Bluemoon labour thread.

[Corky]

Law74, you don't even know what PFI stands for.

Why on earth do you think the money gets paid twice?

No money gets paid at all until the initial buildings/improvements etc are complete, and if targets are not met money does need need to be paid.

For future reference PFI means Private Finance Initiative.

 

[law74]

Law74, you don't even know what PFI stands for.

Why on earth do you think the money gets paid twice?

No money gets paid at all until the initial buildings/improvements etc are complete, and if targets are not met money does need need to be paid.

For future reference PFI means Private Finance Initiative.

I am well aware of PFI and public private partnerships, and am also well aware that it is another attempt to privatise services by guile and corruption.
For a bit of reading i suggest you check out
In government we trust : market failure and the delusions of privatisation / Warwick Funnell, Robert Jupe, Jane Andrew
here is a link for you to buy the book and see for yourself the true cost
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Government-We-Trust-Delusions-Privatisation/dp/0745329071" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.amazon.co.uk/Government-We-T ... 0745329071</a>

Still dont believe me? Read Allison Pollocks comments
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/feb/01/3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/feb/01/3</a>

Still not satisfied?
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.allyson-pollock.com/uploads/2/3/5/5/2355176/economicaffairs_2009_privatefinancingnhs_hellowell.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.allyson-pollock.com/uploads/ ... lowell.pdf</a>

Have a read and make your own conclusions. I know where i stand on this matter.

 

[Corky]

"delusions of privatisation" Tory policy was privatise everything they could,

 

[law74]

"delusions of privatisation" Tory policy was privatise everything they could,

& nu-labour are continuing the theme, east coast mainline, Metronet and The Third Way in London being three that spring to mind. you seem to think that I am some right wing tory voter, and you counldnt be further from the truth, although if 5 years of tory misrule was what is required for the labour party to get back to its core values then it MIGHT be a price worth paying (although god knows what state the country would be in by then).

 

[Skashion]

"delusions of privatisation" Tory policy was privatise everything they could,

& nu-labour are continuing the theme, east coast mainline, Metronet and The Third Way in London being three that spring to mind. you seem to think that I am some right wing tory voter, and you counldnt be further from the truth, although if 5 years of tory misrule was what is required for the labour party to get back to its core values then it MIGHT be a price worth paying (although god knows what state the country would be in by then).

Labour cannot go back to its core values under this electoral system and form a government. The two are mutually-exclusive. If Labour goes back to its core values then we will have indefinite tory government. I'm surprised eighteen years of tory misrule hasn't made that abundantly clear.

 

[Seosa]

Labour cannot go back to its core values under this electoral system and form a government. The two are mutually-exclusive. If Labour goes back to its core values then we will have indefinite tory government. I'm surprised eighteen years of tory misrule hasn't made that abundantly clear.

Compare 18 years of Tory 'misrule' as you put it to 13 years of Labour CANCER

 

[kronkonite]

Be interesting to ask
if labour were to return to it's core values are you more or less likely to vote for them?

WE at the very least need to get rid of the power mad Brown.Mandelson axis

and fuck the parliamentary labour party off completely

and select our own representatives from our own communities

 

[hilts]

Be interesting to ask
if labour were to return to it's core values are you more or less likely to vote for them?

WE at the very least need to get rid of the power mad Brown.Mandelson axis

and fuck the parliamentary labour party off completely

and select our own representatives from our own communities

labours core values dont work which is why they changed them, they never would get in government again if they changed back

 

[Skashion]

Labour cannot go back to its core values under this electoral system and form a government. The two are mutually-exclusive. If Labour goes back to its core values then we will have indefinite tory government. I'm surprised eighteen years of tory misrule hasn't made that abundantly clear.

Compare 18 years of Tory 'misrule' as you put it to 13 years of Labour CANCER

Have I not made it clear enough already that I don't approve of the New Labour project? The only grounds on which I will defend New Labour are these; a) as necessary to secure power under FPTP; and b) still better than the tories. If you don't agree, fine.

 

[hilts]

Compare 18 years of Tory 'misrule' as you put it to 13 years of Labour CANCER

Have I not made it clear enough already that I don't approve of the New Labour project? The only grounds on which I will defend New Labour are these; a) as necessary to secure power under FPTP; and b) still better than the tories. If you don't agree, fine.

better than the tories? can you see into the future? nothing like apathy

 

[law74]

& nu-labour are continuing the theme, east coast mainline, Metronet and The Third Way in London being three that spring to mind. you seem to think that I am some right wing tory voter, and you counldnt be further from the truth, although if 5 years of tory misrule was what is required for the labour party to get back to its core values then it MIGHT be a price worth paying (although god knows what state the country would be in by then).

Labour cannot go back to its core values under this electoral system and form a government. The two are mutually-exclusive. If Labour goes back to its core values then we will have indefinite tory government. I'm surprised eighteen years of tory misrule hasn't made that abundantly clear.

I think that the electorate have seen enough of how well the free market economy works over the last two years or so to realise the core socialist policy works best for the entire community.

 

[kronkonite]

I don't agree with you hilts I blame the smears of the press

or is it that people are fundamentally selfish and misanthropic

co operation socialism and re distribution of wealth please

 

[Skashion]

Be interesting to ask
if labour were to return to it's core values are you more or less likely to vote for them?

WE at the very least need to get rid of the power mad Brown.Mandelson axis

and fuck the parliamentary labour party off completely

and select our own representatives from our own communities

labours core values dont work which is why they changed them, they never would get in government again if they changed back

The problem is that the marginals haven't liked Labour's core values for a few decades now (and that's not likely to change). However, the electorate as a whole has always been to the left of Thatcherism. Those voting for something other than Thatcherism have always substantially outnumbered those voting for it. FPTP simply meant that this wasn't reflected in seats. If we had a proportional system the chances are that the Conservatives wouldn't have seen power since the 1940s and we'd have had a Labour-Liberal (Democrat) power sharing agreement.

-- Sat Mar 27, 2010 9:41 pm --

Labour cannot go back to its core values under this electoral system and form a government. The two are mutually-exclusive. If Labour goes back to its core values then we will have indefinite tory government. I'm surprised eighteen years of tory misrule hasn't made that abundantly clear.

I think that the electorate have seen enough of how well the free market economy works over the last two years or so to realise the core socialist policy works best for the entire community.

How much I'd love that to be true, but, I don't think it is. The public certainly don't like unregulated casino capitalism but whether that implies that they'd go for socialism, I don't think so. Mind you, Labour's 'core values' have never been radically socialist. More social democracy. That's where I think the public mostly are; social democracy.

 

[hilts]

labours core values dont work which is why they changed them, they never would get in government again if they changed back

The problem is that the marginals haven't liked Labour's core values for a few decades now (and that's not likely to change). However, the electorate as a whole has always been to the left of Thatcherism. Those voting for something other than Thatcherism was always substantially more than those voting for it. FPTP simply meant that this wasn't reflected in seats. If we had a proportional system the chances are that the Conservatives wouldn't have seen power since the 1940s and we'd have had a Labour-Liberal (Democrat) power sharing agreement.

please dont scare me with that scenario

 

[Skashion]

The problem is that the marginals haven't liked Labour's core values for a few decades now (and that's not likely to change). However, the electorate as a whole has always been to the left of Thatcherism. Those voting for something other than Thatcherism was always substantially more than those voting for it. FPTP simply meant that this wasn't reflected in seats. If we had a proportional system the chances are that the Conservatives wouldn't have seen power since the 1940s and we'd have had a Labour-Liberal (Democrat) power sharing agreement.

please dont scare me with that scenario

Yeah, screw democracy if it doesn't give you the result you want...

 

[loffers]

I took the time to read about Gordon Brown and his character and I'm very happy indeed to vote for him. I think I would heave if I was tempted to vote for that Eton idiot

 

[hilts]

I don't agree with you hilts I blame the smears of the press

or is it that people are fundamentally selfish and misanthropic

co operation socialism and re distribution of wealth please

cloud cuckoo land im afraid, this only works if everyone is willing to at least try and contribute and a large % of people werent naturally selfish, theories are great but the real world is different

 

[Anonymous]

I took the time to read about Gordon Brown and his character and I'm very happy indeed to vote for him. I think I would heave if I was tempted to vote for that Eton idiot

So you'd happily vote for a liar?

The "Eton idiot" quote smacks of a chip on the shoulder. Are there not more MP's in the Labour cabinet that went to public schools than there are in thr Shadow cabinet?

 

[Skashion]

I don't agree with you hilts I blame the smears of the press

or is it that people are fundamentally selfish and misanthropic

co operation socialism and re distribution of wealth please

cloud cuckoo land im afraid, this only works if everyone is willing to at least try and contribute and a large % of people werent naturally selfish, theories are great but the real world is different

I want to live in Cloud Cuckoo Land as the reviews are excellent. Where might it be found and can I get a bus there from Piccadilly Gardens?

 

[hilts]

cloud cuckoo land im afraid, this only works if everyone is willing to at least try and contribute and a large % of people werent naturally selfish, theories are great but the real world is different

I want to live in Cloud Cuckoo Land as the reviews are excellent. Ehere might it be found and can I get a bus there from Piccadilly Gardens?

the bottom of a whisky bottle is the best way to find it i find