Assisted dying

[supercity88]

And, I repeat, what has this to do with the issues at hand? It has passed in principle but many have said things with the bill have to be fixed to get past the next hurdle into ping-pong with the Lords.

There are plenty of things to resolve, but there is also more time now for MPs to digest what is in front of them. Some of the concerns raised, whilst heartfelt, were completely irrelevant and just illustrated how unaware many were of the specific details of the bill. I mentioned one MP talking about her daughter being touch and go for a while due to an illness, but that illness wouldn't have ever been determined to be terminal - it was an undiagnosed illness initially and took time to find the correct medication. So her daughter was never going to qualify for assisted dying. People seem to think this is going to lead to a mass culling of people and make it easy to coerce people into killing themselves. We don't want there to be any ability for this to open the door to more extreme possibilities (the mental illness and mental health side of things needs to be drafted to be water tight) but it is a positive for people to be able to choose this path if they qualify and wish to take it.

 

[Brightwell’s left peg]

We are, it's one of many challenging things that lots of Christians try to do but often fail to live up to in our daily lives. It's one I personally find quite difficult.

In fairness to Johnny C, 'tedious bozo' is quite a bit less unpleasant than some of the vitriol that's been aimed at him on this thread and it would be good if all perspectives can stay civil on this debate. There's still much to discuss as our parliamentarians try and get us to the best possible legislation.

is failure punishable by consignment to hell, or is it just a ‘nice to have’ in the eyes of Jesus.

If any religious person (Christian or otherwise) chooses to believe in sky fairies that’s one thing, but if you choose to believe in sky fairies and then make demands/influence policy on how the rest of us lead our non religious lives (or deaths in this case), then you’re going to invite Vitriol.

But, Johnny should just turn the other cheek…you know…practice what he preaches.

 

[threespires]

is failure punishable by consignment to hell, or is it just a ‘nice to have’ in the eyes of Jesus.

If any religious person (Christian or otherwise) chooses to believe in sky fairies that’s one thing, but if you choose to believe in sky fairies and then make demands/influence policy on how the rest of us lead our non religious lives (or deaths in this case), then you’re going to invite Vitriol.

But, Johnny should just turn the other cheek…you know…practice what he preaches.

We live in a democracy so people, whether it's you, me or Johnny can seek to make demands/influence policy based on our values be they secular or religious. Ultimately a democratic decision is made and that becomes the law of the land for us all. Pouring vitriol on someone because they believe something different to you simply mimics the intolerance of the dodgiest kind of theocracy. An authoritarian is an authoritarian whether they are dressed up in religious apparel or not.

Edit: just realised I hadn't responded to your bolded bit. No, I don't believe it is a 'nice to have' and that we are all answerable at our deaths in some way shape or form for the lives we've led and the choices we've made. I appreciate that might make you think I'm a loon and who knows, maybe I am; but as long as I'm not trying to impose my views on you, which I'm not, and you're not trying to do likewise I think we can coexist in peace.

 

[Brightwell’s left peg]

We live in a democracy so people, whether it's you, me or Johnny can seek to make demands/influence policy based on our values be they secular or religious. Ultimately a democratic decision is made and that becomes the law of the land for us all. Pouring vitriol on someone because they believe something different to you simply mimics the intolerance of the dodgiest kind of theocracy. An authoritarian is an authoritarian whether they are dressed up in religious apparel or not.

I know all that. Being a democracy doesn’t mean we don’t argue and push back against ridiculous notions that influence democracy, and you’d better believe people can and should get vitriolic when they’ve seen loved ones suffer and beg for the painless and dignified end, but for such to be forbidden off the back of archaic views founded on religion.

If half of the country were Christian Utd fans, and they voted democratically to pass a law that City weren’t allowed to win anything because we are owned by people who believe in a different deity, would you provide a vitriolic response to anybody arguing the rights of that, irrespective of whether they are entitled to such an opinion in a democracy. Of course not, you’d call it out for the bullshit it is. Passive acceptance of Relgious belief needs to end, for humanity’s sake.

 

[threespires]

I know all that. Being a democracy doesn’t mean we don’t argue and push back against ridiculous notions that influence democracy, and you’d better believe people can and should get vitriolic when they’ve seen loved ones suffer and beg for the painless and dignified end, but for such to be forbidden off the back of archaic views founded on religion.

If half of the country were Christian Utd fans, and they voted democratically to pass a law that City weren’t allowed to win anything because we are owned by people who believe in a different deity, would you provide a vitriolic response to anybody arguing the rights of that, irrespective of whether they are entitled to such an opinion in a democracy. Of course not, you’d call it out for the bullshit it is. Passive acceptance of Relgious belief needs to end, for humanity’s sake.

I'm not aware anyone on this thread is propagating a view anywhere close to the analogy you've laid out in your second paragraph. You seem to projecting all sorts of stuff onto people based on the fact they follow a religion and ascribing a level of cruelty and indifference that I haven't seen either on here or tbf in the debate in general. I watched my mum die a pretty horrible death from one of the nastiest forms of cancer so the idea that I would blithely adopt an unthinking position is wide of the mark. As has been said on multiple occasions this debate isn't really circumscribed by religion, there are plenty of secular people against and plenty of religious people for.

More broadly, whilst I believe in separation of church and state and have no desire to live in a theocracy I obviously disagree with you about whether religious beliefs have a place in the world.

 

[Brightwell’s left peg]

I'm not aware anyone on this thread is propagating a view anywhere close to the analogy you've laid out in your second paragraph. You seem to projecting all sorts of stuff onto people based on the fact they follow a religion and ascribing a level of cruelty and indifference that I haven't seen either on here or tbf in the debate in general. I watched my mum die a pretty horrible death from one of the nastiest forms of cancer so the idea that I would blithely adopt an unthinking position is wide of the mark. As has been said on multiple occasions this debate isn't really circumscribed by religion, there are plenty of secular people against and plenty of religious people for.

More broadly, whilst I believe in separation of church and state and have no desire to live in a theocracy I obviously disagree with you about whether religious beliefs have a place in the world.

This is going nowhere.

 

[threespires]

This is going nowhere.

Agreed.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

I'm not aware anyone on this thread is propagating a view anywhere close to the analogy you've laid out in your second paragraph. You seem to projecting all sorts of stuff onto people based on the fact they follow a religion and ascribing a level of cruelty and indifference that I haven't seen either on here or tbf in the debate in general. I watched my mum die a pretty horrible death from one of the nastiest forms of cancer so the idea that I would blithely adopt an unthinking position is wide of the mark. As has been said on multiple occasions this debate isn't really circumscribed by religion, there are plenty of secular people against and plenty of religious people for.

More broadly, whilst I believe in separation of church and state and have no desire to live in a theocracy I obviously disagree with you about whether religious beliefs have a place in the world.

Wait for the next iteration of the Conservative Party .....

 

[kaz7]

My brother had MS from his twenties , it was the type that gets worse as time goes on , in recent years he often told me he had had enough ,he was bed bound and his wife had to do everything for him , then he couldnt swallow and went blind

We had talked about suicide over the years and he wished he had done it whilst he could , he got cancer and wasnt fit enough to have treatment , he died last year in a terrible state, he would have taken an assisted death in a heartbeat

 

[Marriedtoablue]

Neither can i metal, hence my questioning 'coercion'.

Yes Coercion was perhaps a bad choice of phrase - lack of sleep for which you can blame metal and his snoring.

My point however remains the same, that if someone chooses to die that they should do so only for themselves, and not for others.

The research on perceived burden is plentiful and I would hate someone to feel that and take this decision despite not wanting to themselves.