It goes without saying.
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It goes without saying.
Not necessarily season tickets.There's a large number of specific seats and indeed blocks of seats that week on week that remain empty, even for "sold out" games. QED.
Chippy_boy
Well-Known Member
why?
Gazed out of the window during your maths lessons I presume?
Chippy_boy
Well-Known Member
Not necessarily season tickets.
Very likely though. Otherwise they'd be random seats that were empty. When the same seat is empty week in, week out, surely that's an absent season ticket holder? What other reason could it be?
Very likely though. Otherwise they'd be random seats that were empty. When the same seat is empty week in, week out, surely that's an absent season ticket holder? What other reason could it be?
Tickets allocated to club partners/staff/re-sellers etc
JGL07
Well-Known Member
Maybe some people had a season ticket as a Christmas present?Very likely though. Otherwise they'd be random seats that were empty. When the same seat is empty week in, week out, surely that's an absent season ticket holder? What other reason could it be?
wearethesouthstand
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 5 Feb 2008
- Messages
- 1,893
Why give weight to this argument? Because it's true. It's not an argument. Believe it or not, just like many on here I desperately wanted the new singing section to succeed. I moved from 111. I gave up a great seat and a great view. I also had some great times in there. Singing, banter, etc. I moved because I hoped the new singing section would be better. Is it? The jury is still out on that one as far as I'm concerned.
I'll give you an honest and unbiased view of the new singing section, in my opinion.
For a start I don't buy into the fact that the new 3rd tier claimed a large percentage of fans who originally decided to relocate to the new singing section. Fans who wanted to stand and sing would have still relocated to the new singing section, regardless of the new 3rd tier. We were led to believe there was as many as 400-500 fans relocating to the new singing section from other parts of the ground. In all honesty, is there even 50-100 singing fans grouped together in 114 or 115? Probably more like 20-30?(grouped together)
What we've got is very similar to blocks 111, 110 and 109. A mixture of fans who want to sing all the time, part of the time, or not at all. Those 3 groups of fans are completely mixed up and spread out in blocks 115 and 114. As it stands there isn't a large group of singers massed together in 114 or 115.
Let me make this clear. What l'm about to write is not a criticism of 1894. I've supported them and helped them right from the start. I also know some of the lads personally and I'm on speaking terms with them. TBH I consider them to be friends. What they've achieved at City and on the terraces has been great. And because of them we're heading in the right direction. However, there are a few things I've noticed that I think need looking at, which could make a difference, and could have a positive impact on the singing and atmosphere in blocks 114 and 115?
1. As far as I know, and I could be wrong, 1894 are reluctant to grow their numbers? They want to keep everything in-house. They have a tight knit bunch of lads. That's not to say they don't welcome more fans joining in singing on the concourse and on the terraces.
2. When I stand with them I see the same faces most of the time. I appreciate they know each other and they are mates. But unless you actively invite new fans into that close knit group, you will never increase the numbers, and increase the number of singers grouped together.
3. As I've already stated, many of the singers are spread throughout both blocks. From what I've seen there seems to be 2 groups of singers. The 1894 group at the back of 115, under the overhang, and another group to left of them. Don't know who they are. That aside, and in my opinion, if you've got 10-15 lads stood under the concrete overhang at the back of 115 that isn't going to help the songs and the noise to travel. The concrete overhang acts like a buffer, a dampener, and muffles the chants and any noise created. Whether by choice or by accident 1894 have decided to stand there during the games. From a personal point of view, and seeing where Palace and other Ultras stand, it would make more sense to stand near the bottom or in the middle of the block/s, so the chants and the noise can either travel up the blocks, or up and down the blocks. That being said, most of those seats have now probably been allocated to other season ticket holders.
Being honest, the new singing section has made the atmosphere better at the Etihad, but with more organisation, and ultimately more singers grouped together, and in a better location on the terraces, the support and atmosphere could and would be so much better.
That's my take on it, rightly or wrongly. :-)
no some incorrect details here mate. now this isn't a personal pop but you simply have no idea of the personal levels of commitment that the main 1894 guys have been putting in. finding thousands. working on stuff late at night, middle of the night, putting City first above their families !!! you came to one painting session (thankyou) and you came to one event where we put foils out (thankyou again) - what you need to understand is that nothing happens with people getting involved. we regard you as a mate jrb thats true - but you have been on this forum over and over again over many years saying this should happen, that should happen, why can't we have an atmosphere like dortmund etc - but yet when there is finally something happening you've been reluctant to give up time and get involved. the enthusiasm has gone ! the door is always open to anyone - it requires commitment though !!!
3rd tier prices DID have an effect because we know some of the guys that have gone up there and they went up there because it's cheaper. even though they sent their details across to us previously - thats a fact.
there's a core of less than 10 that do all the work. we'd love to have more doing more jobs. imagine how hard that is for the same people to have to do the same things week in week out. we invite people to join us timer after time to help out every time we do a display. we have opened the door on twitter, facebook (where we have thousands of followers) but the bottom line is that we have been putting the displays out and people just assume it will happen so whilst they like what we do they don't want to give up their time to get involved. we've accepted that and that's why there is a great bond between those in 1894 because they know they will never let each other down, they've come through problems together and made things happen against the odds. people who just expect everything to happen simply don't have a grasp on what it takes to make something happen and to get a wider crowd to buy into that.
we set up an internal forum. people can suggest displays, get involved raising money. no one bothers. you have a log in. you could've shaped things internally. but you just want to post on here instead, even when you have access - direct access to the people who are trying to make it happen
the one thing we said to you was not "we're reluctant to grow our numbers" what we said was, the citizens - over 100 pages of hype on bluemoon - got nowhere- the blue alliance - trashing coaches going to away games costing hundreds of pounds , smashing up services, singing munich walking through the services, losing the goodwill of other blues. achieved nothing. there was a thread on here about the bacary sagna song. imagine if we'd had made anyone and everyone a member. we'd then be getting grief from people saying "1894 group singing this terrible song" - we avoid these problems because we do things int he way we do. look for the committed people and bring them in for the long term. 2 of the main guys making decisions now were from that group "the citizens" - we identified they had something to offer even though their idea didn't get anywhere and we have not wanted that drive they had. it's there for anyone mate.
we brought together hundreds of new fans for the new block. hundreds. we don't know who they are but we gave people a chance to regroup and get singing if they want to. if we say you are all 1894 members, the first time something goes wrong then "1894" goes the same way as these other groups that have popped up and gone. you've got to have discipline and if you can't control who everyone is then you just have "donators" instead of "members" and that's how we work it. people on twitter and facebook have suggested displays and banners which we have gone with. it's totally there for everyone. what we said was we'll try and invite people in who we think have got the commitment levels because that's what we need but there is no closed group here.
palace "ultras" have been going 10 years , we have been going 2.5 years - palace's group was shit for the first 6/7 years. our displays in the first 3 months were better and better funded than theirs after 5-6 years. we have a corporate support now. it's not wall to wall young lads in our support. it;s 40 year olds, 50 year olds and so on. middle income earners. new fans. we have to work with what we've got. (nothing wrong with older fans btw, most of are lot are 30s,40s and 50s with a smattering of 20s - and most people who help with displays are 40s and 50s in age !) the smaller clubs don't have gloryhunters they have what we used to have a local fans base whose expecatations are lower and because most teams they play are bigger than them they can ramp up the atmosphere. unless its utd liverpool chelsea or arsenal we struggle. its harder for us to succeed than palace leicester watford or stoke.
we had to allow people who wanted to move a chance to sit with their mates and pick which area of the ground they wanted - top middle or bottom. a lot wanted the top so we had to spread singers out between 114 and 115. if people didn't get the choice to sit where they wanted, they would have just stayed in their previous seats and no-one would have moved, so we wouldn't have progressed anywhere.
we have people who suggest all sorts to us, bring a megaphone, bring a drum, keep it traditional, do this, do that. we try to go with a majority view and ensue there is no "them" and "us " between 114-115 and other blocks. we have raised probably 15-20K over the last 2.5 years and spent it all on displays and banners ! if we are slowly improving the atmosphere then it's working. plenty of us going home hoarse with hands ruined each week. clapping like demented seals. ultimately if people are clapped out or can't be arsed singing non stop like they do abroad then what can we do ? the pace of change can only arrive at the pace people want it to arrive.
a good job we don't give up easily or listen to everything out there because otherwise we'd never do anything ! you have to go with your own ideas and see them through.
we're replying with extra detail so that we hope you understand where we are coming from mate.
Last edited:
julio jordio
Well-Known Member
no some incorrect details here mate. now this isn't a personal pop but you simply have no idea of the personal levels of commitment that the main 1894 guys have been putting in. finding thousands. working on stuff late at night, middle of the night, putting City first above their families !!! you came to one painting session (thankyou) and you came to one event where we put foils out (thankyou again) - what you need to understand is that nothing happens with people getting involved. we regard you as a mate jrb thats true - but you have been on this forum over and over again over many years saying this should happen, that should happen, why can't we have an atmosphere like dortmund etc - but yet when there is finally something happening you've been reluctant to give up time and get involved. the enthusiasm has gone ! the door is always open to anyone - it requires commitment though !!!
3rd tier prices DID have an effect because we know some of the guys that have gone up there and they went up there because it's cheaper. even though they sent their details across to us previously - thats a fact.
there's a core of less than 10 that do all the work. we'd love to have more doing more jobs. imagine how hard that is for the same people to have to do the same things week in week out. we invite people to join us timer after time to help out every time we do a display. we have opened the door on twitter, facebook (where we have thousands of followers) but the bottom line is that we have been putting the displays out and people just assume it will happen so whilst they like what we do they don't want to give up their time to get involved. we've accepted that and that's why there is a great bond between those in 1894 because they know they will never let each other down, they've come through problems together and made things happen against the odds. people who just expect everything to happen simply don't have a grasp on what it takes to make something happen and to get a wider crowd to buy into that.
we set up an internal forum. people can suggest displays, get involved raising money. no one bothers. you have a log in. you could've shaped things internally. but you just want to post on here instead, even when you have access - direct access to the people who are trying to make it happen
the one thing we said to you was not "we're reluctant to grow our numbers" what we said was, the citizens - over 100 pages of hype on bluemoon - got nowhere- the blue alliance - trashing coaches going to away games costing hundreds of pounds , smashing up services, singing munich walking through the services, losing the goodwill of other blues. achieved nothing. there was a thread on here about the bacary sagna song. imagine if we'd had made anyone and everyone a member. we'd then be getting grief from people saying "1894 group singing this terrible song" - we avoid these problems because we do things int he way we do. look for the committed people and bring them in for the long term. 2 of the main guys making decisions now were from that group "the citizens" - we identified they had something to offer even though their idea didn't get anywhere and we have not wanted that drive they had. it's there for anyone mate.
we brought together hundreds of new fans for the new block. hundreds. we don't know who they are but we gave people a chance to regroup and get singing if they want to. if we say you are all 1894 members, the first time something goes wrong then "1894" goes the same way as these other groups that have popped up and gone. you've got to have discipline and if you can't control who everyone is then you just have "donators" instead of "members" and that's how we work it. people on twitter and facebook have suggested displays and banners which we have gone with. it's totally there for everyone. what we said was we'll try and invite people in who we think have got the commitment levels because that's what we need but there is no closed group here.
palace "ultras" have been going 10 years , we have been going 2.5 years - palace's group was shit for the first 6/7 years. our displays in the first 3 months were better and better funded than theirs after 5-6 years. we have a corporate support now. it's not wall to wall young lads in our support. it;s 40 year olds, 50 year olds and so on. middle income earners. new fans. we have to work with what we've got. (nothing wrong with older fans btw, most of are lot are 30s,40s and 50s with a smattering of 20s - and most people who help with displays are 40s and 50s in age !) the smaller clubs don't have gloryhunters they have what we used to have a local fans base whose expecatations are lower and because most teams they play are bigger than them they can ramp up the atmosphere. unless its utd liverpool chelsea or arsenal we struggle. its harder for us to succeed than palace leicester watford or stoke.
we had to allow people who wanted to move a chance to sit with their mates and pick which area of the ground they wanted - top middle or bottom. a lot wanted the top so we had to spread singers out between 114 and 115. if people didn't get the choice to sit where they wanted, they would have just stayed in their previous seats and no-one would have moved, so we wouldn't have progressed anywhere.
we have people who suggest all sorts to us, bring a megaphone, bring a drum, keep it traditional, do this, do that. we try to go with a majority view and ensue there is no "them" and "us " between 114-115 and other blocks. we have raised probably 15-20K over the last 2.5 years and spent it all on displays and banners ! if we are slowly improving the atmosphere then it's working. plenty of us going home hoarse with hands ruined each week. clapping like demented seals. ultimately if people are clapped out or can't be arsed singing non stop like they do abroad then what can we do ? the pace of change can only arrive at the pace people want it to arrive.
a good job we don't give up easily or listen to everything out there because otherwise we'd never do anything ! you have to go with your own ideas and see them through.
we're replying with extra detail so that we hope you understand where we are coming from mate.
Fair play to you mate.
julio jordio
Well-Known Member
'the pace of change can only arrive at the pace people want it to arrive'.