Assisted dying

denislawsbackheel said:
And you are completely wrong.
Nearly all insurance policies will pay out after a year has elapsed if you commit suicide.
They won’t insure you if you’ve ever tried and failed.

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Like i said I didn’t know what they do thankfully
 
johnny crossan said:
I'm wondering why you want to make this issue about religion, it's not - although for the social media anti-God squad it's just another bandwagon to jump on. Many religious believers support the bill and many non-believers oppose it. My view is that state controlled euthanasia and its provision as a service via the NHS is simply wrong. Their proper focus should be 100% on improving end of life care. If you want to debate the absurdity of your atheist position I'm happy to accommodate you on an appropriate thread elsewhere but here's a few arguments supporting my view on this subject set out by your fellow freethinkers in evidence to HoC Committee:
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Take you religious obsession with interfering in other people’s lives and stick it up your bigoted arse.
 
kaz7 said:
Just accept that we all will get to a point where we are tired fighting and want to die . I have nursed so many people of old age, nineties, that said to me that my race is run and i am so tired of life . Now matter how good a nursing home or hospice is sometimes it is not enough
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How can you be tired of fighting and want to die? It’s a contradiction. You either want to die or you don’t. If you decide you are willing to die if the pain or fight became to hard then you still don’t want to die, but you are prepared to die. That’s two very very very different things.

Very few people actually want to die, and those who do will likely have unresolved mental health issues.
 
stonerblue said:
No it wouldn't be 'a form of coerciveness'. It would be an adult making their decision based on how they feel about lots of things.
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It all depends how you define or perceive coerciveness really. Perhaps flip the tables and say you have a relative who says I’m prepared to die and someone talks them out of it. Would you say that’s ok? I’d say by definition that’s a form of coercion and not ok. It might not be consciously done and in fact done from a place of love, but is the actual outcome any different? Of course there is a fine line between offering an alternative viewpoint and going on enough to dissuading someone against their wishes. I suppose in its purest form we are all guilty to some extent of exhibiting coercive behaviours towards others at one time or another.
 
bluethrunthru said:
I did see that and I also saw he went down the Reinhard Jenrick route of claiming it will all be governed by European courts ( Spoiler - it wouldn't ) which, if thats his view, makes his utterances redundant and frankly quite vile if he is trying to make far right political capital out of a very serious subject
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He did mention the unwelcome possibility of ECHR interference briefly right at the end but I don't see how that negates what he said about the potential coercive implications of the legislation or its cost impact on end-of-life care.
 
metalblue said:
How can you be tired of fighting and want to die? It’s a contradiction. You either want to die or you don’t. If you decide you are willing to die if the pain or fight became to hard then you still don’t want to die, but you are prepared to die. That’s two very very very different things.

Very few people actually want to die, and those who do will likely have unresolved mental health issues.
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Mansplaining
 
johnny crossan said:
Did you listen to the quadruple amputee MP on Kuenssberg this morning explain his concerns about this legislation's coercive effect and the fact that it would require the state to pay for an assisted suicide but totally fails to address the fact that it currently pays nothing of 70% of the cost of palliative care? These are the principal objections and the ones which I share which have absolutely nothing to do with religion. That doesn't stop tedious bozos like you turning up to churn out hatespeak about 90+% of the world population who have a religious faith though.
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Well the Chancellor of the Dutchy of Lancaster says it won't be an NHS service so it will cost us all money to die whatever.
 
BlueAnorak said:
Well the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster says it won't be an NHS service so it will cost us all money to die whatever.
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Wonder what his arch-enemy Diane Abbot will make of that? Her issue with the bill is that its an NHS cost cutting exercise in the face of an ever increasing older population. The Dutch are currently debating extending state euthanasia to over 70s who are just "tired of life'.
www.irishtimes.com

Right to euthanasia for people ‘tired of life’ supported by most Dutch

Fifty-five per cent say physically healthy people should have right to end own lives
www.irishtimes.com www.irishtimes.com
 
johnny crossan said:
Anybody get me behind this paywall?
www.thetimes.com

I can’t rejoice at this assisted dying bill. Where is the humanity?

After sitting as a justice of the Supreme Court, and having seen friends struggle with end-of-life choices, Jonathan Sumption believed the law should change. But he feels the new bill is over-engineered and coldly inhumane
www.thetimes.com www.thetimes.com
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web.archive.org

I can’t rejoice at this assisted dying bill. Where is the humanity?

After sitting as a justice of the Supreme Court, and having seen friends struggle with end-of-life choices, Jonathan Sumption believed the law should change. But he feels the new bill is over-engineered and coldly inhumane
web.archive.org web.archive.org
 
stonerblue said:
Does it fuck.
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Well as there is the best part of ZERO protection against this in the bill (especially from the state - how you ever heard of the Liverpool Care Pathway), I would say it's pretty much a slam dunk as to what JC says.
Go read it:

There are around 70-80 MPs who voted for it, who will vote against it after committee stage unless the clauses against coercion and protection of medical staff are dramatically improved.
Hansard is your friend on this.
 
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BlueAnorak said:
web.archive.org

I can’t rejoice at this assisted dying bill. Where is the humanity?

After sitting as a justice of the Supreme Court, and having seen friends struggle with end-of-life choices, Jonathan Sumption believed the law should change. But he feels the new bill is over-engineered and coldly inhumane
web.archive.org web.archive.org
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An eloquent criticism of the bill and its context by an important figure who agrees the law should be changed. I would like to read his alternative proposals..
 
Brightwell’s left peg said:
Ouch. ‘tedious bozo’ is a bit anti Christian. I though you were supposed to turn the other cheek?
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We are, it's one of many challenging things that lots of Christians try to do but often fail to live up to in our daily lives. It's one I personally find quite difficult.

In fairness to Johnny C, 'tedious bozo' is quite a bit less unpleasant than some of the vitriol that's been aimed at him on this thread and it would be good if all perspectives can stay civil on this debate. There's still much to discuss as our parliamentarians try and get us to the best possible legislation.
 
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