Calling all Tories. Why do you Tory?

[pirate]

Lads, come on , any chance of just admitting I am right?

right about what, you have made many claims

any chance you could answer my question about why you think i look down on people who are deceived

 

[Ric]

Lads, come on , any chance of just admitting I am right?

No, because you are still missing the point. You’re either being wilfully ignorant, or it’s the booze.

 

[meltonblue]

You’re confusing the Tory party with conservatism as an ideology!!!

No, I’m just putting it into the relevance of this thread.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

I suppose the salient point at present is given the current govt majority more people of all incomes must have voted tory at the GE.

 

[Ric]

I suppose the salient point at present is given the current govt majority more people of all incomes must have voted tory at the GE.

That is indisputably true.

 

[Ban-jani]

No, because you are still missing the point. You’re either being wilfully ignorant, or it’s the booze.

On the contrary I think you must be pissed Ric.

I have provided you twice now with the study.

A 3rd time:

• The Conservatives are now more popular with people on low incomes than high incomes. Labour is as popular with the wealthy as with those on low incomes.

“Wilfully ignorant” yes, you are.

 

[Ban-jani]

right about what, you have made many claims

any chance you could answer my question about why you think i look down on people who are deceived

Because you think people who disagree with you are being deceived by others, whilst you think you aren’t, rather than it being just a contrast of opinion.

 

[pirate]

Because you think people who disagree with you are being deceived by others, whilst you think you aren’t, rather than it being just a contrast of opinion.

but why does that mean i look down on them?
i dont look down on people who have simply been deceived, why do you think i do?

 

[Ban-jani]

but why does that mean i look down on them?
i dont look down on people who have simply been deceived, why do you think i do?

Being deceived means they are voting that way because they don’t know better and are being manipulated, when in reality they disagree with your politics.

It is looking down on their choice.

 

[pirate]

Being deceived means they are voting that way because they don’t know better and are being manipulated, when in reality they disagree with your politics.

It is looking down on their choice.

its disagreeing with their choice, not looking down

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

its disagreeing with their choice

Just ignore him mate. You can’t win.

 

[Ric]

On the contrary I think you must be pissed Ric.

I have provided you twice now with the study.

A 3rd time:

“Wilfully ignorant” yes, you are.

Christ, this is like pulling teeth. In the 2019 GE the Tories had approx 48% of the working class vote, and approx 43% of the middle/upper class vote. However, the working class accounted for a smaller proportion of the electorate than the other demographic, so 48% of a smaller group is not a greater amount of voters than 43% of a larger group, in terms of actual numbers. Hence why I disputed your claim that “the majority of people who voted Tory in 2019 were working class”. Surely this isn’t that difficult to comprehend?

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

Christ, this is like pulling teeth. In the 2019 GE the Tories had approx 48% of the working class vote, and approx 43% of the middle/upper class vote. However, the working class accounted for a smaller proportion of the electorate than the other demographic, so 48% of a smaller group is not a greater amount of voters than 43% of a larger group, in terms of actual numbers. Hence why I disputed your claim that “the majority of people who voted Tory in 2019 were working class”. Surely this isn’t that difficult to comprehend?

He’s decided on his opinion. It doesn’t matter what you think. He is right.

This is why we are where we are. “Intelligent” people run with a trend of thought and can “justify” it.

Social media is a curse on us all and isn’t going away.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

If I were to ask you what in your view was wrong with Thatcher’s government, you’d still be writing your post in reply at Christmas. Yet for all the divisive things that administration did, they never ever failed to provide for the most needy. They shaved what they provided to the bone and beyond, but that fundamental obligation that the government will not let its people starve, was one they always kept. Just as every other Tory and Labour government since the war has done.

But what this current bunch of cunts has done is abandon that basic responsibility.
So Margaret Thatcher, Winston Churchill, Harold MacMillan, Alec Douglas Home, John Major, Clem Attlee, Harold Wilson, James Callaghan, Tony Blair and Gordon Brown all ensured that the nation never deserted its people.

David Cameron, Theresa May and Boris Johnson all have done.

And yet there are those on here who cannot bring themselves to condemn them for it.

That is utter nonsense that says you mustn't have been around at the
time, and you are simply telling us what your political views are, and
reinforcing that with dreamt up scenarios that are far from the truth.
I'm not going into a discussion about Thatcher, but if you were a family
at the early part of her tenure, the social security rates were far lower, pro
rata than today, the rates were the same as when Labour left.
You really struggled then, todays social security rates are far above those, it's very easy to go to you gov, type in a typical family, and the rates
are clearly displayed. I agree that the Universal Credit caused. and still
is in some cases. problems, but it's a far more efficient system than before.

 

[Rascal]

If I were to ask you what in your view was wrong with Thatcher’s government, you’d still be writing your post in reply at Christmas. Yet for all the divisive things that administration did, they never ever failed to provide for the most needy. They shaved what they provided to the bone and beyond, but that fundamental obligation that the government will not let its people starve, was one they always kept. Just as every other Tory and Labour government since the war has done.

But what this current bunch of cunts has done is abandon that basic responsibility.
So Margaret Thatcher, Winston Churchill, Harold MacMillan, Alec Douglas Home, John Major, Clem Attlee, Harold Wilson, James Callaghan, Tony Blair and Gordon Brown all ensured that the nation never deserted its people.

David Cameron, Theresa May and Boris Johnson all have done.

And yet there are those on here who cannot bring themselves to condemn them for it.

I 100% agree with that, as much as I despise Thatcher she never did anything approaching what this shower of cunts have done. What she did though mate was change the mindset from One Nation Conservatism (which i quite admire) to the neo-liberal Toryism we see today, Cameron, May and Johnson are all children of Thatcher who have taken her vision further. Blair had the majority and the support to reverse Thatcherism, but he failed as well in that regard and helped lay the foundations for what we are witnessing today.

Its not just on here though that there are people who will not condemn the callousness and irresponsibility of this Government, they are still polling above Labour. Its why i started this thread, I really want to understand why and how people can support Johnson, he has been comfortably the worst PM i have ever known and that includes Thatcher.

I watched a thing last night with Peter Oborne, the right wing newspaper columnist and at least he is scathing about Johnson and the lies he tells, so maybe the worm is starting to turn. I fucking hope because this country is going to hell in a handcart under this shower of cunts.

 

[Rascal]

No, because you are still missing the point. You’re either being wilfully ignorant, or it’s the booze.

Follow the advice you gave me :))

 

[Rascal]

its disagreeing with their choice, not looking down

It is often used in Alt -Right circles that the left look down on the opinions of the working class. It is a recruiting tool used by the likes of Britain First, EDL and the DFLA. It encourages shallow Nationalism disguised as Patriotism.

It comes from the same sources as the Culture War stuff, things like you are not allowed to fly the England flag, winterval, etc etc. Its fucking nonsense of course but it is very effective.

 

[Rascal]

I agree that the Universal Credit caused. and still
is in some cases. problems, but it's a far more efficient system than before.

Have you been smoking weed?

 

[inbetween]

I 100% agree with that, as much as I despise Thatcher she never did anything approaching what this shower of cunts have done. What she did though mate was change the mindset from One Nation Conservatism (which i quite admire) to the neo-liberal Toryism we see today, Cameron, May and Johnson are all children of Thatcher who have taken her vision further. Blair had the majority and the support to reverse Thatcherism, but he failed as well in that regard and helped lay the foundations for what we are witnessing today.

Its not just on here though that there are people who will not condemn the callousness and irresponsibility of this Government, they are still polling above Labour. Its why i started this thread, I really want to understand why and how people can support Johnson, he has been comfortably the worst PM i have ever known and that includes Thatcher.

I watched a thing last night with Peter Oborne, the right wing newspaper columnist and at least he is scathing about Johnson and the lies he tells, so maybe the worm is starting to turn. I fucking hope because this country is going to hell in a handcart under this shower of cunts.

The critical thing is the traditional left-right, blue-red type arguments are gone and I think moving away from that is what Boris' lot have tried to achieve. Cameron tried to emulate Blair albeit without the spending and May was quite simply burnt down by Brexit which has destroyed traditional politics.

Traditional Tory, centre-right type politics have also been destroyed and populism has taken centre stage. Tory governments for example don't touch 'woke' issues like climate change but this one has (or says it has..). This is something Labour cannot compete with because whilst they have similar ideas on climate change they still generally have no answer to populist concerns around immigration etc.

This sort of leaves people with a choice of lesser evils and well for many the Tories are that lesser evil. Labour are otherwise finished whilst they continue to attack and mobilise against anyone who chooses to have an opinion or concern that they don't agree with.

 

[Rascal]

The critical thing is the traditional left-right, blue-red type arguments are gone and I think moving away from that is what Boris' lot have tried to achieve. Cameron tried to emulate Blair albeit without the spending and May was quite simply burnt down by Brexit which has destroyed traditional politics.

Traditional Tory, centre-right type politics have also been destroyed and populism has taken centre stage. Tory governments for example don't touch 'woke' issues like climate change but this one has (or says it has..). This is something Labour cannot compete with because whilst they have similar ideas on climate change they still generally have no answer to populist concerns around immigration etc.

This sort of leaves people with a choice of lesser evils and well for many the Tories are that lesser evil. Labour are otherwise finished whilst they continue to attack and mobilise against anyone who chooses to have an opinion or concern that they don't agree with.

That is an interesting take, how would go about addressing the concerns?