Attendances

[cleavers]

no some incorrect details here mate. now this isn't a personal pop but you simply have no idea of the personal levels of commitment that the main 1894 guys have been putting in. finding thousands. working on stuff late at night, middle of the night, putting City first above their families !!! you came to one painting session (thankyou) and you came to one event where we put foils out (thankyou again) - what you need to understand is that nothing happens with people getting involved. we regard you as a mate jrb thats true - but you have been on this forum over and over again over many years saying this should happen, that should happen, why can't we have an atmosphere like dortmund etc - but yet when there is finally something happening you've been reluctant to give up time and get involved. the enthusiasm has gone ! the door is always open to anyone - it requires commitment though !!!

3rd tier prices DID have an effect because we know some of the guys that have gone up there and they went up there because it's cheaper. even though they sent their details across to us previously - thats a fact.

there's a core of less than 10 that do all the work. we'd love to have more doing more jobs. imagine how hard that is for the same people to have to do the same things week in week out. we invite people to join us timer after time to help out every time we do a display. we have opened the door on twitter, facebook (where we have thousands of followers) but the bottom line is that we have been putting the displays out and people just assume it will happen so whilst they like what we do they don't want to give up their time to get involved. we've accepted that and that's why there is a great bond between those in 1894 because they know they will never let each other down, they've come through problems together and made things happen against the odds. people who just expect everything to happen simply don't have a grasp on what it takes to make something happen and to get a wider crowd to buy into that.

we set up an internal forum. people can suggest displays, get involved raising money. no one bothers. you have a log in. you could've shaped things internally. but you just want to post on here instead, even when you have access - direct access to the people who are trying to make it happen

the one thing we said to you was not "we're reluctant to grow our numbers" what we said was, the citizens - over 100 pages of hype on bluemoon - got nowhere- the blue alliance - trashing coaches going to away games costing hundreds of pounds , smashing up services, singing munich walking through the services, losing the goodwill of other blues. achieved nothing. there was a thread on here about the bacary sagna song. imagine if we'd had made anyone and everyone a member. we'd then be getting grief from people saying "1894 group singing this terrible song" - we avoid these problems because we do things int he way we do. look for the committed people and bring them in for the long term. 2 of the main guys making decisions now were from that group "the citizens" - we identified they had something to offer even though their idea didn't get anywhere and we have not wanted that drive they had. it's there for anyone mate.

we brought together hundreds of new fans for the new block. hundreds. we don't know who they are but we gave people a chance to regroup and get singing if they want to. if we say you are all 1894 members, the first time something goes wrong then "1894" goes the same way as these other groups that have popped up and gone. you've got to have discipline and if you can't control who everyone is then you just have "donators" instead of "members" and that's how we work it. people on twitter and facebook have suggested displays and banners which we have gone with. it's totally there for everyone. what we said was we'll try and invite people in who we think have got the commitment levels because that's what we need but there is no closed group here.

palace "ultras" have been going 10 years , we have been going 2.5 years - palace's group was shit for the first 6/7 years. our displays in the first 3 months were better and better funded than theirs after 5-6 years. we have a corporate support now. it's not wall to wall young lads in our support. it;s 40 year olds, 50 year olds and so on. middle income earners. new fans. we have to work with what we've got. (nothing wrong with older fans btw, most of are lot are 30s,40s and 50s with a smattering of 20s - and most people who help with displays are 40s and 50s in age !) the smaller clubs don't have gloryhunters they have what we used to have a local fans base whose expecatations are lower and because most teams they play are bigger than them they can ramp up the atmosphere. unless its utd liverpool chelsea or arsenal we struggle. its harder for us to succeed than palace leicester watford or stoke.

we had to allow people who wanted to move a chance to sit with their mates and pick which area of the ground they wanted - top middle or bottom. a lot wanted the top so we had to spread singers out between 114 and 115. if people didn't get the choice to sit where they wanted, they would have just stayed in their previous seats and no-one would have moved, so we wouldn't have progressed anywhere.

we have people who suggest all sorts to us, bring a megaphone, bring a drum, keep it traditional, do this, do that. we try to go with a majority view and ensue there is no "them" and "us " between 114-115 and other blocks. we have raised probably 15-20K over the last 2.5 years and spent it all on displays and banners ! if we are slowly improving the atmosphere then it's working. plenty of us going home hoarse with hands ruined each week. clapping like demented seals. ultimately if people are clapped out or can't be arsed singing non stop like they do abroad then what can we do ? the pace of change can only arrive at the pace people want it to arrive.
a good job we don't give up easily or listen to everything out there because otherwise we'd never do anything ! you have to go with your own ideas and see them through.
we're replying with extra detail so that we hope you understand where we are coming from mate.

I think most recognise you are doing your best, and appreciate your efforts, I'd come help with displays like tomorrow but I'm too far away to be there in time. Don't let the doubters get to you, what you're doing will, over time, work.

However I think you need to rethink where you are in the ground, I'm up in level three of the south stand (315), and we can't hear you up there. Howvever, there are many up around where I am who join in with the singing, and even start it, so as a group you need to be up there really, the roof projects the sound far better, and there are many up there who will make noise. Its a far better atmosphere for most games than I've witnessed for a long time, and for me, its where we should try and get the majority of singers. The drawback is cup games when we're all likely to be evicted.

 

[Newman Noggs]

no some incorrect details here mate. now this isn't a personal pop but you simply have no idea of the personal levels of commitment that the main 1894 guys have been putting in. finding thousands. working on stuff late at night, middle of the night, putting City first above their families !!! you came to one painting session (thankyou) and you came to one event where we put foils out (thankyou again) - what you need to understand is that nothing happens with people getting involved. we regard you as a mate jrb thats true - but you have been on this forum over and over again over many years saying this should happen, that should happen, why can't we have an atmosphere like dortmund etc - but yet when there is finally something happening you've been reluctant to give up time and get involved. the enthusiasm has gone ! the door is always open to anyone - it requires commitment though !!!

3rd tier prices DID have an effect because we know some of the guys that have gone up there and they went up there because it's cheaper. even though they sent their details across to us previously - thats a fact.

there's a core of less than 10 that do all the work. we'd love to have more doing more jobs. imagine how hard that is for the same people to have to do the same things week in week out. we invite people to join us timer after time to help out every time we do a display. we have opened the door on twitter, facebook (where we have thousands of followers) but the bottom line is that we have been putting the displays out and people just assume it will happen so whilst they like what we do they don't want to give up their time to get involved. we've accepted that and that's why there is a great bond between those in 1894 because they know they will never let each other down, they've come through problems together and made things happen against the odds. people who just expect everything to happen simply don't have a grasp on what it takes to make something happen and to get a wider crowd to buy into that.

we set up an internal forum. people can suggest displays, get involved raising money. no one bothers. you have a log in. you could've shaped things internally. but you just want to post on here instead, even when you have access - direct access to the people who are trying to make it happen

the one thing we said to you was not "we're reluctant to grow our numbers" what we said was, the citizens - over 100 pages of hype on bluemoon - got nowhere- the blue alliance - trashing coaches going to away games costing hundreds of pounds , smashing up services, singing munich walking through the services, losing the goodwill of other blues. achieved nothing. there was a thread on here about the bacary sagna song. imagine if we'd had made anyone and everyone a member. we'd then be getting grief from people saying "1894 group singing this terrible song" - we avoid these problems because we do things int he way we do. look for the committed people and bring them in for the long term. 2 of the main guys making decisions now were from that group "the citizens" - we identified they had something to offer even though their idea didn't get anywhere and we have not wanted that drive they had. it's there for anyone mate.

we brought together hundreds of new fans for the new block. hundreds. we don't know who they are but we gave people a chance to regroup and get singing if they want to. if we say you are all 1894 members, the first time something goes wrong then "1894" goes the same way as these other groups that have popped up and gone. you've got to have discipline and if you can't control who everyone is then you just have "donators" instead of "members" and that's how we work it. people on twitter and facebook have suggested displays and banners which we have gone with. it's totally there for everyone. what we said was we'll try and invite people in who we think have got the commitment levels because that's what we need but there is no closed group here.

palace "ultras" have been going 10 years , we have been going 2.5 years - palace's group was shit for the first 6/7 years. our displays in the first 3 months were better and better funded than theirs after 5-6 years. we have a corporate support now. it's not wall to wall young lads in our support. it;s 40 year olds, 50 year olds and so on. middle income earners. new fans. we have to work with what we've got. (nothing wrong with older fans btw, most of are lot are 30s,40s and 50s with a smattering of 20s - and most people who help with displays are 40s and 50s in age !) the smaller clubs don't have gloryhunters they have what we used to have a local fans base whose expecatations are lower and because most teams they play are bigger than them they can ramp up the atmosphere. unless its utd liverpool chelsea or arsenal we struggle. its harder for us to succeed than palace leicester watford or stoke.

we had to allow people who wanted to move a chance to sit with their mates and pick which area of the ground they wanted - top middle or bottom. a lot wanted the top so we had to spread singers out between 114 and 115. if people didn't get the choice to sit where they wanted, they would have just stayed in their previous seats and no-one would have moved, so we wouldn't have progressed anywhere.

we have people who suggest all sorts to us, bring a megaphone, bring a drum, keep it traditional, do this, do that. we try to go with a majority view and ensue there is no "them" and "us " between 114-115 and other blocks. we have raised probably 15-20K over the last 2.5 years and spent it all on displays and banners ! if we are slowly improving the atmosphere then it's working. plenty of us going home hoarse with hands ruined each week. clapping like demented seals. ultimately if people are clapped out or can't be arsed singing non stop like they do abroad then what can we do ? the pace of change can only arrive at the pace people want it to arrive.
a good job we don't give up easily or listen to everything out there because otherwise we'd never do anything ! you have to go with your own ideas and see them through.

we're replying with extra detail so that we hope you understand where we are coming from mate.

Excellent post and, I'm afraid, a reflection of society as a whole. Anyone who runs a club or association will recognise your description of the problems trying to organise a large number of people and, for what it's worth, in my experience, your tight control strategy is exactly the right one. Well done and don't get discouraged by naysayers and critics, the world is full of them. That isn't intended as a slight on jrb, by the way, who put in so much work on his coverage of the stadium construction which was enjoyed and appreciated by so many.

 

[jrb]

*no some incorrect details here mate. now this isn't a personal pop but you simply have no idea of the personal levels of commitment that the main 1894 guys have been putting in. finding thousands. working on stuff late at night, middle of the night, putting City first above their families !!! you came to one painting session (thankyou) and you came to one event where we put foils out (thankyou again) - what you need to understand is that nothing happens with people getting involved. we regard you as a mate jrb thats true - but you have been on this forum over and over again over many years saying this should happen, that should happen, why can't we have an atmosphere like dortmund etc - but yet when there is finally something happening you've been reluctant to give up time and get involved.*


That's unfair, D.

I've always been onboard from the start, whether by helping or supporting 1894 via this forum or verbally. And you know that! Every time I've mentioned 1894 Group on here, I've always backed and praised their efforts to improve the atmosphere at the Etihad.(other posters can vouch for that) I also know how much hard work you and the other lads have put into this project. I'm fully aware that the hard work doesn't just happen on a matchday, and you along with the other lads do much of the work in your own time. I've been there on a couple of occasions, as you rightly point out, to witness that.

As for helping out, I try and help as much as I can. Perhaps I could do more? Unfortunately personal circumstances dictated otherwise last year with my Mother being ill(as I explained on that Sunday) and sadly passing away. We've both taken time out for personal reasons recently. Family always comes first. I've helped out on the foils on numerous occasions, 'not just once'.(thank you) I would have helped out with the foils today against Palace, but I'm in work due to the inventory. I can't get out of it and I'm missing the match. I've said to you on numerous occasions that I will always do the foils and help 1894 when I can. Previously I had to work on a Saturday, 5am to 1.30pm,( which you knew) now I have a different job with Saturday's off, so helping with displays won't be a issue from now on. Yes, I could do the flags at the start of the match.

When I post on here about 1894(and the club), it's not a criticism of 1894. I'm not having a pop at you, the other lads, or the group in general, so please don't take it that way. I'm only thinking out loud. It is an open forum after all. Maybe that's why I received a less than warm welcome at the last match I attended? I'd like to think not, and to think it was all in my head? The ideas I post on here are one's that I think could further improve the atmosphere. Nobody has to take them on-board. Just like you, the other 1894 lads, and other BM forum members, all I want to do is to improve the atmosphere at the Etihad. In my opinion, posting a few positive ideas and 'honest observations' isn't a crime, and certainly shouldn't been seen as me criticising you or 1894, because it isn't.

Let me be honest. 1894 is important to me. But when it comes to my Family and my personal life, that will always come first, regardless. After that, other things follow, 1894 being one of them. I will help out when I can. If I can't for whatever reason, then I won't. If you need me to help out in the future, feel free to send me a text. If you don't, then good luck, and I sincerely hope 1894 goes from strength to strength, along with a much improved atmosphere at the Etihad.

 

[wearethesouthstand]

I think most recognise you are doing your best, and appreciate your efforts, I'd come help with displays like tomorrow but I'm too far away to be there in time. Don't let the doubters get to you, what you're doing will, over time, work.

However I think you need to rethink where you are in the ground, I'm up in level three of the south stand (315), and we can't hear you up there. Howvever, there are many up around where I am who join in with the singing, and even start it, so as a group you need to be up there really, the roof projects the sound far better, and there are many up there who will make noise. Its a far better atmosphere for most games than I've witnessed for a long time, and for me, its where we should try and get the majority of singers. The drawback is cup games when we're all likely to be evicted.

we can't hear you though cos we are singing ! and it was well communicated that singers go in the free blocks in between 111 and 116-118 because that means joining up all of tier 1. club offering cheaper tickets in tier 3 HAS meant another split in the singers just as we were trying to get them all together. nothing we can do about things like that, prices were set by people who we don't deal with and club only communicates what it wants to communicate to us. we are where we are with it.

 

[RabidCity]

I bought a value ticket this year

The three seats next to me have been empty, EVERY game. These people have bought tickets and will not show up at all.

I tried to buy one for a friend but was told it was sold to a seasoncard holder, in the end I bought one 20 rows away and they came and sat next to me anyway..

 

[Millwallawayveteran1988]

I think most recognise you are doing your best, and appreciate your efforts, I'd come help with displays like tomorrow but I'm too far away to be there in time. Don't let the doubters get to you, what you're doing will, over time, work.

However I think you need to rethink where you are in the ground, I'm up in level three of the south stand (315), and we can't hear you up there. Howvever, there are many up around where I am who join in with the singing, and even start it, so as a group you need to be up there really, the roof projects the sound far better, and there are many up there who will make noise. Its a far better atmosphere for most games than I've witnessed for a long time, and for me, its where we should try and get the majority of singers. The drawback is cup games when we're all likely to be evicted.

It's gone a bit quiet singing wise up in SS3 as it has in most of the ground for me. Maybe it's just the way we are playing at the moment. Seems little to get the crowd going, particularly in the first half.

 

[Tim of the Oak]

I bought a value ticket this year

The three seats next to me have been empty, EVERY game. These people have bought tickets and will not show up at all.

I tried to buy one for a friend but was told it was sold to a seasoncard holder, in the end I bought one 20 rows away and they came and sat next to me anyway..

You can guarantee this seats will be full for the Derby!

 

[Millwallawayveteran1988]

You can guarantee this seats will be full for the Derby!

Seems a bit odd spending £250 for one ticket. It's actually more likely to be a mistake by the ticket office who think the seats are sold but aren't. Maybe someone bought them, then relocated but it didn't release those seats.

 

[wearethesouthstand]

*no some incorrect details here mate. now this isn't a personal pop but you simply have no idea of the personal levels of commitment that the main 1894 guys have been putting in. finding thousands. working on stuff late at night, middle of the night, putting City first above their families !!! you came to one painting session (thankyou) and you came to one event where we put foils out (thankyou again) - what you need to understand is that nothing happens with people getting involved. we regard you as a mate jrb thats true - but you have been on this forum over and over again over many years saying this should happen, that should happen, why can't we have an atmosphere like dortmund etc - but yet when there is finally something happening you've been reluctant to give up time and get involved.*


That's unfair, D.

I've always been onboard from the start, whether by helping or supporting 1894 via this forum or verbally. And you know that! Every time I've mentioned 1894 Group on here, I've always backed and praised their efforts to improve the atmosphere at the Etihad.(other posters can vouch for that) I also know how much hard work you and the other lads have put into this project. I'm fully aware that the hard work doesn't just happen on a matchday, and you along with the other lads do much of the work in your own time. I've been there on a couple of occasions, as you rightly point out, to witness that.

As for helping out, I try and help as much as I can. Perhaps I could do more? Unfortunately personal circumstances dictated otherwise last year with my Mother being ill(as I explained on that Sunday) and sadly passing away. We've both taken time out for personal reasons recently. Family always comes first. I've helped out on the foils on numerous occasions, 'not just once'.(thank you) I would have helped out with the foils today against Palace, but I'm in work due to the inventory. I can't get out of it and I'm missing the match. I've said to you on numerous occasions that I will always do the foils and help 1894 when I can. Previously I had to work on a Saturday, 5am to 1.30pm,( which you knew) now I have a different job with Saturday's off, so helping with displays won't be a issue from now on. Yes, I could do the flags at the start of the match.

When I post on here about 1894(and the club), it's not a criticism of 1894. I'm not having a pop at you, the other lads, or the group in general, so please don't take it that way. I'm only thinking out loud. It is an open forum after all. Maybe that's why I received a less than warm welcome at the last match I attended? I'd like to think not, and to think it was all in my head? The ideas I post on here are one's that I think could further improve the atmosphere. Nobody has to take them on-board. Just like you, the other 1894 lads, and other BM forum members, all I want to do is to improve the atmosphere at the Etihad. In my opinion, posting a few positive ideas and 'honest observation' isn't a crime, and certainly shouldn't been seen as me criticising you or 1894, because it isn't.

Let me be honest. 1894 is important to me. But when it comes to my Family and my personal life, that will always come first, regardless. After that, other things follow, 1894 being one of them. I will help out when I can. If I can't for whatever reason, then I won't. If you need me to help out in the future, feel free to send me a text. If you don't, then good luck, and I sincerely hope 1894 goes from strength to strength, along with a much improved atmosphere at the Etihad.

hi bud. well last 2 texts I have sent you - you've not even replied - so yes I am afraid it is in your head, as we have been consistent in leaving the door open for you.. and anyone else for that matter !

it will not be as big as it is abroad unless more people volunteer time and help shape things. that's not a point aimed squarely at you. some of the points you have made from time to time, your own frustrations (many that we share but we have already given reasons why things are as they are) you would only have a better understanding of if you were closer to us.

we pop the odd thing on bluemoon for fundraising which can help occasionally but other than that we have found it's not the right forum for progressing the atmosphere at all because as soon as you post something you just get negativity and the people on here in the main would only ever talk about things from a distance and never get involved so we just use our own twitter and facebook and of course our internal forum which you had a log in for but never posted on. it's those things that can help because that way you are in constant communication with people running things. we've long given up on bluemoon. we had a 1894 forum on here for a few months to try and get people involved - you yourself (not the only one mind) didn't use that forum anything atmosphere wise just got posted onto the normal page where comments just get lost amongst all the other bitching between fans.

ultimately we love you to bits mate and one of main gripes when we see comments - such as your own - is that we think - why are people just posting the same sort of things on here, why haven't people realised that the only way to reach our goals quicker is to work with us directly and feed your own experiences into us first so we can give you a clear answer, rather than have people guessing about what may happening on the main board where the majority of people couldn't give a flying fk anyway !

anyway see you later and don't give up any progress is good. that's how we see it

 

[bugsyblue]

*no some incorrect details here mate. now this isn't a personal pop but you simply have no idea of the personal levels of commitment that the main 1894 guys have been putting in. finding thousands. working on stuff late at night, middle of the night, putting City first above their families !!! you came to one painting session (thankyou) and you came to one event where we put foils out (thankyou again) - what you need to understand is that nothing happens with people getting involved. we regard you as a mate jrb thats true - but you have been on this forum over and over again over many years saying this should happen, that should happen, why can't we have an atmosphere like dortmund etc - but yet when there is finally something happening you've been reluctant to give up time and get involved.*


That's unfair, D.

I've always been onboard from the start, whether by helping or supporting 1894 via this forum or verbally. And you know that! Every time I've mentioned 1894 Group on here, I've always backed and praised their efforts to improve the atmosphere at the Etihad.(other posters can vouch for that) I also know how much hard work you and the other lads have put into this project. I'm fully aware that the hard work doesn't just happen on a matchday, and you along with the other lads do much of the work in your own time. I've been there on a couple of occasions, as you rightly point out, to witness that.

As for helping out, I try and help as much as I can. Perhaps I could do more? Unfortunately personal circumstances dictated otherwise last year with my Mother being ill(as I explained on that Sunday) and sadly passing away. We've both taken time out for personal reasons recently. Family always comes first. I've helped out on the foils on numerous occasions, 'not just once'.(thank you) I would have helped out with the foils today against Palace, but I'm in work due to the inventory. I can't get out of it and I'm missing the match. I've said to you on numerous occasions that I will always do the foils and help 1894 when I can. Previously I had to work on a Saturday, 5am to 1.30pm,( which you knew) now I have a different job with Saturday's off, so helping with displays won't be a issue from now on. Yes, I could do the flags at the start of the match.

When I post on here about 1894(and the club), it's not a criticism of 1894. I'm not having a pop at you, the other lads, or the group in general, so please don't take it that way. I'm only thinking out loud. It is an open forum after all. Maybe that's why I received a less than warm welcome at the last match I attended? I'd like to think not, and to think it was all in my head? The ideas I post on here are one's that I think could further improve the atmosphere. Nobody has to take them on-board. Just like you, the other 1894 lads, and other BM forum members, all I want to do is to improve the atmosphere at the Etihad. In my opinion, posting a few positive ideas and 'honest observations' isn't a crime, and certainly shouldn't been seen as me criticising you or 1894, because it isn't.

Let me be honest. 1894 is important to me. But when it comes to my Family and my personal life, that will always come first, regardless. After that, other things follow, 1894 being one of them. I will help out when I can. If I can't for whatever reason, then I won't. If you need me to help out in the future, feel free to send me a text. If you don't, then good luck, and I sincerely hope 1894 goes from strength to strength, along with a much improved atmosphere at the Etihad.

Fuck me the last thing we need are people who actually care about the atmosphere falling out. I don't know JRB personally but he's always been a positive contributor and debator on here and he clearly cares a lot for the club. Equally 1894s work has been nothing short of impressive and without them I genuinely believe we'd have one, if not the, worst atmospheres in the prem.

1894 you have to remember though that what you do will always be a kind of thankless task. It's human nature that over time certain people will stop helping, for genuine reasons often, and others will stop praising you as your work becomes the norm. But please don't be disheartened or take it personally. You guys and gals are doing a terrific job.

We're all pretty sick of the majority of dire games (atmosphere wise) at home and we all love a good moan too. Some suggestions are great but the reality is very little will be put into practice. What might help is just for all of us to remember we are the 12th man and despite the wealth of the players, the talent tent have, sometimes they need us!

And the very last thing we need is to start falling out over opinions on a forum.