Bluemoon labour thread.

[Skashion]

I've got no problem getting rid of the monarchy but it's quite possible to change an electoral system without getting rid of them.

Germany has a president, Chancellor (like our PM) and is split up into states.

and?

 

[mat]

 

[Corky]

Germany has a president, Chancellor (like our PM) and is split up into states.

and?

Yeah you are right, we can have a President and Queen.

 

[Skashion]

and?

Yeah you are right, we can have a President and Queen.

We can certainly have a Prime Minister and a Queen. All we were talking about was having one vote for a local candidate and a national vote for a party. I don't believe the issue of a republic was raised, and nor is there a reason for it to be raised. It's a separate issue.

 

[DTeacher]

The German system does give you that option. The German electoral system gives you two votes, one for an individual at the local level, and one at the national level for a party. I'd have the German model in a heartbeat. Much better than ours.

I didn't know that- as things stand I too think that would be a vast improvement on the current system.

^^^ Put me down for that as well. ^^^

 

[1_barry_conlon]

The tories are even bigger bullshitters. Members of the Bullingdon Club who have the audacity to claim they know and care about the plight of the average working person. For those who don't know what the Bullingdon Club is, basically, they went around destroying things for fun just because they could afford to pay for the damages. Davy (who is related to the Queen - and who allegedly received political favours during his early career courtesy of Buckingham Palace) Cameron and George Osborne were both members. They'd spend more in one pissed up damage orgy than most people make in a year. Yeah, they're down with the proles. After all, they want us to hug a hoodie. Word.

Now take a deep breath and tell us all how there are more public/private school oxbridge educated chaps and chappesses in the Labour government than there is in the shadow government? Comes to something when the likes of the multi-millionaire and Sainsburys heir to be Shaun Woodward defect from the Tories to Labour. He must have realised he was on a better screw with Tony's cronies and could amass even more of his millions, very socialist that isn't it?

Don't let the truth get in the way of a good story though?

Can't believe the amount of people on here who still fall for the 'labour/working class' mantra. You could put a fucking red rosette on a chimp and you'd still vote for it.

Funny how all the leading lights of socialism have all come from privileged backgrounds, starting with Engels and going all the way through to Lord Wedgy Benn and that scruffy draft dodging cnut Foot. And we've not even mentioned that schyster Kinnock.Remember him, did he want the Lords abolished before he became a Lord as well? Nothing to do with values from any of them and more to do with guilt.

Off the top of my head there are only 2 labour MP's who you could actually call a 'proper' labour MP. Frank Field and Dennis Skinner, the rest are just as bigger slimeballs as the Tories you profess to despise.

Frank Allaun must be spinning in his grave.

 

[adelaideblue]

Then you are extremely naive. A party can win an election with less votes than another. It's actually happened in the past. The party that wins an election is the party than wins the marginals and swing voters, without exception.

When?

just had our state election and that actually happened in south australia, libs had the majority of votes but labor won a number of very marginal seats to retain office - use the same westminster system.

 

[Skashion]

The tories are even bigger bullshitters. Members of the Bullingdon Club who have the audacity to claim they know and care about the plight of the average working person. For those who don't know what the Bullingdon Club is, basically, they went around destroying things for fun just because they could afford to pay for the damages. Davy (who is related to the Queen - and who allegedly received political favours during his early career courtesy of Buckingham Palace) Cameron and George Osborne were both members. They'd spend more in one pissed up damage orgy than most people make in a year. Yeah, they're down with the proles. After all, they want us to hug a hoodie. Word.

Now take a deep breath and tell us all how there are more public/private school oxbridge educated chaps and chappesses in the Labour government than there is in the shadow government? Comes to something when the likes of the multi-millionaire and Sainsburys heir to be Shaun Woodward defect from the Tories to Labour. He must have realised he was on a better screw with Tony's cronies and could amass even more of his millions, very socialist that isn't it?

Don't let the truth get in the way of a good story though?

Can't believe the amount of people on here who still fall for the 'labour/working class' mantra. You could put a fucking red rosette on a chimp and you'd still vote for it.

Funny how all the leading lights of socialism have all come from privileged backgrounds, starting with Engels and going all the way through to Lord Wedgy Benn and that scruffy draft dodging cnut Foot. And we've not even mentioned that schyster Kinnock.Remember him, did he want the Lords abolished before he became a Lord as well? Nothing to do with values from any of them and more to do with guilt.

Off the top of my head there are only 2 labour MP's who you could actually call a 'proper' labour MP. Frank Field and Dennis Skinner, the rest are just as bigger slimeballs as the Tories you profess to despise.

Frank Allaun must be spinning in his grave.

No, no, no. Don't let facts get in the way of your good story. I didn't once mention private (public) school or Oxbridge. I mentioned the Bullingdon Club. What I was arguing against was needless wanton destruction purely because the person had enough money to pay for damages. I happen to think that is just disgusting and completely unjustifiable behaviour. You seem labouring under the delusion that I think the Labour party is socialist. What I've actually said is 'Thatcherism with a smiling face'/'lesser of two evils'. I've also said a hung parliament would be the best outcome of the election - thus implying I don't trust any of the major parties to run the country well and I'd be happier knowing that the damage they can inflict would be minimised.

You do have a point in that many of the most famous socialists have come from wealthy and privileged positions. Often tends, I think, to be because intellectuals favour left-wing ideologies and in times gone by only rich people could afford to become educated and certainly only the rich could afford to write about it. Even the likes of Orwell and Marx, who ended up living in genuine poverty at some point in their lives, were born into families which could afford to give them a good education.

Again, I also despise New Labour. I also think they're slimeballs. I just think the tories are worse.

 

[cityman14364]

i wasnt going to vote labour but am now, since cameron promises a referendum,then back tracks, still has spineless bald eagle hague behind him,bit like having jack the ripper behind you, camerons flustering on gay rights , and forget ye not.. a certain tory chancellor once couldnt afford to pay his own credit card bill,so what would he do with our money? and you may notice inflation is more or less 3% interest rates virtually zero, can you trust tories with inflation? theyve never mastered it,so on all these issues, why bother change? bnp are a disgrace,ukip lib dem is a mere waste of a vote,so for me its better the devil you know<br /><br />-- Fri Mar 26, 2010 6:56 pm --<br /><br />i wasnt going to vote labour but am now, since cameron promises a referendum,then back tracks, still has spineless bald eagle hague behind him,bit like having jack the ripper behind you, camerons flustering on gay rights , and forget ye not.. a certain tory chancellor once couldnt afford to pay his own credit card bill,so what would he do with our money? and you may notice inflation is more or less 3% interest rates virtually zero, can you trust tories with inflation? theyve never mastered it,so on all these issues, why bother change? bnp are a disgrace,ukip lib dem is a mere waste of a vote,so for me its better the devil you know

 

[KpxSte]

i wasnt going to vote labour but am now, since cameron promises a referendum,then back tracks, still has spineless bald eagle hague behind him,bit like having jack the ripper behind you, camerons flustering on gay rights , and forget ye not.. a certain tory chancellor once couldnt afford to pay his own credit card bill,so what would he do with our money? and you may notice inflation is more or less 3% interest rates virtually zero, can you trust tories with inflation? theyve never mastered it,so on all these issues, why bother change? bnp are a disgrace,ukip lib dem is a mere waste of a vote,so for me its better the devil you know

I assume you're talking about the referendum on Europe and I'd just like to know how you voted in the one that Labour promised in their manifesto? I have no idea what you're talking about with regards to the tory chancellor but I guess it would be a risk that he'd steer us into the worst recession in 60 years with record national debt! Maybe we should stick with the devil we know because after all they must be running out of lies to tell us.

 

[Skashion]

i wasnt going to vote labour but am now, since cameron promises a referendum,then back tracks, still has spineless bald eagle hague behind him,bit like having jack the ripper behind you, camerons flustering on gay rights , and forget ye not.. a certain tory chancellor once couldnt afford to pay his own credit card bill,so what would he do with our money? and you may notice inflation is more or less 3% interest rates virtually zero, can you trust tories with inflation? theyve never mastered it,so on all these issues, why bother change? bnp are a disgrace,ukip lib dem is a mere waste of a vote,so for me its better the devil you know

but I guess it would be a risk that he'd steer us into the worst recession in 60 years with record national debt!

Yeah, because the recession is confined only to Britain. It's not global or anything...

 

[terryphelan]

i wasnt going to vote labour but am now, since cameron promises a referendum,then back tracks, still has spineless bald eagle hague behind him,bit like having jack the ripper behind you, camerons flustering on gay rights , and forget ye not.. a certain tory chancellor once couldnt afford to pay his own credit card bill,so what would he do with our money? and you may notice inflation is more or less 3% interest rates virtually zero, can you trust tories with inflation? theyve never mastered it,so on all these issues, why bother change? bnp are a disgrace,ukip lib dem is a mere waste of a vote,so for me its better the devil you know

Cameron has NOT backtracked on Europe. The Treaty has been ratified so it is now illegal to hold a referendum on it. Labour are the ones who COULD have had a referendum, promised it, then went back on that promise.

The Tories COULD have a referendum but the question would have to be Europe: yes or no? Polls suggest that the public would vote yes, in which case we would be tied to European dictation for at least the next 30 yrs.

Just wanted to clear that up!

 

[denislawsbackheel]

i wasnt going to vote labour but am now, since cameron promises a referendum,then back tracks, still has spineless bald eagle hague behind him,bit like having jack the ripper behind you, camerons flustering on gay rights , and forget ye not.. a certain tory chancellor once couldnt afford to pay his own credit card bill,so what would he do with our money? and you may notice inflation is more or less 3% interest rates virtually zero, can you trust tories with inflation? theyve never mastered it,so on all these issues, why bother change? bnp are a disgrace,ukip lib dem is a mere waste of a vote,so for me its better the devil you know

Cameron has NOT backtracked on Europe. The Treaty has been ratified so it is now illegal to hold a referendum on it. Labour are the ones who COULD have had a referendum, promised it, then went back on that promise.

The Tories COULD have a referendum but the question would have to be Europe: yes or no? Polls suggest that the public would vote yes, in which case we would be tied to European dictation for at least the next 30 yrs.

Just wanted to clear that up!

All you've cleared up is any doubt people may have had that you're a Tory fan boy!

 

[terryphelan]

Cameron has NOT backtracked on Europe. The Treaty has been ratified so it is now illegal to hold a referendum on it. Labour are the ones who COULD have had a referendum, promised it, then went back on that promise.

The Tories COULD have a referendum but the question would have to be Europe: yes or no? Polls suggest that the public would vote yes, in which case we would be tied to European dictation for at least the next 30 yrs.

Just wanted to clear that up!

All you've cleared up is any doubt people may have had that you're a Tory fan boy!

only in the sense that if they get in my wallet is better off and my family benefit.

Most of my relatives vote labour.

 

[KpxSte]

but I guess it would be a risk that he'd steer us into the worst recession in 60 years with record national debt!

Yeah, because the recession is confined only to Britain. It's not global or anything...

Labour took the credit when the economy was growing but as soon as it goes tits up it becomes "global". Gordon saved/led the world out of the recession but why was Britain one of the last to emerge and why are we one of the most in debt?

 

[hilts]

Yeah, because the recession is confined only to Britain. It's not global or anything...

Labour took the credit when the economy was growing but as soon as it goes tits up it becomes "global". Gordon saved/led the world out of the recession but why was Britain one of the last to emerge and why are we one of the most in debt?

its very depressing that people will still vote for labour after the last 13 years, it makes you wonder if the country will ever recover again

 

[Helmet Cole]

It's nice to see so many people still think there is a difference between labour and conservative. Can't see it myself.

 

[hilts]

It's nice to see so many people still think there is a difference between labour and conservative. Can't see it myself.

they all try to appeal to the masses but end up appealing to no one, tinkering gets you nowhere, i dont believe socialism works but i suppose those who do used to at least have someone to vote for, i think old labour supporters should really vote lib dem

 

[Helmet Cole]

It's nice to see so many people still think there is a difference between labour and conservative. Can't see it myself.

they all try to appeal to the masses but end up appealing to no one, tinkering gets you nowhere, i dont believe socialism works but i suppose those who do used to at least have someone to vote for, i think old labour supporters should really vote lib dem

I agree, but the libs just seem so ananymous now that I think it may just be a protest vote - sort of like the PC version of voting BNP

 

[hilts]

they all try to appeal to the masses but end up appealing to no one, tinkering gets you nowhere, i dont believe socialism works but i suppose those who do used to at least have someone to vote for, i think old labour supporters should really vote lib dem

I agree, but the libs just seem so ananymous now that I think it may just be a protest vote - sort of like the PC version of voting BNP

yeah it is catch 22 for them, no one votes for them because they dont think they can win