Benifit System in Britian

[BimboBob]

I made it clear that there would be no difference in earnings.

Would you rather do something you dislike than get it for free without working?

If it was either scrounging from the state or earning it then i would earn it. The trouble is once all the handouts are calculated (job seekers, rent, council tax etc) they will very nearly match an average wage so what's the reason for them going to work? (which is your point i know).

It stands to reason then...

Stop paying rent / council tax for the ones who can work but can't be arsed.

Yes it does.

The people who cheat the system aren't scum. We both agree that, like ourselves, they have a rational self-interest and would rather spend their one shot at life on their terms rather than their employers.

The system deserves abuse, not the people who abuse it.

So you are saying that a whole generation of abusers is ok by you because it's the systems fault?

Exactly where does a bit of pride in yourself come in to this? Satisfaction in a hard days graft and the money that it earns?

 

[metalblue]

You would rather spent time doing something you dislike than get if for free?

As far as earnings goes i would.

I made it clear that there would be no difference in earnings.

Would you rather do something you dislike than get it for free without working?

Oh boo-fucking-hoo everyone "dislikes" something about their jobs. If it was a job I hated with a passion I would still do it and earn my money, it's called having a bit of pride that. One side effect is the government can spend it on something far more useful to society such as schools or hospitals or perhaps pay a little more state pension to those that have paid their taxes all their working lives.

Everyone needs a helping hand from time to time and some folk need long term help due to reasons outside their control and I am glad we provide for them but those that choose benefits as a career choice need to pull their finger out of their arse and get looking for work.<br /><br />-- Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:58 pm --<br /><br />

The system deserves abuse, not the people who abuse it.

The system? Social security/welfare whatever you want to call it is not some victimless entity where "abusing" it has no consequence to others.

 

[johnny on the spot]

Thought this thread might have lured the Ginger Terror out of exile by now. Shame.

 

[mrcunny]

Thought this thread might have lured the Ginger Terror out of exile by now. Shame.

fat paul scholes?

 

[johnny on the spot]

Thought this thread might have lured the Ginger Terror out of exile by now. Shame.

fat paul scholes?

Not quite...

 

[scowy68]

I feel sorry for the fella that lives next door to my Mother,No work for years now,sits and drinks his beer every night whilst watching sky sports,draws the curtains about 6pm, lets out a big yawn you can hear next door,and takes himself off to bed.Must be a hard life.

 

[ElanJo]

It's so easy with a little bit of will power. You start off on the bottom rung and work your way up. Then take it as far as you want.

i.e. Join Tesco as an 18k pa handyman, go on one of their college schemes where you can become qualified in a trade while also earning a wage. Become a qualified electrician>>>>Wages go up to 26k pa. After a few years of on the job experience become self employed >>>> earn 50k pa. A few years later go to the bank and take a loan out to start your own business, employ a gang of electricians >>>> Earn 200k pa.

This pretty much applies to any job in the world. If you don't get off your arse, you'll never know.

If you think that all it takes is to get off your arse and have a little bit of will power you're an idiot.

I've been on JSE for the past few weeks since I graduated with a law degree from a top Uni and there is absolutely fuck all going for work. Do you think I should go and get on another education scheme aswel? I can guarantee that there will be just as few jobs when I get out of the course.

The system is an absolute mess to be fair, the advice I've got at the job office has been ridiculous, the worst part is getting told you're 'overqualified' for a job in asda or somewhere like that. Personally I couldn't give a crap what I'm doing as long as I get off benefits I'm not going to woman about a job like that but apparently I shouldn't apply according to the job office. I also got paid a months worth of payments without having to even visit the job office once, which is ridiculous I could have been sat on my arse for the last month doing sod all and still getting paid. Even when they ask for proof that you have been searching for jobs you don't need to give anything substantial its easy to see how people can sit on the dole week in week out and get complacent with it( and I know that isn't everyone) The system is a mess!


PS any jobs going give me a shout ;)

You're never "overqualified" for a job. You're only "overqualified" if you make yourself so by adding your higher qualifications to your CV. Just take them out...<br /><br />-- Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:05 pm --<br /><br />

The benefits system in principle is a good idea

This leaves you in the embarrassing situation where theft, in principle, is a good idea.

You can't be against theft and yet for the benefits system. One has got to give in order to avoid cognitive dissonance.

If you'd have said that helping people, in principle, is a good idea, I'd agree. The question is how do we go about that in a moral and practical manner? The benefits system does neither.

 

[Fame Monster]

but those that choose benefits as a career choice need to pull their finger out of their arse and get looking for work.

Under the current system, they don't. Hence, the reason for it being a choice.

If it was a job I hated with a passion I would still do it and earn my money, it's called having a bit of pride that.

Unless the pride of being seen to be working outweighs the extent of your hate for the job, you'd be acting irrationally. People who don't get pride from money, and instead prefer to spend life not 'working' but with their kids or on bluemoon or fishing, aren't worse people, they just value different things.

The system? Social security/welfare whatever you want to call it is not some victimless entity where "abusing" it has no consequence to others.

The same must be said for the ownership of property in a free-market system. When you work in such a system, you victimize others less fortunate than yourself. Just because the Establishment tells you that working in such a system is noble, doesn't make it right and doesn't absolve your responsibility from depriving others of land.

I'll make this my last point in this thread as I'm beginning to cover old ground.

It's easy to direct envy and hate towards your brothers and sisters when you've come home from a long day at work and pick up the Daily Mail or whatever, but you need to look at the bigger picture. We're all victims and sinners in this economic system, and we can carry on ratcheting up the hate or we could realise that the world constructed by the powerful is corrupt and needs tearing apart. It's up to you, but no-one is 'scum' and everyone is capable of civility and love towards each other.

 

[BoyBlue_1985]

but those that choose benefits as a career choice need to pull their finger out of their arse and get looking for work.

Under the current system, they don't. Hence, the reason for it being a choice.

If it was a job I hated with a passion I would still do it and earn my money, it's called having a bit of pride that.

Unless the pride of being seen to be working outweighs the extent of your hate for the job, you'd be acting irrationally. People who don't get pride from money, and instead prefer to spend life not 'working' but with their kids or on bluemoon or fishing, aren't worse people, they just value different things.

The system? Social security/welfare whatever you want to call it is not some victimless entity where "abusing" it has no consequence to others.

The same must be said for the ownership of property in a free-market system. When you work in such a system, you victimize others less fortunate than yourself. Just because the Establishment tells you that working in such a system is noble, doesn't make it right and doesn't absolve your responsibility from depriving others of land.

I'll make this my last point in this thread as I'm beginning to cover old ground.

It's easy to direct envy and hate towards your brothers and sisters when you've come home from a long day at work and pick up the Daily Mail or whatever, but you need to look at the bigger picture. We're all victims and sinners in this economic system, and we can carry on ratcheting up the hate or we could realise that the world constructed by the powerful is corrupt and needs tearing apart. It's up to you, but no-one is 'scum' and everyone is capable of civility and love towards each other.

Oh my god i must of tripped over and knocked my head because i just fell into the 1960's

 

[Halfpenny]

The benefits system in principle is a good idea

This leaves you in the embarrassing situation where theft, in principle, is a good idea.

You can't be against theft and yet for the benefits system. One has got to give in order to avoid cognitive dissonance.

If you'd have said that helping people, in principle, is a good idea, I'd agree. The question is how do we go about that in a moral and practical manner? The benefits system does neither.

Hang on, are you insinuating that people on benefits = thieves? While it is impossible to argue against the fact that there are some people who abuse the provision of welfare, those people who do wish to work (and in fact have done) have paid their taxes for that provision to be in place. It's there so that in your hour of need you can get the help you need.

So how else do you do it? We can't go back to the pre-Beveridge Report days of the state washing its hands of those too poor to help themselves. As someone pointed out it would mean some people would commit crime in order to feed their families. The provision of welfare is the least worst way of doing it, what is needed is practical assistance to help those stuck on benefits to gain new qualifications to broaden their horizons and help them back into work.