Article 50/Brexit Negotiations

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I think if the people were asked they would narrowly reject a soft deal...
Think people on both sides are sick of the whole thing now, probably wish we hadn't bothered, and would vote for any deal, hard , soft anywhere inbetween to forget about it and get on with real life.
 
The problem is how do we ratify a deal the country can live with. I think if Parliament voted tomorrow they would not allow a hard deal to go through but I think if the people were asked they would narrowly reject a soft deal...

If we go into a negotiation, negotiate something and the people reject it what do we do then? This all hinges on the EU and what they are prepared to do but they know that fact very well which is a terrible position for us to be in.

To be honest I think this will go on for a very long time and either we will pull the plug or we will be bent over backwards into accepting a far softer deal than we might be comfortable with.

Agree.

The EU also knows that a UK suffering economically before it leaves, let alone what happens to it afterwards, serves as a stark reminder to any other recalcitrant member.
 
Think people on both sides are sick of the whole thing now, probably wish we hadn't bothered, and would vote for any deal, hard , soft anywhere inbetween to forget about it and get on with real life.
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Getting on 'with real life' will unfortunately mean having to live with the fallout of whatever is agreed on Brexit, so we will hardly be able to 'forget about it'.
 
I get what you're saying but it's quite a difficult thing for a government to do this on the back of a parliamentary majority. There is always going to be quite a few remain MPs in the Tory party and they won't necessarily be able to rely on the Opposition to help them get the votes they need.
A few? Most.

A new factor is whether Corbyn really does want to leave even if the national mood changed.

If the major parties actually stopped saying they were committed to respecting the result of the referendum, would it really cause outrage? Especially as project fear comes true just a bit slower than the fear mongers predicted. Be afraid, be very afraid, just not yet.
 
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Getting on 'with real life' will unfortunately mean having to live with the fallout of whatever is agreed on Brexit, so we will hardly be able to 'forget about it'.
Well that's true I know , but most people aren't really that political, and don't associate the negotiations with their everyday life. Think a lot thought we'd vote and the next few weeks it would all be sorted.
 
Well that's true I know , but most people aren't really that political, and don't associate the negotiations with their everyday life. Think a lot thought we'd vote and the next few weeks it would all be sorted.
I agree with you , I think a lot of people thought bish bosh bang wallop EU exit sorted in a few weeks ( some) or at most two years (others).
I would guess that these 'folks' have now been disabused of this notion and may be pausing for quiet reflection or more probably shitting themselves.
 
A few? Most.

A new factor is whether Corbyn really does want to leave even if the national mood changed.

If the major parties actually stopped saying they were committed to respecting the result of the referendum, would it really cause outrage? Especially as project fear comes true just a bit slower than the fear mongers predicted. Be afraid, be very afraid, just not yet.

yes it would. if they didnt respect the result of the referendum and we didnt leave the eu. it would be the biggest political stitch up ever imo, it will have also mean both labour and the conservatives will have lied and the manifestos they got voted on were lies as well. do you really think there wouldn't be outrage ?
 
A few? Most.

A new factor is whether Corbyn really does want to leave even if the national mood changed.

If the major parties actually stopped saying they were committed to respecting the result of the referendum, would it really cause outrage? Especially as project fear comes true just a bit slower than the fear mongers predicted. Be afraid, be very afraid, just not yet.
It has just become some kind of sacred cow that we are made to worship. The government explicitly asked for the referendum to be advisory,it is therefore non binding anyway.
The Tories have jumped on it because they see it as an opportunity to neutralise the fractious question of Europe, which has been a thorn in their sides and source of party division for decades, once and for all. In framing it as upholding democracy rather than political opportunism, they have effectively castrated anybody who would argue against Brexit for fear of being labelled as undemocratic and going against the wishes of the electorate. This is why every politician that talks about Brexit starts off by saying " of course we are leaving the EU" and " of course the result of the referendum must be respected" before going on to say what a bad idea it is.
This to me is a dereliction of duty and a cowardly betrayal of the futures of our children for party political purposes rather than acting on what is best for the future of the country.
 
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Had a quick recap on where we stand and it seems that we must quit the Single Market and Customs Union whilst maintaining the benefits and trading advantages of the Single Market and Customs Union otherwise we are screwed. I may be misreading this but it seems we enter talks today in a very strong negotiating position.
No, you're right.
The EU are shitting themselves.
Are they fuck.
More like pissing themselves.
Laughing at our stupidity.
 
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