Better without De Jong?

speccybob said:
Imagine what it would be like with fully fit, in form centre backs and kompany could show us what he could do in the holding/defensive midfield role!!
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But do you feel we need a holding midfielder, as opposed to a midfielder who can attack and defend in equal measures?
 
ono said:
De Jong has been an interesting topic of debate over the last few weeks. Some feel he's a world class defensive midffielder and an integral part of the team, and some feel his all action defensive displays actually hold back the team...

Today it seems we played some top quality football. We had a nice flow to the team, and we stopped them creating chances purely by keeping hold of the ball.

So the question is, are we better without him in certain games? And, does he need to play on Wednesday?
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It's what we have been saying all along.

We play with much greater fluidity without him and today we employed two defensive midfielders who can shift the ball much quicker.

It's no coincidence that our win ratio without him in the side is much better.
 
The better standard off oppo the better he looks he can read a game brilliantly and stops so many attacks before they reach the defence if you watch him playing for Holland he is regulaly one of their best players play him against the top eight sides and use Viera against the rest
 
I think everyone these days needs someone in that holding/ defensive role. Maybe I'm wrong but name me a successful team without one.
 
u*d have fletcher and maybe not so much carrick? Arse have song and again maybe not so fabregas??? not too sure about inter as i'm not a big follower of italian football
 
A much slicker ,more fluid performance today without De Jong clogging things up (no pun intended). It was there for all to see. Everyone comfortable in possession and giving Fulham the runaround with the option of plenty of 'outlet balls'.

Just a routine, clinical 3 points without the need for reckless slide tackles, bicycle kick clearances, fist pumping and pointless snarling.

Well done Mancio for sussing things out.
 
Toure.....Kompany.....Lescott.....Bridge

.....................De Jong

..........Ireland/Vieira.......Barry

SWP/Johnson....Tevez..............Bellamy

I don't usually draw team formations, but I think this thread is the exception to my rule. NDJ should be employed as the sole defensive midfielder just as Madrid & Chelsea did with Makelele.

The above formation was Mourinho's blueprint for Chelsea during their glory years and I believe that by playing 2/3 defensive midfielders instead of 1 is where we have gone wrong this season.
 
It's a squad game these days, horses for courses.

Hate to say it but Ferguson tends to get it right most of the time.

Would expect Nigel to play at Arsenal away, but not Wigan at home !
 
OK... thought i'd be really sad and go through every competitive game this season and see how we've done with and without De Jong in the starting line-up.

Here are the stats:

WITH

P29: W14 D10 L5 F55 A36

Win % - 48
Unbeaten % - 66
Ave goals scored per game - 1.90
Ave goals conceded per game - 1.24

WITHOUT

P10: W7 D2 L1 F22 A13

Win % - 70
Unbeaten % - 90
Ave goals scored per game - 2.2
Ave goals conceded per game - 1.3

So there you have it. The evidence is quite clear... we are better without De Jong.
 
ono said:
C1TY4LIFE said:
Man United - Fletcher
Arsenal - Song
Inter Milan - Stankovic
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Well no because all of those players still pose a threat over the half way line, and neither of those players just 'sit' in front of the back 4 for 90 minutes.
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Well thats not down to the players, thats down to the managers tactics maybe Fergie/Wenger/Mourinho want there Holding Midfielders to push up but Mancini want ours to hold back as much as possible.
 
Tricky_Trev said:
OK... thought i'd be really sad and go through every competitive game this season and see how we've done with and without De Jong in the starting line-up.

Here are the stats:

WITH

P29: W14 D10 L5 F55 A36

Win % - 48
Unbeaten % - 66
Ave goals scored per game - 1.90
Ave goals conceded per game - 1.24

WITHOUT

P10: W7 D2 L1 F22 A13

Win % - 70
Unbeaten % - 90
Ave goals scored per game - 2.2
Ave goals conceded per game - 1.3

So there you have it. The eveidence is quite clear... we are better without De Jong.
Click to expand...
this good work
 
uwe282828 said:
Tricky_Trev said:
OK... thought i'd be really sad and go through every competitive game this season and see how we've done with and without De Jong in the starting line-up.

Here are the stats:

WITH

P29: W14 D10 L5 F55 A36

Win % - 48
Unbeaten % - 66
Ave goals scored per game - 1.90
Ave goals conceded per game - 1.24

WITHOUT

P10: W7 D2 L1 F22 A13

Win % - 70
Unbeaten % - 90
Ave goals scored per game - 2.2
Ave goals conceded per game - 1.3

So there you have it. The eveidence is quite clear... we are better without De Jong.
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this good work
Click to expand...

Not that I'm disputing the stats or anything but surely a manager or player clearly has a massively better or massively worse ration when only comparing 10 games to 30 games.

Anyway not many people noticed but when De Jong came on today he played in CENTRE MIDFIELD as Viera was tiring he sat back. NDJ managed to get a chance infront of goal and (I think) set up the SWP chance. Proving that he can play a different role when required, but as he is often told 'You are the anchorman' he does that role. Problem he has is he listens too well.
 
Yes I have been slated before by fellow BMers for suggesting benching de Jong and whether Mancini has the mental fortitude in a previous post herein & in my blogspot;
http://mancityblueplan.blogspot.com/2010/02/does-mancini-have-cojones.html
Yes, I agree with similar opinions, that at times he is more of a 'negative impact player' on City. That is when we had him in the lineup we lacked the 'Winning Edge'. I will go as far as to say that when we started him, as witnessed by Hughes misfortune or lack of foresight, we signal to the footballing world that we are looking for a draw. Case in point when we visited Anfield last we put forth a defensive team when Liverpool was ripe for the taking then.
Together with the numerous draws, winnable matches IMO, its no wonder Hughes was a 'DEAD MANager WALKING'. This 'defensive strategy or DRAW mentality' is inimical to our BLUE MasterPLAN, i.e. to foster a winning culture at City. No more MedioCrITY!

Forza Man City!
 
Mr Rich said:
uwe282828 said:
this good work
Click to expand...

Not that I'm disputing the stats or anything but surely a manager or player clearly has a massively better or massively worse ration when only comparing 10 games to 30 games.

Anyway not many people noticed but when De Jong came on today he played in CENTRE MIDFIELD as Viera was tiring he sat back. NDJ managed to get a chance infront of goal and (I think) set up the SWP chance. Proving that he can play a different role when required, but as he is often told 'You are the anchorman' he does that role. Problem he has is he listens too well.
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yes this is true, but fulham were comitting soo many forward there was alot of space. and as for swp cmoon at least hit the target.
 
Never been a fan of De Jong and I think the notion that it's OK to have a player of limited ability in your side as long as they tackle a lot is ludicrous. I thought the team looked better today because we had an extra footballer in the middle.

-- Mon Mar 22, 2010 8:43 am --

Mr Rich said:
uwe282828 said:
this good work
Click to expand...

Not that I'm disputing the stats or anything but surely a manager or player clearly has a massively better or massively worse ration when only comparing 10 games to 30 games.

Anyway not many people noticed but when De Jong came on today he played in CENTRE MIDFIELD as Viera was tiring he sat back. NDJ managed to get a chance infront of goal and (I think) set up the SWP chance. Proving that he can play a different role when required, but as he is often told 'You are the anchorman' he does that role. Problem he has is he listens too well.
Click to expand...
He does what he can, he's not good enough to play that position, I rumbled DJ last season as one of Hughe's worst buys and the negative way he effects the team around him. Better without unless we're absolutely under the cosh and I think we're hoping that's not going to happen too often in the future!<br /><br />-- Mon Mar 22, 2010 8:47 am --<br /><br />
C1TY4LIFE said:
ono said:
Well no because all of those players still pose a threat over the half way line, and neither of those players just 'sit' in front of the back 4 for 90 minutes.
Click to expand...

Well thats not down to the players, thats down to the managers tactics maybe Fergie/Wenger/Mourinho want there Holding Midfielders to push up but Mancini want ours to hold back as much as possible.
Click to expand...
No, it's DJ's game, neither of those three are defensive midfielders, a position that was invented for midfielders who can't run, pass or shoot.
 
ono said:
speccybob said:
I think everyone these days needs someone in that holding/ defensive role. Maybe I'm wrong but name me a successful team without one.
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Man United, Arsenal, Inter Milan
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I know this will be an unpopular thing to say, but if De Jong offered half as much threat driving forward as Fletcher does, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. De Jong is very, very good at what he does, and while Fletcher plays a similar "spoiler" role for the rags, he is more of an all-round midfielder who can help drive the team forward. I just wish De Jong could add a bit of this aspect to his game.

It's probably true to say that every team needs a "holding" midfielder these days, but that player doesn't have to take the role to quite the extremes that our Nige does. He shouldn't just permanently sit in front of the back four playing square/backwards balls. He needs to add a little bit extra to his game, in my opinion, if he is going to become one of the very best midfielders around.
 
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