When I tell mates of mine who support other clubs that united fans come on here in droves pretending to be City fans or fans of other clubs they don't believe me. They cannot believe that people could be that fucking sad. What a bunch of fucking losers.1_barry_conlon said:newton heath said:Sadly i can't help but feel they've got a right to be a bit self-righteous. They are one of few clubs who are run as it used to be, where success was dependent not on who had the richest owner but on the people running the club day in day out. Objectively that's a far more moral way for a sport to run.Damocles said:Personally, it's less about that and more about the fact that I don't know a single Arsenal fan who isn't a completely self-righteous ****.
They believe that they are "better" than us, not on the pitch, but as a club because Wenger has unsuccessfully brought through youth, and they blame us for "ruining the game" in the most hypocritical way possible.
Say what you want about City fans, but in my experience at least, we do not feel that we are "above" other clubs.
I'm not sure if you're reference to Arsenal fans being hypocritical is about their chairman's investment those years ago but i've seen it on here so i'll talk about it anyway. In their defense the Fiszman £50m is hardly similar to the situation these days and really isn't being hypocritical.
The Arsenal fans stick by the club being run as a business and what Fiszman did was in keeping with that. There were still intentions to make profits, not posting continual losses like with the modern sugar daddies, the spending was not continual but an injection to hold club assets and to improve revenue through competition. Companies in every industry do, have done and will continue to do what Arsenal did with Fiszman however i can't think of an instance in which a business is run similar to you or Chelsea. So tbh it isn't being hypocritical at all.
Bolton fan my fucking arse! And to think some of the suckers on here believed you?
gordondaviesmoustache said:matty barton said:Bottom line is that football hasn't been ''right'' since the early 90s. Prior to that clubs that did things the ''right'' way flourished. Derby,Forest,West Ham and Ipswich all had successful eras. Thats gone forever and the game is poorer for it.
Didn't hear many Arsenal fans saying this when their place at the top table was guaranteed, nor for that matter when they were at the vanguard of creating the modern world that English football inhabits today when they decided to carve the TV money up for themselves at other clubs' expense.
Arsenal, as much as any club, created the monster we see today, it is a little late in the day to decry it now, just because everything isn't going your way anymore.
Zabbasbeard said:-- Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:43 pm --
matty barton said:M18CTID said:Of course it's hypocritical. It's no different to what City are doing now - relying on investment from a rich benefactor to further the ambitions of the club - and you're showing a total ignorance of the medium/long-term strategy of our club which was always to invest heavily initially with the intention of growing the club and it's revenues to the point that we'll eventually be self-funding and not reliant on our owner.
Why do you think we've appointed Soriano? One of his tasks over the next few years will be to use his contacts to considerably increase the club's revenue through ever more lucrative sponsorship deals. Why do you think our owner is investing over £100 million in a new state-of-the-art training ground and academy complex? Do you seriously believe that these plans (with more to come) are those of someone who only believes in the short-term view of chucking money at numerous players while totally disregarding investment in the long-term well-being of the club?
I'll also point out that Arsenal were somewhat fortunate in that Fiszman's investment came at a time when the playing field was a damn sight more level than it is now and therefore his money went a lot further back then than an equivalent amount would today. Not only that, but they're also fortunate in that their London location allows them to get away with charging extortionate prices for season tickets (the most expensive season tickets in world football - yeah, that's really doing things the "right way" eh?) and corporate hospitality that numerous companies in the capital will be more than happy to pay - the kind of prices that they would have no chance of getting away with charging if they were located anywhere north of Watford. This in turn helps them balance the books a lot better than many decent sized northern clubs. There's no denying that they're a well-run club financially but they're hugely advantaged by their geographical location, something that often gets overlooked.
If it was that easy to run a club in London why is it that only Arsenal and Spurs are genuinely big clubs while there are 8-10 clubs like that in the north? Both of those clubs come from traditionally working class areas. Tottenham is as much of a slum as Moss Side.West Ham probably have the third biggest traditional fanbase in London. They come from one of the poorest boroughs in the country.
The clubs from wealthy areas like Chelsea,Fulham or Wimbledon have much smaller grassroots fanbases because football traditionally doesn't live in those areas.
There are disadvantages to being in London as well. Loads of immigrants from around the UK and the rest of the world. These people support the clubs they grew up with. Building a stadium like ours cost 360 million quid. The Milennium in Cardiff cost 100.
It also makes me laugh when other fans have the brass neck to slag our fans for paying the highest prices in the world. What else are we going to do? The options are pay up or stop going. Plenty have had to stop going.
To an extent whats happened with Abramovich and Mansour has put pressure on our prices as they have inflated player wages. Yes, our owner is a money grabbing yank ****, but it amazes me some of you can't see why we have an issue with you and Chelsea.
For what its worth, Fiszman was a proper Arsenal fan. Nevertheless he didn't gift money to the club.He invested money in a team that had won a lot of trophies in recent years and needed a shot in the arm to stay at the top.
I'm not having a go at City. Just trying to point out that its all about perspective.
I have more time for you than I do for 40,000 people, who hadn't been to a football ground prior to 2004 , waving plastic flags at Stamford Bridge, but it does grate to hear that Gooners are shit fans because they:
a) make no noise at home
b) are gobby arrogant ***** away from home
c) pay high ticket prices to follow their team
This week I'm taking my kids to Arsenal v Coventry in the League Cup. £10 a ticket in the lower tier. On Saturday v Chelski the cheapest ticket in the ground costs £62. Can't afford to drag kids along for that. Both games will be 60,000 sell-outs though. Not bad for a trophyless feeder club on its way down supported by shit fans :-)
As the son of an immigrant (who worked here until his mid 70s, the year before his death) how can immigrants be a "disadvantage"? Are you racist? Are yiou just xenophobic? Did you enjoy such immigrants as Bergkamp, Henry and Vieira playing for your club?
If you are being racist then clear off and don't come back on here again. Your hypocrisy I can live with (it's a joke), but I won't live with racism.
gordondaviesmoustache said:When I tell mates of mine who support other clubs that united fans come on here in droves pretending to be City fans or fans of other clubs they don't believe me. They cannot believe that people could be that fucking sad. What a bunch of fucking losers.1_barry_conlon said:newton heath said:Sadly i can't help but feel they've got a right to be a bit self-righteous. They are one of few clubs who are run as it used to be, where success was dependent not on who had the richest owner but on the people running the club day in day out. Objectively that's a far more moral way for a sport to run.
I'm not sure if you're reference to Arsenal fans being hypocritical is about their chairman's investment those years ago but i've seen it on here so i'll talk about it anyway. In their defense the Fiszman £50m is hardly similar to the situation these days and really isn't being hypocritical.
The Arsenal fans stick by the club being run as a business and what Fiszman did was in keeping with that. There were still intentions to make profits, not posting continual losses like with the modern sugar daddies, the spending was not continual but an injection to hold club assets and to improve revenue through competition. Companies in every industry do, have done and will continue to do what Arsenal did with Fiszman however i can't think of an instance in which a business is run similar to you or Chelsea. So tbh it isn't being hypocritical at all.
Bolton fan my fucking arse! And to think some of the suckers on here believed you?
They really are the bitterest bitters of the lot.
ifiwasarichfan said:I find this deteriorating relationship between us and Arsenal very sad personally. I have always preferred my venom to be directed at Spurs and Everton as well as the Mickeys and the Rags.
When Arsene was regularly winning Trophy's and previously to him gorgeous George and really getting on Taggerts tits - I took the view that the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
matty barton said:Zabbasbeard said:-- Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:43 pm --
matty barton said:[/b]
If it was that easy to run a club in London why is it that only Arsenal and Spurs are genuinely big clubs while there are 8-10 clubs like that in the north? Both of those clubs come from traditionally working class areas. Tottenham is as much of a slum as Moss Side.West Ham probably have the third biggest traditional fanbase in London. They come from one of the poorest boroughs in the country.
The clubs from wealthy areas like Chelsea,Fulham or Wimbledon have much smaller grassroots fanbases because football traditionally doesn't live in those areas.
There are disadvantages to being in London as well. Loads of immigrants from around the UK and the rest of the world. These people support the clubs they grew up with. Building a stadium like ours cost 360 million quid. The Milennium in Cardiff cost 100.
It also makes me laugh when other fans have the brass neck to slag our fans for paying the highest prices in the world. What else are we going to do? The options are pay up or stop going. Plenty have had to stop going.
To an extent whats happened with Abramovich and Mansour has put pressure on our prices as they have inflated player wages. Yes, our owner is a money grabbing yank ****, but it amazes me some of you can't see why we have an issue with you and Chelsea.
For what its worth, Fiszman was a proper Arsenal fan. Nevertheless he didn't gift money to the club.He invested money in a team that had won a lot of trophies in recent years and needed a shot in the arm to stay at the top.
I'm not having a go at City. Just trying to point out that its all about perspective.
I have more time for you than I do for 40,000 people, who hadn't been to a football ground prior to 2004 , waving plastic flags at Stamford Bridge, but it does grate to hear that Gooners are shit fans because they:
a) make no noise at home
b) are gobby arrogant ***** away from home
c) pay high ticket prices to follow their team
This week I'm taking my kids to Arsenal v Coventry in the League Cup. £10 a ticket in the lower tier. On Saturday v Chelski the cheapest ticket in the ground costs £62. Can't afford to drag kids along for that. Both games will be 60,000 sell-outs though. Not bad for a trophyless feeder club on its way down supported by shit fans :-)
As the son of an immigrant (who worked here until his mid 70s, the year before his death) how can immigrants be a "disadvantage"? Are you racist? Are yiou just xenophobic? Did you enjoy such immigrants as Bergkamp, Henry and Vieira playing for your club?
If you are being racist then clear off and don't come back on here again. Your hypocrisy I can live with (it's a joke), but I won't live with racism.
maybe you should learn how to read instead of giving it the large. Everyone else understood what I meant, but I'll explain it to you in simple terms.
We were not talking about the pros and cons of immigration for a society. We were talking about the advantages and disadvantages of running football clubs in the north and the south.
If you go somewhere like Sunderland 98% of the population are born and bred Mackems.Thats an advantage for the local club, because they are all Sunderland fans from the day they are born.
Now compare that with any part of London.There will be huge chunks of the population who came from other parts of the country or abroad. Those people will have an allegiance to whatever club they grew up supporting wherever they came from.
If they settle in the area their kids might support the local team, but the City fan from Manchester, the Grimsby fan from Cleethorpes, the Fenerbahce fan running the kebab shop, the Hurling supporting pub landlord from Ireland or the Manchester United fan from Nigeria are of no benefit to Arsenal, Spurs,West Ham,Chelsea,QPR etc, because they don't support those clubs. In other words its a disadvantage compared to a northern club from a town with a more homogenous population.
How the fuck you turned that into racism says more about you than me.
I was only pointing out that not everyone is the sort of fan you describe, I don' give a monkeys where our fans live or work, even the team they support as long as their first team supported is their only team supported! Still see coaches full of fans of all clubs from all parts of the country.franksinatra said:cheddar404 said:AFC said:So the original posters comment of supporting your local team doesn't affect a City fan. I understand people move away and still follow their club or family history affects who you support and not where you live, why can't he!
I am a bit disappointed by the comments on here, always thought the real City fans to be quite original with their chants etc and appreciate good support. I thought the banter between opposing fans is what makes football, yet our attempt at a poznan(home and away) and vocally supporting our team is derided - some of the songs we and ALL clubs sing are cringeworthy, but you cant win Highbury library or Loudmouthed Twats?. Originality in songs is not always best...The sky commentator in the box will submit to that!
We all have the same newbie support that has diluted our clubs in the sky era but some of us still exist. In 1987 we played you lot at your spiritual home we were 0-3 down but you were facing relegation, the banter(and even a conga on the platt lane benches) are the sorts of things that stick in the memory for me. The piss taking of our support by the section next to us on the north stand despite being 4-0 up (shall we sing a song for you Arsenal in the "cockney accent" etc - you had to be there) was fucking annoying but still funny!
Don't knock the banter between fans,in days of ridiculous prices,little relation to current players who show no loyalty to their clubs or fans. There isn't much left!
I'll leave you to slag off the cockney newbie with too much to say as I still have a prawn sarnie to eat.
Regards & Respect
Don't worry. The irony was not lost on me. I saw your questions and decided to run with it anyway. Quite childish I know. The points you make are valid and I largely agree with them. I think the relationsip between our clubs has become strained due to the amount of players we have purchased from you. I also blame Piers Morgan who is an utterly vile indivdual. I used to have a lot of time for Arsenal, playing some of the best football I've ever seen in this country and also knocking United off their perch. I now breath in the stench of bitterness that comes from their direction. Good luck for the season anyway; you talk a lot of sense.
Just for the record AFC I have only moved down to the Southend/Colchester area a couple of months ago I am still a season ticket holder and left at 4am from Manchester to make work this morning. And incidentally my family have supported City for many years with the last three generations seeing victory in cup finals 34/56/68/11 respectively.
Your right there is nothing wrong with banter at a football match, it is part of the experience and makes the game much more enjoyable. However my reflections on Arsenal fans are based on personal experiences and differ significantly from my experiences 5 or 10 years ago when City were at the bottom rung of the laddder and clubs like Arsenal were lauding over us. Furthermore I enjoyed the Poznan although like many city attempts it was pretty manic with pockets of fans jumping up all over the place.
My comments about not supporting your local club were not well explained. Ive had the bandwagon accusation thrown at me since being down here and was you a City fans when they were rubbish comments.. Which personally I find ironic when many of the Arsenal walk around here wearing the shirt but have little knowledge or interest in the club.