Bundesliga review part 2. the new one :)

[supercrystal7]

Bayern obviously didn't give a shit. Pep's "The league is over" speech had the wrong effect, the performance was a joke.

The problems with Bayern run a lot deeper and are more serious than just the team not caring that the league is over. I brought them up right from the start and now most people are in agreement. The matches against United and Arsenal (both with very weak line ups) was not convincing.

That's not to say that winning the league so early does not cause a problem with motivation. This is precisely why Bayern ruining the competition in the Bundesliga comes back to haunt them. Klopp, Reus and Hummels are the only things keeping Dortmund going. If those three go then the Bundesliga becomes easier than Ligue 1. Bayern just won't have enough challenging games to be ready for Europe. We saw it with PSG against Chelsea. Worse unlike PSG, Bayern don't have massive wages or a glamorous city to attract players. They will really struggle to attract the big names from other parts of the world, because the Bundesliga is so weak.

Bayern has the players they want. Did you know of anybody in the recent years they really wanted and did not get?

The City? Why does a player go to Manchester then? Or Milan - or Torino? Munich is a fabulous city. If the EPL is so great why does none of the German player - or Barcelona or Real players - really leave to the EPL? They leave the smaller clubs but not the bigger clubs. Maybe Bayern would not attract the players that want to have a big social life in London or want to earn the absolute super star wage - I am not so sure this players are really wanted - everybody else they can get.

Right now I am a little bit insecure about the Bayern fate - the last 20 months have shown me that even if they show some slumps - they always do when it does not really count. When it counts they always were there - or atleast had the necessary luck (or will) to still get through. They might need that. I could think false, but who knows that at the moment.

The biggest threats to ball possession teams are parked busses with great counter attacking players or teams that are good pressing teams with great counter attacking players. In this matches you have to be fully concentrated and not go into them with half speed or half will.

You have the players that you want at the moment, but things can change very quickly in football. Milan is one of the glamorous cities in Europe. It's no insult to Munich a city I consider very beautiful or Manchester a city I have lived in. All things being equal most footballer players want to live in the the glamour cities of Europe like Paris, Barcelona, London, Madrid and Milan. It's been part of the reason why Chelsea have beaten both United and City to players and why PSG have managed to sign such famous ones.

As for the Premier League's draw on German players are you really questioning this? Ozil, Schurrle, Metersacker, Holtby and Ballack have all come to the Premier League in recent times. Draxler was desperate to come to Arsenal in January. I am not some jingoistic Englishman, that wants to pretend Premiership clubs are the most attractive in the world. For the foreseeable future Madrid and Barca will remain the two most attractive clubs for players. Madrid even more so are the biggest club in the world and the most attractive to players. They have the package of wages, city, success, glamour that no club can match. I never said the Premiership was the strongest league either. That has to be La Liga at the moment. 3 top teams and they are dominating the Europa League too.

There is no point mentioning the last 20 months, because 8 of those months were under Heynckes and things were completely different. This year Bayern have played Dortmund 3 times, City 2 times, Arsenal 2 times and Chelsea once. Out of those games you have won only 3 in normal time. No where near the form of last season.

The biggest threats to ball possession teams are parked busses with great counter attacking players or teams that are good pressing teams with great counter attacking players. In this matches you have to be fully concentrated and not go into them with half speed or half will.

That describes Dortmund, Liverpool, Chelsea, Madrid, Atletico and even Arsenal (with Walcott). If your style of football makes you vulnerable to half the top teams in Europe then it's perhaps something you should consider changing. Exactly what style of football were you vulnerable against last season?

 

[Maldeika]

The problems with Bayern run a lot deeper and are more serious than just the team not caring that the league is over. I brought them up right from the start and now most people are in agreement. The matches against United and Arsenal (both with very weak line ups) was not convincing.

That's not to say that winning the league so early does not cause a problem with motivation. This is precisely why Bayern ruining the competition in the Bundesliga comes back to haunt them. Klopp, Reus and Hummels are the only things keeping Dortmund going. If those three go then the Bundesliga becomes easier than Ligue 1. Bayern just won't have enough challenging games to be ready for Europe. We saw it with PSG against Chelsea. Worse unlike PSG, Bayern don't have massive wages or a glamorous city to attract players. They will really struggle to attract the big names from other parts of the world, because the Bundesliga is so weak.

Bayern has the players they want. Did you know of anybody in the recent years they really wanted and did not get?

The City? Why does a player go to Manchester then? Or Milan - or Torino? Munich is a fabulous city. If the EPL is so great why does none of the German player - or Barcelona or Real players - really leave to the EPL? They leave the smaller clubs but not the bigger clubs. Maybe Bayern would not attract the players that want to have a big social life in London or want to earn the absolute super star wage - I am not so sure this players are really wanted - everybody else they can get.

Right now I am a little bit insecure about the Bayern fate - the last 20 months have shown me that even if they show some slumps - they always do when it does not really count. When it counts they always were there - or atleast had the necessary luck (or will) to still get through. They might need that. I could think false, but who knows that at the moment.

The biggest threats to ball possession teams are parked busses with great counter attacking players or teams that are good pressing teams with great counter attacking players. In this matches you have to be fully concentrated and not go into them with half speed or half will.

You have the players that you want at the moment, but things can change very quickly in football. Milan is one of the glamorous cities in Europe. It's no insult to Munich a city I consider very beautiful or Manchester a city I have lived in. All things being equal most footballer players want to live in the the glamour cities of Europe like Paris, Barcelona, London, Madrid and Milan. It's been part of the reason why Chelsea have beaten both United and City to players and why PSG have managed to sign such famous ones.

As for the Premier League's draw on German players are you really questioning this? Ozil, Schurrle, Metersacker, Holtby and Ballack have all come to the Premier League in recent times. Draxler was desperate to come to Arsenal in January. I am not some jingoistic Englishman, that wants to pretend Premiership clubs are the most attractive in the world. For the foreseeable future Madrid and Barca will remain the two most attractive clubs for players. Madrid even more so are the biggest club in the world and the most attractive to players. They have the package of wages, city, success, glamour that no club can match. I never said the Premiership was the strongest league either. That has to be La Liga at the moment. 3 top teams and they are dominating the Europa League too.

There is no point mentioning the last 20 months, because 8 of those months were under Heynckes and things were completely different. This year Bayern have played Dortmund 3 times, City 2 times, Arsenal 2 times and Chelsea once. Out of those games you have won only 3 in normal time. No where near the form of last season.

The biggest threats to ball possession teams are parked busses with great counter attacking players or teams that are good pressing teams with great counter attacking players. In this matches you have to be fully concentrated and not go into them with half speed or half will.

That describes Dortmund, Liverpool, Chelsea, Madrid, Atletico and even Arsenal (with Walcott). If your style of football makes you vulnerable to half the top teams in Europe then it's perhaps something you should consider changing. Exactly what style of football were you vulnerable against last season?

Actually it is the same teams your team is vulnerable against, too - isn't it? And this teams - look at Dortmund - have enough problems against other styles, too? There is no solution for everything. Tell me one style that always works against parked busses? Only creativity, much speed in your own match and unpredictablity help - and to play so flawless and secure that you do not do major mistakes.

The thing is that Bayern did really well all season - but they warned before that this only works going full speed. If you do not you see what happens. The match against your team in December was not different from that. Bayern's results this year do not say anything about the strength of the league but that they kept concentrated for a long time or atleast got themselves back into concentration mood when they needed, too - right now they just had matches in which they do not.

We played Dortmund in a meaningless supercup match with a lot injuries in central midfield, with van Buyten, Starke and Contento in defense (van Buyten in a defense against players like Reus... - you can imagine...) - with Kroos, a one-week-in-Munich-Thiago and Müller in central midfield against a full Dortmund side and short before the end Müller nearly equalized it but only hit the goalpost - and Reus last goal for the 4-2 was an offside.

We won the away match in a time when Dortmund was not far away in points with 3:0.

And we lost a match for the golden pineapple against them after reaching the CL semi finals and already having won the Bundesliga - before a Cup match.

We won the quarter final, we won the final of 16 (and after the first minutes of the first leg it was never in danger) and we won the group stage. Yes - we did not do it in great style - but it was won. Nobody knows anymore about a nice match 2 weeks after it - the only important thing is the result. Does anybody remember the slobby matches Spain had in the World Cup 2010 and in the Euros 2012 - the title is important.

What I did not like in the matches against Arsenal and Manchester United where the tactics. Guardiola played a relatively safe version - I would have played it different with more pull to the offense. In the first match he did the mistake to first pull out Mandzukic for Müller and then bring in Pizarro too late for Thiago - I would have done the change already in half time after knowing they are down to 10 men and directly bringing in Müller for Thiago. Against English teams you have to play with two strikerlike players - atleast if you know they will sit back and play more on the counter. You cannot prevent the odd mistake that leads to a counter and as long you play a high line without extra defensive sweeper it is always a risk. I actually understand his tactics in the second match as there was already a 2:0 lead. Then you can play on ball possession.

And I think he did the same mistake against Manchester United again. And if you look into the second match - not only after the 0:1 but before - there was a lot times when Müller and Mandzu got the United defense in a situation where they would have easily scored, if they would have gotten the right passes. Müller was free very often, he is a pain in the ass for zonal defense if he is played in addition to the striker - they just could not handle him anymore when they already had to take care of Mandzu - and Müller often had Vidic and Smalling on him and Mandzukic only Evra even before that 1:1, with the right cross at that time that was an invitation. But I think Guardiola did the mistake in the first match when he fielded Müller and Mandzukic alone. It is even smarter (when you want to play with a 4-3-3) to sacrifice one of Robben or Ribery - in this system we secured the Bundesliga last year and came into the CL quarter finals - the Juventus matches where the first matches in which Heynckes had to go back to the 4-2-3-1.

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Look into the Bundesliga - look what players will come out of the youth centres in the next years or what young players are already playing. Look how young and already very experienced (but who still have their best years coming) some of the Bayern players are. There is no need to get that odd too expansive star player from another country. And there will always be some that will love to come to Germany and Munich, too. More today than 10 years ago...

 

[supercrystal7]

I don't support Manchester City, but you are right it is the same teams that Manchester City are vulnerable too and I don't consider that a good thing. I actually support a small team, who are very pragmatic and are defensive. Idealism over pragmatism, which is usually foreign to Bayern.


Bayern last season had a solution for everything. There was no way to stop them and that's why I said they were the best club side I had ever seen. If you want to press and counter like Dortmund, they would beat you. If you want to play possession football like Barca, they would beat you. If you want to park the bus like Juventus, they would beat you. That Bayern team can only be described as frightening. There was no tactic you could employ. All you could do is play at the very best of your ability and hope they had an off day.

Beating teams that park the bus is not difficult. Bayern under Heynckes did not have this problem. Against Chelsea in 2012 you actually broke through their defence on many occasions. You just had a bad finishing day. Chelsea were able to restrict Barcelona to less chances over 180 minutes than they were you after just the 90.

The Bundesliga is weaker than last year, there can be no doubt about this. At the highest level Dortmund's injury crisis and losing Gotze has made them a lot weaker. Leverkusen lot Schurrle and Carvajal, Hypia's tactics were not quite the same. Then other traditionally big teams like Stuttgart and Hamburg have completely fallen. Right now the future of the Bundesliga is in the balance. If Dortmund and Wolfsburg invest properly, Schalke get a top manager then next season the Bundesliga could easily become stronger than the Premiership, but if those things don't happen and Mainz/Gladbach lose their great managers then things will look very bleak

I have seen virtually every Bayern game this season. Even in the match you won against Dortmund it was more due to Dortmund's weakness than anything else. Pep had the foolish idea of playing Martinez as target man. It backfired and Dortmund swamped you and had several chances. Had the situation not got to Lewandowski you could easily have been 3-0 down before half time. We can discuss injuries, but Dortmund have had most of their better players out injured for those games. Dortmund have a smaller squad and played you with their entire back four missing.

Now we get to the heart of the matter, which is Pep's tactics. I do not doubt the quality of players Bayern have. I already said they are the strongest club side I have ever seen. They have the most balanced and strongest squad in the world. If they played like they did last season then they would easily win the CL. This group of players are just phenomenal.

When a team is as strong as Bayern, they can literally play Neuer as centre back and still win most games. This does not mean the tactics are right and won't be exposed against stronger teams.

1. The high line with just 2 players back leaves you woefully exposed. Many Bundesliga teams have taken advantage of this, but Neuer's brilliance and the 'fear factor in facing Bayern' has led to them missing these chances. When you play a top team they will get exposed.
2. The passing is too slow and not direct enough to create chances.
3. Why don't Bayern shoot from outside the area anymore? I don't think there is a top team in the world more dangerous from long shots. Alaba, Ribery, Kroos, Schweinsteiger, Robben and Shaqiri are some of the best in the world, but Pep has told them to not shoot and give away possession.
4. The desire to keep possession means that you flood the midfield. Everyone plays in midfield and you are outnumbered defenfively, out wide and in the box as you said.

Pep seems determined not to change and his tactics are likely to cost you big time. Madrid will destroy you if you play the same way. I think you and some Germans don't realise just how exceptional Lahm is at right back to keep Ronaldo quiet. Germany and Bayern have coped against Ronaldo, because Lahm is in my opinion the best right back of the last 30 years and probably in the top 5 best left backs during that period as well.

I will give you some results of Arsenal and Manchester United so you realise just how weak they are this season. Also note that Arsenal and United both played MUCH weaker teams against you than they had played against other teams in England.

Everton 3-0 Arsenal
Chelsea 6-0 Arsenal
Liverpool 5-1 Arsenal
Manchester City 6-3 Arsenal

Manchester United 0-3 Manchester City
Manchester United 0-3 Liverpool
Chelsea 3-1 Manchester United
Manchester City 4-1 Manchester United
Manchester United 0-1 Everton

Arsenal are currently 5th and Manchester United are currently 7th.

Even if Pep changed his tactics, it takes time for players to reach their full potential. Lahm has played at right back less than 7 times this season, Martinez in defensive midfield around the same. These players even if they are played in the right position with the right tactics will take some time to adapt.

I know Pep was brought in before Bayern won the CL, but this is what I think has happened. Bayern had developed a new virtually perfect team. They had just CRUSHED the tika-taka of Barcelona 7-0 on aggregate. They had CRUSHED everyone. Then they decided to switch to the tika-taka they had just crushed and suddenly find themselves struggling in games they would have won easily.

 

[supercrystal7]

Dortmund beat Wolfsburg in the semi final of the cup. It looks like the dream final should happen. Reus was fantastic again. Easily German player of the year. Dortmund vs Bayern will be a fantastic game.

Gundogan has signed his extension too it seems. Great news for Dortmund. If they can sign a second striker and a no10 then they will be back to being one of the top 5 clubs in Europe next season.

 

[Maldeika]

Dortmund beat Wolfsburg in the semi final of the cup. It looks like the dream final should happen. Reus was fantastic again. Easily German player of the year. Dortmund vs Bayern will be a fantastic game.

Gundogan has signed his extension too it seems. Great news for Dortmund. If they can sign a second striker and a no10 then they will be back to being one of the top 5 clubs in Europe next season.

Actually I thought Dortmund was very lucky... The football god for sure does not come out of Wolfsburg...

 

[supercrystal7]

It was a strange game. Dortmund were always in control and Reus was brilliant, but at the same time Wolfsburg cut them open at will. Wolfsburg had so many chances and missed them all. Jojic and Kehl did not work, Durm struggled with De Bruyne too. That being said it was the third intensive game Dortmund had played in less than a week.

By the way, who do you think is the Bundesliga player of the season. For me it is Reus.

 

[Maldeika]

It was a strange game. Dortmund were always in control and Reus was brilliant, but at the same time Wolfsburg cut them open at will. Wolfsburg had so many chances and missed them all. Jojic and Kehl did not work, Durm struggled with De Bruyne too. That being said it was the third intensive game Dortmund had played in less than a week.

By the way, who do you think is the Bundesliga player of the season. For me it is Reus.

No. He is not. You just think about the matches in which the Dortmund plan works. Yes, than Reus for sure is one of the driving forces. With his speed etc. he just matches so good to that system. But - you have to see all the matches in which the Dortmund plan just does not. And their Reus is useless - apart from his set-pieces.

Yes, he has a run lately - the recent 3 or 4 weeks. But not for the rest of the time. Like he was great in the second match against Real - but was not in the first. Actually until 3 or 4 weeks ago you could even call that a very mediocre season for him.

I have a long answer to your post before about the Bayern systems of the recent years in my head - just do not have the time to write them up. But all systems that Bayern has played had their highs and their flaws - they often just work when everybody is concentrated and working for it. Each of the system works against some opponents easily and does not work easy against the others. Probably the most stabile and most effective - even if it did not have the heights of the system you saw against Barcelona - was the system they used prior to Kroos injury. It was the system with the most defensive stability and even if the scoring sometimes took time and needed the mistakes or the tiredness of the opponent it always worked.

I do not like all the tactical tinkerings Guardiola does (even when I understand them very often, they are smart but I am more adventurous) - but until the Bundesliga was in the bag he always found the right solution even if he sometimes needed to switch the tactics in the match. Without that and the willingness of the players that would not have worked. Yes, he did not sweep over Arsenal like the team maybe could have done with other tactics - sometimes Guardiola is too cautious and rational and to obsessed with his ball possession system. But - he is not reluctant to even switch to three strikers if needed. Or he did the right thing in the second match to field Mandzukic and Müller together against United. If you look into the goals (or even into the first half in which you see that the solution often was there just the right last pass in the right moment was not played) they were all influenced by that striker partnership. He expected the first match to be similar to the City match - he did not expect them to sit back. That is why he fielded Müller as striker - when there is spaces he will find his way. (With patience he finds his way even if there is none - but Guardiola seems not to be able to trust on that in the same way Heynckes did who was always rewarded...).

The slumps Bayern had last year in the same extend like it is this year. Like last year they keep it to the less important matches.

Heynckes actually did not do different. He even rested the players more than Guardiola did and played with 8 B-team players in the weeks prior or after the CL matches. Gomez, Gustavo, Tymoschchuk, Contento, Rafinha, van Buyten, Pizarro, Shaqiri and partly even Robben were fielded then and Ribery, Müller or others shared half-times. They were a lot more eager to win that dead rubbers or unimportant matches then the first squad was and that is why we kept on winning this matches. Right now a couple of them are gone, the U23-players are too unexperienced to really run the show and Shaqiri and Contento are injured. And the Dortmund match - I remember a match against Dortmund at about the same time last year. But at this time both teams had reached the CL final and with that it was a great season for both. Now Dortmund only has the cup to play for - and they had lost the last 3 matches against Bayern that really meant something - whereas Bayern was just in the same position as last year - with nothing to go for in that match. Yes, for sure they would have liked to win - if it would have been easy. But after the early 0:1 it would have costed too much effort... Effort you would put in if you would have lost the recent matches or if it would be important - but not in a match for the golden pineapple.

 

[supercrystal7]

I will comment on Reus in this post and when I get home rely about Bayern's tactics and performance this year.

Reus was actually very good against Madrid away. In the first half his job was to track Ronaldo and double up on him He did such a good job, that Ronaldo switched to the left wing to avoid him. In the second half he moved centrally and took control of the Dortmund attack. He made a lot of penetrative runs and played Mkhitaryan and Aubameyang in several times. It's those two that messed up all the chances that Reus gave them. Reus was the second best player on the pitch after Ronaldo and slightly ahead of Hummels.

As for this season Reus has the best stats in the Bundesliga. With 14 goals and 10 assist, he has played a part in more goals than any other player in the league. However, I am not someone to just go by stats. Dortmund were really struggling to create anything with Hummels, Gundogan and Gotze not part of the team. Lewandowski was sulking initially whilst Mkhitaryan had a poor season. The entire burden fell onto Reus and nearly always he delivered. If Reus did not play well then Dortmund lost. He has carried the team this season.

Lastly Reus is not useless when teams sit deep. He is better when given space, but then again most players are. As you mentioned Reus is brilliant at set pieces. His corners and free kicks are very useful in breaking teams down. He also makes clever runs, that more talented players than Mkhitaryan would pick out. Reus is very good at quick one touch passing, which creates space when teams park the bus and that creates opportunities too. There is not a team that Reus would not get into in the world.

 

[supercrystal7]

Maldeika I was going to write a long reply about Bayern's tactics, but watching a recording of the game today and something has changed. I don't know what has happened, but Bayern not only picked their best team (in my opinion), but they also went back to their old style of football. Not afraid to hit the ball long, direct passing, great movement, Lahm at right back etc. If they keep playing like that then they will win the CL. Just need more minutes like that to get the rhythm back.

 

[bayern blade]

Dortmund beat Wolfsburg in the semi final of the cup. It looks like the dream final should happen. Reus was fantastic again. Easily German player of the year. Dortmund vs Bayern will be a fantastic game.

Gundogan has signed his extension too it seems. Great news for Dortmund. If they can sign a second striker and a no10 then they will be back to being one of the top 5 clubs in Europe next season.

Actually I thought Dortmund was very lucky... The football god for sure does not come out of Wolfsburg...

Agreed, Dortmund had all the luck first half. It should have been 2-2 at the break.