Bloody Sunday: Soldier F faces murder charges

Its also showing yet more misunderstanding of the GFA...many people just thought all crimes were wiped off the slate...they werent.

There were concessions made to some at the time, to release a number of convicted prisoners...to help get the peace agreement across the line. Nobody agreed to let all uninvestigated or unconvicted crimes be forgotten.
The piece i posted previously has some good info.

Cheers. May read that later - it's quite long! You'll know infinitely more about the details than me.

I think the first reply was "this isn't what you promised 18 months ago, or anything like it". It didn't get much more polite. I don't think the excuse of "but it's too difficult" will placate anyone who thinks that the UK govt have been the ones obstructing providing information.
 
no, because i cant be arsed pouring over a huge legal document....and there is no such entry.

However i know that the release of prisoners did not extend to EVERYONE...it was afforded to approximately 500 convicted terrorists (loyalist and republican)...who met very specific criteria, with strict conditions.

Investigations into terrorist related crimes did not stop, they continued. If they did stop...why is Brandon Lewis only proposing/implementing amnesty for terrorists and officers today?

What i will point you in the direction of is this government document that highlights:

The 1998 Good Friday Agreement made no provision for the investigation or prosecution of former members of the Armed Forces, focusing instead upon the early release of prisoners affiliated to paramilitary organisations. There was no amnesty for crimes which had not yet been prosecuted.


In case you feel the need to suggest i am some sort of anti british, terrorist sympathiser, id like to mention (if you didnt know) that my dad was a serving officer in the UDR (RIR) when he died, prior to the GFA.
Ok, but from where I'm sitting it seems that investigations into alleged offences by soldiers are being pursued with more vigour than those by terrorists. You say that investigations into terrorist related crimes did not stop but perhaps you can explain to us all why, since the signing of the GFA, there has seemingly been no appetite whatsoever to bring those responsible for the largest peacetime bomb ever detonated on UK soil to account, despite it happening less than 2 years before the GFA agreement was signed and even though the authorities have their suspicions as to who was responsible. And while I'm at it, I'll go back to The Disappeared - is there an active investigation ongoing into that?

Edit: I've just read that rather long piece you posted above which answers some of my questions
 
Ok, but from where I'm sitting it seems that investigations into alleged offences by soldiers are being pursued with more vigour than those by terrorists. You say that investigations into terrorist related crimes did not stop but perhaps you can explain to us all why, since the signing of the GFA, there has seemingly been no appetite whatsoever to bring those responsible for the largest peacetime bomb ever detonated on UK soil to account, despite it happening less than 2 years before the GFA agreement was signed and even though the authorities have their suspicions as to who was responsible. And while I'm at it, I'll go back to The Disappeared - is there an active investigation ongoing into that?

Edit: I've just read that rather long piece you posted above which answers some of my questions

Recent prosecutions

The perception that investigators are unfairly targeting cases involving military personnel has been confounded by decisions over the last few years by the Director of Public Prosecutions for Northern Ireland to bring prosecutions against a number of former Army personnel. To date, six former military personnel have been charged with offences relating to the Troubles, including the events of Bloody Sunday. The most recent prosecution case was announced in April 2019.

However, the PPS for Northern Ireland has also sought to make clear that of the 26 prosecution cases brought since 2011 in relation to legacy issues, 21 of those cases have involved republican and loyalist paramilitaries. Several of those cases are ongoing.


Not wishing to diminish the impact of the IRAs Manchester bomb, but "our bomb was bigger than your bomb" isnt something that will put you to the top of the HUGE list of investigations...and dare i say, importantly, investigations where people were killed. Also, the Historical Investigations Unit were (initially) tasked with investigating chronologically. I mean, how long did it take for a proper investigation in to the Omagh Bomb, which killed 29 people? Or was the Manchester bomb more important?

The disappeared....

 
Recent prosecutions

The perception that investigators are unfairly targeting cases involving military personnel has been confounded by decisions over the last few years by the Director of Public Prosecutions for Northern Ireland to bring prosecutions against a number of former Army personnel. To date, six former military personnel have been charged with offences relating to the Troubles, including the events of Bloody Sunday. The most recent prosecution case was announced in April 2019.

However, the PPS for Northern Ireland has also sought to make clear that of the 26 prosecution cases brought since 2011 in relation to legacy issues, 21 of those cases have involved republican and loyalist paramilitaries. Several of those cases are ongoing.


Not wishing to diminish the impact of the IRAs Manchester bomb, but "our bomb was bigger than your bomb" isnt something that will put you to the top of the HUGE list of investigations...and dare i say, importantly, investigations where people were killed. Also, the Historical Investigations Unit were (initially) tasked with investigating chronologically. I mean, how long did it take for a proper investigation in to the Omagh Bomb, which killed 29 people? Or was the Manchester bomb more important?

The disappeared....

Thanks. Regarding the bolded bit, I think you're forgetting that the Omagh bombing happened after the signing of the GFA and as such was always going to be thoroughly investigated regardless of the death toll.
As for the six main suspects for the Manchester bombing, they were sentenced to 35 years each in jail for other terrorist offences shortly afterwards and were all released by July 2000. Serving 4 years of a 35 year sentence doesn't sit right with me, regardless of whether they're Republicans or Loyalists.
 
Thanks. Regarding the bolded bit, I think you're forgetting that the Omagh bombing happened after the signing of the GFA and as such was always going to be thoroughly investigated regardless of the death toll.
As for the six main suspects for the Manchester bombing, they were sentenced to 35 years each in jail for other terrorist offences shortly afterwards and were all released by July 2000. Serving 4 years of a 35 year sentence doesn't sit right with me, regardless of whether they're Republicans or Loyalists.
Its a little bit crass to suggest the Omagh bomb was investigated purely because it was after the GFA...id like to think that 29 dead people is a decent enough reason to investigate. Trust me, being called into work at the Royal Hospital on the day means ill not be forgetting it.

What investigation into the Manchester bomb are you looking for? 6 people were caught, tried and convicted for the crime...admittedly, they were released under the GFA....but they were still convicted.

Should the same due process not happen to Soldier F and others accused of breaking not only military/service law, but civil law as well?

What happens thereafter is another debate....but you know fine rightly that no convicted soldier will spend time in jail.

Again, not taking away from the impact of the Manchester bomb....im very well aware of what they can do...but if 6 men can get 35 years for a bomb that "only" injured 200 people, what should a soldier get for the murder of 2 people and attempted murder of 4 others?
 
Its a little bit crass to suggest the Omagh bomb was investigated purely because it was after the GFA...id like to think that 29 dead people is a decent enough reason to investigate. Trust me, being called into work at the Royal Hospital on the day means ill not be forgetting it.

What investigation into the Manchester bomb are you looking for? 6 people were caught, tried and convicted for the crime...admittedly, they were released under the GFA....but they were still convicted.

Should the same due process not happen to Soldier F and others accused of breaking not only military/service law, but civil law as well?

What happens thereafter is another debate....but you know fine rightly that no convicted soldier will spend time in jail.

Again, not taking away from the impact of the Manchester bomb....im very well aware of what they can do...but if 6 men can get 35 years for a bomb that "only" injured 200 people, what should a soldier get for the murder of 2 people and attempted murder of 4 others?
Perhaps you missed it in my previous post but the six were never brought to book for the Manchester bomb - they were convicted of other terrorist offences so no, they haven't served a single day for that offence.

As for your last paragraph, you seem to be doing the exact thing that you claim not to be doing. Also, you do realise that it's an absolute fucking miracle that no-one was killed don't you?
 
Perhaps you missed it in my previous post but the six were never brought to book for the Manchester bomb - they were convicted of other terrorist offences so no, they haven't served a single day for that offence.

As for your last paragraph, you seem to be doing the exact thing that you claim not to be doing. Also, you do realise that it's an absolute fucking miracle that no-one was killed don't you?
Apologies, i misread your post....maybe they didnt do it? So that crime is likely amongst the long list of other crimes still being investigated...but im sure our wonderful powers-that-be have appropriately organised them against priority.

Of course there should be an investigation, and the b*stards who did it should be held to account.

Miracle? No. Lucky? Yes.

Im not taking away from the impact of that attack...im highlighting that in the grand scheme of things, the investigatory bodies/government/police etc dont seem to think a specific inquiry is needed, above the specific investigation....but this is getting sidetracked from the main topic. I respectfully suggest your initial claims are misguided.
 
Apologies, i misread your post....maybe they didnt do it? So that crime is likely amongst the long list of other crimes still being investigated...but im sure our wonderful powers-that-be have appropriately organised them against priority.

Of course there should be an investigation, and the b*stards who did it should be held to account.

Miracle? No. Lucky? Yes.

Im not taking away from the impact of that attack...im highlighting that in the grand scheme of things, the investigatory bodies/government/police etc dont seem to think a specific inquiry is needed, above the specific investigation....but this is getting sidetracked from the main topic. I respectfully suggest your initial claims are misguided.
Maybe they didn’t do it but often with terrorist attacks related to The Troubles they have a damn good idea who did do it. Sure, they get it wrong at times - Guildford Four and the Birmingham Six being examples - but they do tend to have a lot of intelligence on suspected terrorists.

You’re right - my initial claims were misguided. Always happy to hold my hands up if I’m wrong but it’ll be interesting to know how many pre-GFA crimes do end up in prosecutions further down the line.
 
Maybe they didn’t do it but often with terrorist attacks related to The Troubles they have a damn good idea who did do it. Sure, they get it wrong at times - Guildford Four and the Birmingham Six being examples - but they do tend to have a lot of intelligence on suspected terrorists.

You’re right - my initial claims were misguided. Always happy to hold my hands up if I’m wrong but it’ll be interesting to know how many pre-GFA crimes do end up in prosecutions further down the line.
They absolutely do....but it has become evident over the years (but hopefully not in this case) that there was a lot of collusion between all sides....some suspects were more "important" than others and access to intelligence deemed more useful than convictions.....

The crimes will, slowly, be investigated...but they'll never finish them....and imo this recent plans of Brandon Lewis are just them trying to forget/ignore/delete them all :-(
 

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