Asylum seekers: Napier Barracks and Penally camp 'filthy and run-down'

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

Well i mentioned heating, Soldiers still use dorms so if its good enough for our troops its good enough for asylum seekers. Also perhaps we should supply the asylum seekers with some cleaning products and let them clean it themselves rather than pay someone to clean it for them. I guess most of us clean our own accomodation so I see nothing wrong with that, I guess we are not making their beds for them so why cant they be responsible for their own cleanliness. Lets be honest its not much too expect.

I suppose we have to get some return on the £37.50 a week we give them to live on.

 

[Rascal]

I suppose we have to get some return on the £37.50 a week we give them to live on.

They are not allowed to work as well, so using them to clean companies buildings is possibly illegal.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Is it possible to merge this with the thread where folk were outraged at asylum seekers living in hotels and add a poll?

 

[stonerblue]

Is it possible to merge this with the thread where folk were outraged at asylum seekers living in hotels and add a poll?

THe Polls have all gone home..

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

I suppose we have to get some return on the £37.50 a week we give them to live on.

im surprised you are not down there volunteering to tuck them into bed every night with a kiss on the cheek. What on earth is wrong with expecting people to have some level of self responsibility.

Sometimes im really not sure about you ifwecould. Your expectations in life seem to be borne out if some form of utopia where everything is done for everybody else presumably free of charge.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

They are not allowed to work as well, so using them to clean companies buildings is possibly illegal.

where does work and being responsible for your own wellbeing become separate entities. When either myself or my wife do a bit of cleaning in our house i dont actually see it as work neither do i find it demeaning. You can also rent a home and still be responsible for cleaning it. So the fact that the barracks belong to the state or possibly a company is irrelevant surely?

 

[Rascal]

where does work and being responsible for your own wellbeing become separate entities. When either myself or my wife do a bit of cleaning in our house i dont actually see it as work neither do i find it demeaning. You can also rent a home and still be responsible for cleaning it. So the fact that the barracks belong to the state or possibly a company is irrelevant surely?

Its not there house, they are there at the behest of the state in a place run by an outsourced company.

I am sure it is not demeaning, but surely any contract given to these outsourcers must include general upkeep and if they are using the people they are housing to do there work for them than that is surely illegal.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

Its not there house, they are there at the behest of the state in a place run by an outsourced company.

I am sure it is not demeaning, but surely any contract given to these outsourcers must include general upkeep and if they are using the people they are housing to do there work for them than that is surely illegal.

Rascal. I have enormous respect for you as a poster on this forum and enjoy reading your posts but i feel you are deliberating bluring the lines, with words like upkeep and outsourcing. Firstly we are talking about a bit of cleaning, not reroofing the place. And secondly it shouldn't matter who owns the building whether you are made responsible for cleaning the place. As i pointed out most renters clean their own own. Whether it is a private company or the state , if is the taxpayer that will be paying for it to be cleaned. As i am a taxpayer I personally object to having to pay someone to brush a floor when the person it is brushed for is capable of brushing it themselves. i brush my own floor as i expect you do. If its good enough for me and you its good enough for anyone else. its called taking personal responsibility and is something that this country of ours was built upon.

 

[Rascal]

Rascal. I have enormous respect for you as a poster on this forum and enjoy reading your posts but i feel you are deliberating bluring the lines, with words like upkeep and outsourcing. Firstly we are talking about a bit of cleaning, not reroofing the place. And secondly it shouldn't matter who owns the building whether you are made responsible for cleaning the place. As i pointed out most renters clean their own own. Whether it is a private company or the state , if is the taxpayer that will be paying for it to be cleaned. As i am a taxpayer I personally object to having to pay someone to brush a floor when the person it is brushed for is capable of brushing it themselves. i brush my own floor as i expect you do. If its good enough for me and you its good enough for anyone else. its called taking personal responsibility and is something that this country of ours was built upon.

And i have enormous respect for you.

They are not renters though, they are there at the Governments behest in a building that is run by a company using Government money. They have a contract to keep the building habitable i assume, they have failed in that duty hence the OP. So as a taxpayer are you happy that your taxes are being wasted on outsourced companies who cut costs so their shareholders profit and in attempt to cut costs use what could be described as slave labour to maintain the standards that the contract expects to be upheld.

You know how Capitalism works, if a company sees a way of cutting costs it will do so, then all of a sudden the people there at the Governments behest are not only sweeping up they are building more huts to house more people so the company can make more profit.

That means good people of this country are not needed to do the jobs and the economy suffers as we pay them UC instead of working.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

And i have enormous respect for you.

They are not renters though, they are there at the Governments behest in a building that is run by a company using Government money. They have a contract to keep the building habitable i assume, they have failed in that duty hence the OP. So as a taxpayer are you happy that your taxes are being wasted on outsourced companies who cut costs so their shareholders profit and in attempt to cut costs use what could be described as slave labour to maintain the standards that the contract expects to be upheld.

You know how Capitalism works, if a company sees a way of cutting costs it will do so, then all of a sudden the people there at the Governments behest are not only sweeping up they are building more huts to house more people so the company can make more profit.

That means good people of this country are not needed to do the jobs and the economy suffers as we pay them UC instead of working.

Public accountability and spending taxes wisely is something that I am very strong advocate on. Sadly i see very little of it in this government or previous ones. So no i am not happy about it. But that imo is a different discussion rather than expecting someone to take some responsibility for their own cleanliness and that of their immediate living environment.

 

[Rascal]

Public accountability and spending taxes wisely is something that I am very strong advocate on. Sadly i see very little of it in this government or previous ones. So no i am not happy about it. But that imo is a different discussion rather than expecting someone to take some responsibility for their own cleanliness and that of their immediate living environment.

I would agree but did you see the state of the place they were staying. A broom and a bottle of JIF wouldn't have made that much difference. If the place was habitable, then by all means ask them to keep it clean and tidy, but it is was already a place you would not house pigs in. And that is down to the providers to do something about.

There has been studies into this, one famously in New York where they started mending broken windows in poor neighbourhoods, they noticed the place became cleaner as it gave people pride in where they lived.

 

[PannickAtTheDisco]

on a serious note, don't see why it needs to be outsourced and it's exactly the thing a national social service would be good for, which you could even enrol said asylum seekers on and bring them up to speed in language, skills, integration yadda yadda.

 

[Rascal]

on a serious note, don't see why it needs to be outsourced and it's exactly the thing a national social service would be good for, which you could even enrol said asylum seekers on and bring them up to speed in language, skills, integration yadda yadda.

Absolutely.

This Govt. though loves the free market, it is missing an opportunity here to do as you say, but that would involve state involvement and they hate that. No profit in it.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

Public accountability and spending taxes wisely is something that I am very strong advocate on. Sadly i see very little of it in this government or previous ones. So no i am not happy about it. But that imo is a different discussion rather than expecting someone to take some responsibility for their own cleanliness and that of their immediate living environment.

It’s not just their immediate living environment though is it?

When I lived in a HMO (3 bed terrace with dining and living room converted to bedrooms) , we had a cleaner that came every 2 weeks and cleaned the communal areas. Of course it didn't go two weeks between cleaning of kitchen surfaces or floors. Some of us had higher standards of cleanliness and others were lazy or filthy. Not washing around the bath and leaving hair in plughole catcher to build up.

When the cleaner didn't come because of lockdown the letting company sent us cleaning items in the post and we cleaned up collectively, but this wasn't without some confrontation after a friendly request to the slob to take part.

I won't go on anymore, but the point is that the letting company didn't provide the cleaning service as a kindness out of their own heart. But partially to maintain a peaceful environment and prevent social tension.

Now imagine you have 400 people in cramped accommodation in a social environment that is exclusively adult male and has a social fabric that is a blend between a refugee camp and a prison. Some might take pride in their accommodation and keep up cleaning, others might not give a fuck, and some might bully others into doing it for them.

Unlike the military living in barracks, there is no rigid hierarchy to enforce order and shared standards of hygiene.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

It’s not just their immediate living environment though is it?

When I lived in a HMO (3 bed terrace with dining and living room converted to bedrooms) , we had a cleaner that came every 2 weeks and cleaned the communal areas. Of course it didn't go two weeks between cleaning of kitchen surfaces or floors. Some of us had higher standards of cleanliness and others were lazy or filthy. Not washing around the bath and leaving hair in plughole catcher to build up.

When the cleaner didn't come because of lockdown the letting company sent us cleaning items in the post and we cleaned up collectively, but this wasn't without some confrontation after a friendly request to the slob to take part.

I won't go on anymore, but the point is that the letting company didn't provide the cleaning service as a kindness out of their own heart. But partially to maintain a peaceful environment and prevent social tension.

Now imagine you have 400 people in cramped accommodation in a social environment that is exclusively adult male and has a social fabric that is a blend between a refugee camp and a prison. Some might take pride in their accommodation and keep up cleaning, others might not give a fuck, and some might bully others into doing it for them.

Unlike the military living in barracks, there is no rigid hierarchy to enforce order and shared standards of hygiene.

I understand your point. But I stand by my assertion that I would do it, so I expect others to do the same. Conversely I wouldn't expect them to fix the heating repair the roof or decorate the place.

These people want a new life in a new country, given a change I would be surprised that many didn't actually want to do a little cleaning and improve their lot. After all, isn't that why they left the horror and squalor of worn torn countries like Syria and Iraq and crossed western Europe, that they deemed also wasn't good enough to stay in, to get he chance to rebuild their lives in the UK?

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

I understand your point. But I stand by my assertion that I would do it, so I expect others to do the same. Conversely I wouldn't expect them to fix the heating repair the roof or decorate the place.

These people want a new life in a new country, given a change I would be surprised that many didn't actually want to do a little cleaning and improve their lot. After all, isn't that why they left the horror and squalor of worn torn countries like Syria and Iraq and crossed western Europe, that they deemed also wasn't good enough to stay in, to get he chance to rebuild their lives in the UK?

I would expect them to clean their own immediate living space and to process their own laundry. I wouldn't be against incentivising them taking on cleaning activities of communal areas if it was feasible, by extra money or top up bundles of non essential food or goods.

But that doesn't work when it is not feasible, when there is no pride in the accommodation, because it is run down hugely overcrowded and their is no rigid social hierarchy like in an army barracks or enforcement officers like in a prison.

Just because you and I would clean our own living space, you can't assume that all people would. It is logical to assume a sizeable minority wouldn't , the expectation that they should doesn't do anything unless you can rigidly enforce that they do.

 

[mat]

Just the way Patel wants it's so the Daily Heil and other media companies promoting hate can send their message out about filthy foreigners coming over here etc...

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

I would expect them to clean their own immediate living space and to process their own laundry. I wouldn't be against incentivising them taking on cleaning activities of communal areas if it was feasible, by extra money or top up bundles of non essential food or goods.

But that doesn't work when it is not feasible, when there is no pride in the accommodation, because it is run down hugely overcrowded and their is no rigid social hierarchy like in an army barracks or enforcement officers like in a prison.

Just because you and I would clean our own living space, you can't assume that all people would. It is logical to assume a sizeable minority wouldn't , the expectation that they should doesn't do anything unless you can rigidly enforce that they do.

There is no ''non essential food or goods'' there is only the weekly allowance of £39.65 (which rises to £41.50 if you're pregnant) this sum is loaded onto a card (so you cant spend it in crack dens or brothels) from this sum you are expected to buy your food and sanitary materials.

Asylum seekers are not allowed to work.