significant improvement (benefit of the doubt and all that), we found out eventually that he wasn't, via the most damning set of statistics you could ever, and I mean ever, encounter. Pep had to respond by switching keepers just to take the heat out of the situation for a few games. Cabellero comes in and does a good job, but then gets dropped for no reason: the plan for which, evidently, was for Pep to bring back Bravo for the cup again, despite all the odds and all the statistics.

On Sunday, we went out of the cup because for seemingly the millionth time this season, the only two shots on goal went right through the keeper like he wasn't there: was anyone here surprised? I doubt it, and so it wasn't like we haven't been warned.

I cannot blame the referee for the fact that over 120 minutes, enough water slopped over our prow to sink the ship - maybe the ref was there with a ladle in his hand. I am much more concerned though with the hole that someone evidently decided to drill in the bottom of our hull before a ball was even kicked; that's the worry.

I'm glad I'm not running this club because for certain we have a manager that is out of anyone's control: good luck with that - it will be needed.

Dear God.

 

[Withnail]

I disagree entirely with this I'm afraid. First of all, we wouldn't need to score 3 or 4 goals per game if we had an actual goal 'keeper' in nets (witness Joe Hart versus Lionel Messi from a few years ago). And secondly, when it comes to the referee, one thing we can say is that he is never going to be on 'our' side - that is a fact. He might be bent, straight, competent, incompetent but never is he there to help us or assist us. At the very minimum that is an 'agenda' that is not in our favour, and some of us think there might be even more to the 'agenda' than even that. We must work around that problem (as Roberto Mancini evidently discovered) - don't dive in inside the box or you are giving the referee a chance to award a penalty (Fernandinho at Chelsea), don't retaliate in front of an official by nodding your head into the opponents head as you are giving a chance for the referee to send you off (Nasri - plenty of times etc), don't commit two yellow card offences in succession (however minor) because you are giving the referee the chance to send you off (Gareth Barry plenty of times etc). And always play your strongest side, that preferably gives no hope to the opposition.

This is how it is.

The only thing we can say for certain is that our manager is supposed to be on our side. That is a fact. However, it could be that Pep has had an agenda all of his own, and one which transcends whatever the referee might be up to and which we (the fans, and possibly the club) are looking for. When Roberto Mancini brought Tevez back he did it for one reason, to help us win a trophy no matter the cost (to his reputation): every other manager we have had from Allison to Reid to Royle to Keegan would not have done that for us.

Its the same with Pep and the Bravo situation; from my (angry) perspective, Pep was more interested in winning the cup with Bravo to prove a point, than he was in winning it purely for us, the fans. This was the risk he was prepared to take on Sunday, which is why he filtered Bravo back into the side in recent matches, for no other valid reason. For Pep, winning the cup without Bravo would be a damning indictment of everything he has stood for this year and it simply wasn't worth the risk to his reputation. This might sound harsh but I've seen it before with too many city managers, to know that it happens: ask yourself why Peter Reid sold both Clive Allen and Colin Hendry if you doubt me. If you still doubt me, look up the Revie 'plan' from the 1956 FA Cup final (aka Spurdle's Boils) to see how close to the wire these decisions actually get. We are talking FA Cup final 1956. We are talking Denis Tueart dropped for the FA Cup final replay in 1981.

So why worry about the referee, when you can't even be certain about the agenda of your own manager?

Here is how it happened. Joe Hart got dropped and loaned out for no good reason. We trusted Pep that his replacement was going to be a significant improvement (benefit of the doubt and all that), we found out eventually that he wasn't, via the most damning set of statistics you could ever, and I mean ever, encounter. Pep had to respond by switching keepers just to take the heat out of the situation for a few games. Cabellero comes in and does a good job, but then gets dropped for no reason: the plan for which, evidently, was for Pep to bring back Bravo for the cup again, despite all the odds and all the statistics.

On Sunday, we went out of the cup because for seemingly the millionth time this season, the only two shots on goal went right through the keeper like he wasn't there: was anyone here surprised? I doubt it, and so it wasn't like we haven't been warned.

I cannot blame the referee for the fact that over 120 minutes, enough water slopped over our prow to sink the ship - maybe the ref was there with a ladle in his hand. I am much more concerned though with the hole that someone evidently decided to drill in the bottom of our hull before a ball was even kicked; that's the worry.

I'm glad I'm not running this club because for certain we have a manager that is out of anyone's control: good luck with that - it will be needed.

Balloon alert, think you need to go to bed

 

[Phil1]

I disagree entirely with this I'm afraid. First of all, we wouldn't need to score 3 or 4 goals per game if we had an actual goal 'keeper' in nets (witness Joe Hart versus Lionel Messi from a few years ago). And secondly, when it comes to the referee, one thing we can say is that he is never going to be on 'our' side - that is a fact. He might be bent, straight, competent, incompetent but never is he there to help us or assist us. At the very minimum that is an 'agenda' that is not in our favour, and some of us think there might be even more to the 'agenda' than even that. We must work around that problem (as Roberto Mancini evidently discovered) - don't dive in inside the box or you are giving the referee a chance to award a penalty (Fernandinho at Chelsea), don't retaliate in front of an official by nodding your head into the opponents head as you are giving a chance for the referee to send you off (Nasri - plenty of times etc), don't commit two yellow card offences in succession (however minor) because you are giving the referee the chance to send you off (Gareth Barry plenty of times etc). And always play your strongest side, that preferably gives no hope to the opposition.

This is how it is.

The only thing we can say for certain is that our manager is supposed to be on our side. That is a fact. However, it could be that Pep has had an agenda all of his own, and one which transcends whatever the referee might be up to and which we (the fans, and possibly the club) are looking for. When Roberto Mancini brought Tevez back he did it for one reason, to help us win a trophy no matter the cost (to his reputation): every other manager we have had from Allison to Reid to Royle to Keegan would not have done that for us.

Its the same with Pep and the Bravo situation; from my (angry) perspective, Pep was more interested in winning the cup with Bravo to prove a point, than he was in winning it purely for us, the fans. This was the risk he was prepared to take on Sunday, which is why he filtered Bravo back into the side in recent matches, for no other valid reason. For Pep, winning the cup without Bravo would be a damning indictment of everything he has stood for this year and it simply wasn't worth the risk to his reputation. This might sound harsh but I've seen it before with too many city managers, to know that it happens: ask yourself why Peter Reid sold both Clive Allen and Colin Hendry if you doubt me. If you still doubt me, look up the Revie 'plan' from the 1956 FA Cup final (aka Spurdle's Boils) to see how close to the wire these decisions actually get. We are talking FA Cup final 1956. We are talking Denis Tueart dropped for the FA Cup final replay in 1981.

So why worry about the referee, when you can't even be certain about the agenda of your own manager?

Here is how it happened. Joe Hart got dropped and loaned out for no good reason. We trusted Pep that his replacement was going to be a significant improvement (benefit of the doubt and all that), we found out eventually that he wasn't, via the most damning set of statistics you could ever, and I mean ever, encounter. Pep had to respond by switching keepers just to take the heat out of the situation for a few games. Cabellero comes in and does a good job, but then gets dropped for no reason: the plan for which, evidently, was for Pep to bring back Bravo for the cup again, despite all the odds and all the statistics.

On Sunday, we went out of the cup because for seemingly the millionth time this season, the only two shots on goal went right through the keeper like he wasn't there: was anyone here surprised? I doubt it, and so it wasn't like we haven't been warned.

I cannot blame the referee for the fact that over 120 minutes, enough water slopped over our prow to sink the ship - maybe the ref was there with a ladle in his hand. I am much more concerned though with the hole that someone evidently decided to drill in the bottom of our hull before a ball was even kicked; that's the worry.

I'm glad I'm not running this club because for certain we have a manager that is out of anyone's control: good luck with that - it will be needed.

On a forum with it's fair share of oddballs you've just rose to the top and are unlikely to be ever toppled. I salute you.

 

[nellyonthewing]

I disagree entirely with this I'm afraid. First of all, we wouldn't need to score 3 or 4 goals per game if we had an actual goal 'keeper' in nets (witness Joe Hart versus Lionel Messi from a few years ago). And secondly, when it comes to the referee, one thing we can say is that he is never going to be on 'our' side - that is a fact. He might be bent, straight, competent, incompetent but never is he there to help us or assist us. At the very minimum that is an 'agenda' that is not in our favour, and some of us think there might be even more to the 'agenda' than even that. We must work around that problem (as Roberto Mancini evidently discovered) - don't dive in inside the box or you are giving the referee a chance to award a penalty (Fernandinho at Chelsea), don't retaliate in front of an official by nodding your head into the opponents head as you are giving a chance for the referee to send you off (Nasri - plenty of times etc), don't commit two yellow card offences in succession (however minor) because you are giving the referee the chance to send you off (Gareth Barry plenty of times etc). And always play your strongest side, that preferably gives no hope to the opposition.

This is how it is.

The only thing we can say for certain is that our manager is supposed to be on our side. That is a fact. However, it could be that Pep has had an agenda all of his own, and one which transcends whatever the referee might be up to and which we (the fans, and possibly the club) are looking for. When Roberto Mancini brought Tevez back he did it for one reason, to help us win a trophy no matter the cost (to his reputation): every other manager we have had from Allison to Reid to Royle to Keegan would not have done that for us.

Its the same with Pep and the Bravo situation; from my (angry) perspective, Pep was more interested in winning the cup with Bravo to prove a point, than he was in winning it purely for us, the fans. This was the risk he was prepared to take on Sunday, which is why he filtered Bravo back into the side in recent matches, for no other valid reason. For Pep, winning the cup without Bravo would be a damning indictment of everything he has stood for this year and it simply wasn't worth the risk to his reputation. This might sound harsh but I've seen it before with too many city managers, to know that it happens: ask yourself why Peter Reid sold both Clive Allen and Colin Hendry if you doubt me. If you still doubt me, look up the Revie 'plan' from the 1956 FA Cup final (aka Spurdle's Boils) to see how close to the wire these decisions actually get. We are talking FA Cup final 1956. We are talking Denis Tueart dropped for the FA Cup final replay in 1981.

So why worry about the referee, when you can't even be certain about the agenda of your own manager?

Here is how it happened. Joe Hart got dropped and loaned out for no good reason. We trusted Pep that his replacement was going to be a significant improvement (benefit of the doubt and all that), we found out eventually that he wasn't, via the most damning set of statistics you could ever, and I mean ever, encounter. Pep had to respond by switching keepers just to take the heat out of the situation for a few games. Cabellero comes in and does a good job, but then gets dropped for no reason: the plan for which, evidently, was for Pep to bring back Bravo for the cup again, despite all the odds and all the statistics.

On Sunday, we went out of the cup because for seemingly the millionth time this season, the only two shots on goal went right through the keeper like he wasn't there: was anyone here surprised? I doubt it, and so it wasn't like we haven't been warned.

I cannot blame the referee for the fact that over 120 minutes, enough water slopped over our prow to sink the ship - maybe the ref was there with a ladle in his hand. I am much more concerned though with the hole that someone evidently decided to drill in the bottom of our hull before a ball was even kicked; that's the worry.

I'm glad I'm not running this club because for certain we have a manager that is out of anyone's control: good luck with that - it will be needed.

Well despite the naysayers on here the essence of your point is that Pep's arrogance is such that he would sacrifice the desire of the fans to win a trophy in order to validate his own judgements. I don't disagree with this hypotheses and am sure Mourinho ,and maybe Mancini ?? would probably do the same. These guys have super ego's and with the exception of Roberto do not connect with fans. Its all about them.