Article 50/Brexit Negotiations

[The perfect fumble]

Not at all. Anyone with any common sense or logic knows that

Then guilty as charged.

 

[Helmet Cole]

You tell me? if it's a shite article and a shite survey isn't shite synonymous with lies?

Its shite because for the most part it's speculation ahead of the fact, presented as fact. You'd have thought that a little humility and the recognition that no one knows what will happen is in order - unless a particular view is being espoused in a biased way of course.

 

[Ban-jani]

Can you give any examples of the UK being tough?

Standing firm on the divorce bill? Gilbratar?

 

[The perfect fumble]

Do you think post brexit people involved in import and exports will be so busy with added paperwork they will not have time to post on internet forums?

I can say with some degree of inside knowledge, that the foot soldiers at the Department for International Trade and HM Revenue & Customs can hardly contain themselves with joy.

 

[The perfect fumble]

Its shite because for the most part it's speculation ahead of the fact, presented as fact. You'd have thought that a little humility and the recognition that no one knows what will happen is in order - unless a particular view is being espoused in a biased way of course.

For all the articles shortcomings its main premise is that the electorate expects X to be delivered, when May has said it won't

And Guy Verhofstadt has said it definitely won't.

 

[hilts]

Then guilty as charged.

You certainly are but I'm in the mood to enlighten you to save us all more tosh. Ask a 100 people if they would like a fantastic NHS. Write down the results and put them in a thread on here. Maybe title it most people want a good NHS.

That would be a shite thread without a word of a lie in it.

 

[hilts]

For all the articles shortcomings its main premise is that the electorate expects X to be delivered, when May has said it won't

And Guy Verhofstadt has said it definitely won't.

Now that's a lie

 

[i kne albert davy]

For all the articles shortcomings its main premise is that the electorate expects X to be delivered, when May has said it won't

And Guy Verhofstadt has said it definitely won't.

You and I know what politicians say definitely won't happen quite often does.

 

[The perfect fumble]

You certainly are but I'm in the mood to enlighten you to save us all more tosh. Ask a 100 people if they would like a fantastic NHS. Write down the results and put them in a thread on here. Maybe title it most people want a good NHS.

That would be a shite thread without a word of a lie in it.

Yes, hedgehogs are ten feet tall, except the ones that aren't.

But that's not the issue, this isn't about a shite article and a shite survey, what you don't like is its conclusions. Its conclusions are that the electorate are not up to speed with their expectations being pissed on and a sizeable chunk, not unreasonably, want what they were promised.

Anyone taking even a passing interest in what's been happening these past few months can't fail to observe, that those promises are being broken and the rain smells like piss.

 

[The perfect fumble]

Now that's a lie

Is that so.

 

[The perfect fumble]

You and I know what politicians say definitely won't happen quite often does.

I'd happily be proven wrong.

 

[steviemc]

The report tells us nothing but speculation.

By indicating that both remainers and leavers would like any current benefits of EU membership to remain whilst curbing immigration tells us nothing new at all. If there were benefits we received by being a member of the EU (however small) it would be absurd not to try and retain as much of these as possible within any leaving deal. I don't think anybody has ever seriously suggested we shouldn't try and get the best we can - even if we are trying to have our cake and eat it. The report then goes on to tell us what is going to happen in the future - at which point I lost interest .

 

[hilts]

Is that so.

Well I'm off to bed but you said expect and the survey uses the words want and would like.

If you asked someone would you like to be a millionaire most would say yes

If you asked someone would they expect to become a millionaire they would say no.

A more relevant question that would make the article relevant and less shit would be

If you had to choose between a free trade deal that included free movement of people or no trade deal and wto tariffs which would you prefer.

But it didn't because it was shit. Maybe even if they said do you expect the best of both worlds it would be better, but they didn't according to the article.

I hope you finally get the point.

 

[Len Rum]

Ok Len, in relation to your challenge of what do brexiters want does what I want not sound to mental?

It sounded ok mate.
You're far too relaxed and reasonable about it all.
Sure you're not a closet Remainer?
I want the real hard Brexiters to come on to this thread.
Those who want:
Dramatic reduction in immigration as promised.
Nothing to do with the ECJ as promised.
Walk away with no deal.
No transition phase ( sorry "implementation" phase) still tied to the EU,maybe an EXTRA three years!
All this has already been committed to by the reMAYner. What if she doesn't deliver?
Where r u guys?
LET'S BE 'AVIN U!

 

[blueonblue]

Ha ha ha, must be a real kick in the plumbs to be a remainder like you,

Turkey now has a dictator who will either get free movement for 77 million Turks into the EU or open the floodgates from the middle east/Africa.

Two of the front runners in the French election are anti EU, either of which winning will crash the Euro and rip up EU treaties.

There wont be much left to have remained in will there ?

 

[mcfc1632]

Well done Prime Minister - an absolute game changer and holding a GE will strengthen the UK's negotiating position enormously

Really glad that I have not gotten around to answering your question yet Len - my response will be much more bullish now. We should all, IMO - whether leave or Remain voters - wish to celebrate that there is now clear evidence that Mrs May is absolutely committed to Brexit and has the capacity for determination - even ruthlessness in decision making. I say whether Leave or Remain voters because it now seems clear that we at leaving the EU so we should want the best for the UK and that those negotiating for us to have the strongest possible position.

All those poncy games being played by the likes of Farron and Benn recently - the GE will be like a flood that cleanses away all the detritus and the wasters that have been threatening to undermine the UK during the negotiations.

You can imagine that there will be a number of long-voting Labour constituencies that will be willing to vote Conservative this time secure Brexit, whereas such as places where I live (Wokingham) whilst perhaps last year returning a Remain majority there is not any chance they will switch from the Conservatives.

And as for UKIP - why would not every UKIP voter not vote Conservative on this occasion - they get everything they have wanted.

Good news for Labour - you will have a new leader in July - good for the UK as well because our democracy needs an effective opposition and especially good news for the UK as May will have 5 years to make Brexit a cemented reality - with no/limited scope for it to be reversed

 

[Len Rum]

Well done Prime Minister - an absolute game changer and holding a GE will strengthen the UK's negotiating position enormously

Really glad that I have not gotten around to answering your question yet Len - my response will be much more bullish now. We should all, IMO - whether leave or Remain voters - wish to celebrate that there is now clear evidence that Mrs May is absolutely committed to Brexit and has the capacity for determination - even ruthlessness in decision making. I say whether Leave or Remain voters because it now seems clear that we at leaving the EU so we should want the best for the UK and that those negotiating for us to have the strongest possible position.

All those poncy games being played by the likes of Farron and Benn recently - the GE will be like a flood that cleanses away all the detritus and the wasters that have been threatening to undermine the UK during the negotiations.

You can imagine that there will be a number of long-voting Labour constituencies that will be willing to vote Conservative this time secure Brexit, whereas such as places where I live (Wokingham) whilst perhaps last year returning a Remain majority there is not any chance they will switch from the Conservatives.

And as for UKIP - why would not every UKIP voter not vote Conservative on this occasion - they get everything they have wanted.

Good news for Labour - you will have a new leader in July - good for the UK as well because our democracy needs an effective opposition and especially good news for the UK as May will have 5 years to make Brexit a cemented reality - with no/limited scope for it to be reversed

Pleased that you're still going to reply to my question. Look forward to receiving your reply.
For my part the only change in your reply should be in response to that bit of my question about what type of Brexit you think will actually happen ( in the light of today's astonishing cut and run u turn). As for what type of Brexit you want and your red lines,that shouldn't change.
As for the assumption that May's announcement today means a harder Brexit is more likely I wouldn't be so sure. There is a groundswell of opinion in the national and social media that this signals a softer Brexit for all kinds of reasons one of which is the strengthening of May's hand against her right wing Brexit loons. The £ rose two cents against the dollar today in anticipation of a softer Brexit. There are other reasons which I won't go into here but I'm sure will fill these pages for months to come.
By the way you say you're from Wokingham, you're not JR are you?

 

[The perfect fumble]

I suppose the only thing that might be positive about this shabby opportunism, is that May (hopefully) will be forced to outline where the fuck she's going with Brexit. As she has just stated in front of No 10 she wants a ringing endorsement to do whatever it is she's about to do, then an election might just tease out what the fuck that is.

The woman can certainly lie to camera, citing as the prime mover behind this snap election a divided Parliament against a unified country, what a duplicitous shit! When what she really meant was that she has a divided government and an election victory will strengthen her hand against the likes of Fox, Davis, Redwood, Cash, Duncan Smith et all.

Though that might be a misreading of her intentions, perhaps she'll use this election to resurrect a Red, White and Blue Brexit, no deal better than a bad deal. The concessions she has had to make so far were all in response to the hard reality of her weak bargaining position, she knows as anyone following the Brexit process knows, that no "good deal" is going to emerge from Brussels, so maybe she wants an endorsement to hard Brexit and blame the shit storm on the perfidious Europeans.

 

[Len Rum]

I suppose the only thing that might be positive about this shabby opportunism, is that May (hopefully) will be forced to outline where the fuck she's going with Brexit. As she has just stated in front of No 10 she wants an ringing endorsement to do whatever it is she's about to do, then an election might just tease out what the fuck that is.

The woman can certainly lie to camera, citing as the prime mover behind this snap election a divided Parliament against a unified country, what a duplicitous shit! When what she really meant was that she has a divided government and an election victory will strengthen her hand against the likes of Fox, Davis, Redwood, Cash, Duncan Smith et all.

Though that might be a misreading of her intentions, perhaps she'll use this election to resurrect a Red, White and Blue Brexit, no deal better than a bad deal. The concessions she has had to make so far were all in response to the hard reality of her weak bargaining position, she knows and anyone following the Brexit process knows, that no "good deal" is going to emerge from Brussels, so maybe she wants an endorsement to hard Brexit and blame the shit storm on the perfidious Europeans.

Agree with that.
My own view is that it indicates a softer Brexit is more likely but who knows?
As you say It will be very interesting to see how she and the government respond to questions about potential Brexit outcomes , like for instance the impact of 'no deal'.
She's called this election to get a mandate for her kind of Brexit, she can't hide behind the 'no running commentary' anymore or " can't tell you that as it would compromise our negotiating position" mantra.
Cue the mud slinging on Jezz and McDonald.

 

[The perfect fumble]

Agree with that.
My own view is that it indicates a softer Brexit is more likely but who knows?
As you say It will be very interesting to see how she and the government respond to questions about potential Brexit outcomes , like for instance the impact of 'no deal'.
She's called this election to get a mandate for her kind of Brexit, she can't hide behind the 'no running commentary' anymore or " can't tell you that as it would compromise our negotiating position" mantra.
Cue the mud slinging on Jezz and McDonald.

You're not alone in that analysis....