Cameron suggests cutting housing benefit

[stonerblue]

http://www.retail-week.com/home/food/waitrose-reports-record-trading-week-in-jubilee-run-up/5037345.article?blocktitle=Food&contentID=5279

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.birminghampost.net/birmingham-business/birmingham-business-news/manufacturing-and-skills-business/2012/05/29/queen-s-jubilee-boosts-sales-at-emma-bridgewater-65233-31064098/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.birminghampost.net/birmingha ... -31064098/</a>

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.harpers.co.uk/news/news-headlines/12317-supermarkets-buoyant-over-jubilee-sparkling-wine-sales.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.harpers.co.uk/news/news-head ... sales.html</a>

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.harpers.co.uk/news/news-headlines/12315-boost-for-english-wine-around-jubilee.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.harpers.co.uk/news/news-head ... bilee.html</a>

There you go Skash.

-- Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:17 am --

and some more

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.thisisdevon.co.uk/Jubilee-celebrations-provide-pound-25m-boost-West/story-16248935-detail/story.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.thisisdevon.co.uk/Jubilee-ce ... story.html</a>

<a class="postlink" href="http://uk.news.yahoo.com/jubilee-spending-boost-economy-down-092223695--finance.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://uk.news.yahoo.com/jubilee-spendi ... nance.html</a>

^^^^
£700m boost according to that one

So it's safe to say that the £32m spent on it was not a bad bit of investment was it?

Taken from your last link;
But a report by the Centre for Economics and Business Research suggests that each bank holiday costs the UK economy £2.3bn - more than offsetting any tourism surge.

Report author Daniel Solomon wrote that while the jubilee would weigh "less heavily" on the economy because of increased tourism, the event would still depress the nation's productivity.

The Department for Culture, Media and Sport's "best estimate" is a £1.2bn loss to the economy as a result of the extra day's holiday.

The Trades Union Congress (TUC) has said that national holidays can "lift the national mood" but insisted their value cannot be calculated.

I've no doubt that the supermarkets flogged more booze and anyone selling royal tat made a few quid. But not everybody did.
I share premises with 20 other traders and ever last one of them lost money.

 

[SWP's back]

Answered already

 

[malg]

has there been much "outcry" from the press? Or maybe they think no one gives a fuck about the incapacitated.

8000 disabled wheelchaired/hobbled etc to parliament sq in protest at cuts, not one paper or tv station reported it.

There has been snippets, one funnily enough in the mail of all places. But overall virtually nothing.

My favorite/most stupid ATOS story was a healthcare professional casually asked a female "customer" if she had watched last nights Eastenders. On her medical report it stated she could sit comfortably for a reasonable amount of time.

ATOS is a French IT company, the form you fill in is a tick box system that awards points for certain things. Questions include, can you pick up an empty cardboard box, can you pick up a pound coin and can you get up from a chair and sit in another chair???

From these questions they collate points and send recommendations to the DWP. the DWP assesor decides whether the person is then allocated to ESA support group or ESA work activity group. ESA work related is time limited to 12 months. If by then you have no job you lose all your benefits.

Now to relate this to the thread. Housing benefit im sure will go down this same severly means tested route, decisions will be arbitary and perhaps even based on the whims of the person on any given day.

When i said earlier in the thread that the welfare state is being dismantled, i really meant it, it is, i see it, i read about it everyday and i see the stress, the pain and the suffering it is causing. The Govt can do this because a majority of people believe the scrounging feckless myth purported by the right wing press. Yes there are these people of course but the overwhelming majority of people who desperatly need the support that a decent society should offer are being demonised and castigated as a result.

I'm going to end up sounding like an advert for Private Eye on here, but this is another story they have been covering for a while. This company really need looking at, because some of the stuff they're up to would make you fucking cringe.

 

[pauldominic]

has there been much "outcry" from the press? Or maybe they think no one gives a fuck about the incapacitated.

8000 disabled wheelchaired/hobbled etc to parliament sq in protest at cuts, not one paper or tv station reported it.

There has been snippets, one funnily enough in the mail of all places. But overall virtually nothing.

My favorite/most stupid ATOS story was a healthcare professional casually asked a female "customer" if she had watched last nights Eastenders. On her medical report it stated she could sit comfortably for a reasonable amount of time.

ATOS is a French IT company, the form you fill in is a tick box system that awards points for certain things. Questions include, can you pick up an empty cardboard box, can you pick up a pound coin and can you get up from a chair and sit in another chair???

From these questions they collate points and send recommendations to the DWP. the DWP assesor decides whether the person is then allocated to ESA support group or ESA work activity group. ESA work related is time limited to 12 months. If by then you have no job you lose all your benefits.

Now to relate this to the thread. Housing benefit im sure will go down this same severly means tested route, decisions will be arbitary and perhaps even based on the whims of the person on any given day.

When i said earlier in the thread that the welfare state is being dismantled, i really meant it, it is, i see it, i read about it everyday and i see the stress, the pain and the suffering it is causing. The Govt can do this because a majority of people believe the scrounging feckless myth purported by the right wing press. Yes there are these people of course but the overwhelming majority of people who desperatly need the support that a decent society should offer are being demonised and castigated as a result.

I agree with everything you've put here having witnessed it since I took voluntary redundancy.

I'm now on jobseekers allowance which will come to an end after 6 months because I don't have enough National Insurance contributions after 28 years of paying them.

I'm politically conservative by nature but the whole experience has left me wondering who to vote for at the next election.

I'm not at all happy with any of them for different reasons.

 

[law74]

I agree with everything you've put here having witnessed it since I took voluntary redundancy.

I'm now on jobseekers allowance which will come to an end after 6 months because I don't have enough National Insurance contributions after 28 years of paying them.

I'm politically conservative by nature but the whole experience has left me wondering who to vote for at the next election.

I'm not at all happy with any of them for different reasons.

Contributions based JSA only lasts for 6 months regardless of how much you have contributed, income based JSA is means tested, meaning that if you have over £6,000 you get a reduced rate less £1.00 for each £250 over £6,000 up to £16,000, over £16,000 you have no entitlement to means tested benefit, though as you chose to leave your employment they might decide that you are not entitled at all.
While claiming JSA (either income based or contribution based), you must be fit available and actively seeking work, failure to apply for suitable jobs can and should lead to sanctions being imposed on your benefit.

 

[pauldominic]

Thanks for that, that's rather interesting. I don't understand the logic that we have a health service that treats the condition in a holistic way and then a seperate group who access the symptoms - I guess it might be the GP/consultant/etc is considered too close to the patient and could be swayed? Anyway it sounds like a fairly pointless excercise where the claimant is potentially told conflicting "verdicts" which only add frustration to a system that is already considered uncaring....not to mention the money that could be saved.

And if those are the sorts of "tricks" being played to validate your condition then that's what we would call a cunts trick that.

Now I've just googled who the fuck this ATOS bunch are, private company I see, whilst nothing theoretically wrong in that it raises the fear that they are paid on results of claim denial.

I suppose that's a fair point mate ( for now we'll ignore that I personally think it calls into question a medical professionals integrity), but they (DWP and Decision Maker, neither of whom are qualified medically) at some point early in the process send the GP a seperate form for him/her to fill in for any other information about your symptoms/illness which is then collated and classed as 'supporting medical evidence'.

So, much of the information is to hand right at the start of the process, it seems it's just not actually either read properly or completely understood by the Decision Maker, sometimes the GP gets asked for more information to add or clarify, sometimes the claimant themselves (and many are in no fit state mentally to understand and comprehend what's being asked of them) are asked to do this, the questions themselves are even difficult for the GP to understand let alone the claimant.

The long and short of it from our experience and others seems to be 'YOU ARE HAVING A MEDICAL COME WHAT MAY' and that the medical evidence from the GP is only for guidance, information and attention for the ATOS 'professional'.

And I'll give you an example of how 'professional' it is, my old fella is a long term(50 + years) diabetic sufferer (type 1 and 2) amongst other things and can hardly see or hear and has had neuropathy in his feet for years, he's already had to have toes amputated and over the next couple of years he's likely to lose both feet as a result, he was turned down at his last review after his home visit medical by an 'ATOS professional' because a completely different ailment was examined and recorded and wasn't considered serious enough, when it was pointed out (and was pointed out at the time of the medical) that that wasn't his complaint, they had to come back and do another medical, he's still waiting for news as we speak, geez no wonder nobody has any confidence lol and I won't even start on my Mam's story ;-)

I had the same thoughts to be fair so no disagreement from me. Do you know what the qualifications of this "professional" was at all mate?

I've been on the receiving end of ATOS twice and they are everything people have made them out to be.

The answer is yes - they're paid to get people off the benefit.

Would be very interested in any evidence to back this up mate, no worries if just a hunch but I imagine there are plenty of stories if this the case...I'll be honest I've not really heard/seen about this before so apologies if this all yesterday's news- has there been much "outcry" from the press? Or maybe they think no one gives a fuck about the incapacitated.

You just have read the assessment when it comes back. Everything is twisted and spinned to justify the scores they give you.

I have some very unpleasant sides effects from the medication plus clinical depression itself which weren't mentioned at all.

She started a polite conversation at the start which was referenced as me being capable of conversing with strangers and my ability to walk and sit, answer questions, drive a car were all presented as reasons for work capability.

In my initial interview for JSA, the person was quite open with me that nearly everyone is being moved off ESA.

-- Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:03 pm --

I agree with everything you've put here having witnessed it since I took voluntary redundancy.

I'm now on jobseekers allowance which will come to an end after 6 months because I don't have enough National Insurance contributions after 28 years of paying them.

I'm politically conservative by nature but the whole experience has left me wondering who to vote for at the next election.

I'm not at all happy with any of them for different reasons.

Contributions based JSA only lasts for 6 months regardless of how much you have contributed, income based JSA is means tested, meaning that if you have over £6,000 you get a reduced rate less £1.00 for each £250 over £6,000 up to £16,000, over £16,000 you have no entitlement to means tested benefit, though as you chose to leave your employment they might decide that you are not entitled at all.
While claiming JSA (either income based or contribution based), you must be fit available and actively seeking work, failure to apply for suitable jobs can and should lead to sanctions being imposed on your benefit.

Indeed. I worked that out. So because I have a wife who works I'm not entitled to anything.

I took VR because if I hadn't I'd have ended up being sectioned under the Mental Health Act as some bluemooners have suggested :-p

EDIT: the Mental Health professional I've been seeing has mentioned that nearly all of her clients are in desperation about the stance the government are taking towards them making it harder to recover from their illness.

Not all of them are as fortunate as me.

 

[buzzer1]

Nobody up here saw any of the cash.

The same with the Olympics. All we got to see was a fucking torch.

THATS BECAUSE IT'S THE LLLAAANND'N OLYMPICS MATEY.

 

[mackenzie]

I suppose that's a fair point mate ( for now we'll ignore that I personally think it calls into question a medical professionals integrity), but they (DWP and Decision Maker, neither of whom are qualified medically) at some point early in the process send the GP a seperate form for him/her to fill in for any other information about your symptoms/illness which is then collated and classed as 'supporting medical evidence'.

So, much of the information is to hand right at the start of the process, it seems it's just not actually either read properly or completely understood by the Decision Maker, sometimes the GP gets asked for more information to add or clarify, sometimes the claimant themselves (and many are in no fit state mentally to understand and comprehend what's being asked of them) are asked to do this, the questions themselves are even difficult for the GP to understand let alone the claimant.

The long and short of it from our experience and others seems to be 'YOU ARE HAVING A MEDICAL COME WHAT MAY' and that the medical evidence from the GP is only for guidance, information and attention for the ATOS 'professional'.

And I'll give you an example of how 'professional' it is, my old fella is a long term(50 + years) diabetic sufferer (type 1 and 2) amongst other things and can hardly see or hear and has had neuropathy in his feet for years, he's already had to have toes amputated and over the next couple of years he's likely to lose both feet as a result, he was turned down at his last review after his home visit medical by an 'ATOS professional' because a completely different ailment was examined and recorded and wasn't considered serious enough, when it was pointed out (and was pointed out at the time of the medical) that that wasn't his complaint, they had to come back and do another medical, he's still waiting for news as we speak, geez no wonder nobody has any confidence lol and I won't even start on my Mam's story ;-)

I had the same thoughts to be fair so no disagreement from me. Do you know what the qualifications of this "professional" was at all mate?

I've been on the receiving end of ATOS twice and they are everything people have made them out to be.

The answer is yes - they're paid to get people off the benefit.

Would be very interested in any evidence to back this up mate, no worries if just a hunch but I imagine there are plenty of stories if this the case...I'll be honest I've not really heard/seen about this before so apologies if this all yesterday's news- has there been much "outcry" from the press? Or maybe they think no one gives a fuck about the incapacitated.

You just have read the assessment when it comes back. Everything is twisted and spinned to justify the scores they give you.

I have some very unpleasant sides effects from the medication plus clinical depression itself which weren't mentioned at all.

She started a polite conversation at the start which was referenced as me being capable of conversing with strangers and my ability to walk and sit, answer questions, drive a car were all presented as reasons for work capability.

In my initial interview for JSA, the person was quite open with me that nearly everyone is being moved off ESA.

-- Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:03 pm --

I agree with everything you've put here having witnessed it since I took voluntary redundancy.

I'm now on jobseekers allowance which will come to an end after 6 months because I don't have enough National Insurance contributions after 28 years of paying them.

I'm politically conservative by nature but the whole experience has left me wondering who to vote for at the next election.

I'm not at all happy with any of them for different reasons.

Contributions based JSA only lasts for 6 months regardless of how much you have contributed, income based JSA is means tested, meaning that if you have over £6,000 you get a reduced rate less £1.00 for each £250 over £6,000 up to £16,000, over £16,000 you have no entitlement to means tested benefit, though as you chose to leave your employment they might decide that you are not entitled at all.
While claiming JSA (either income based or contribution based), you must be fit available and actively seeking work, failure to apply for suitable jobs can and should lead to sanctions being imposed on your benefit.

Indeed. I worked that out. So because I have a wife who works I'm not entitled to anything.

I took VR because if I hadn't I'd have ended up being sectioned under the Mental Health Act as some bluemooners have suggested :-p

Whilst both yours and others posts have shown up the inadequacies of the system, surely you recognise that there can't be millions of people completely incapable of some type of work?

 

[Rascal]

Whilst both yours and others posts have shown up the inadequacies of the system, surely you recognise that there can't be millions of people completely incapable of some type of work?

Completely incapable is the moot point of course. I would say personally very few are completely incapable and that includes me.

However take into account the nature of peoples illnesses/disabilitis and the sheer impractibilty of work becomes apparent. I will give me as an example.

You have seen me over the years, have a beer, have a laugh, walk pretty ok, be clear of mind and appear quite able. But and the big but is that is only when you see me. You dont see me other days when say this sunday i had to go to bed at 2pm in the afternoon because i was that tired, in so much pain it was the only way i could get any comfort.

Now as an employer, would they really want a person who is so unreliable he does not even know himself how he will feel the next day, does that employer want me who has spent 50 days this year already in hospital and visits hospital weekly for treatment.

Now im a bright lad, i have a degree, im fairly worldywise etc and have worked when able, i would work if i could, but as far as i am aware the job that pays you to turn up when you can and do what hours you can simply does not exist.

Again this i feel is the nature of many problems. There is a complete and total misunderstanding of how illness/disabilty affects a persons life.

 

[blueinsa]

Whilst both yours and others posts have shown up the inadequacies of the system, surely you recognise that there can't be millions of people completely incapable of some type of work?

Completely incapable is the moot point of course. I would say personally very few are completely incapable and that includes me.

However take into account the nature of peoples illnesses/disabilitis and the sheer impractibilty of work becomes apparent. I will give me as an example.

You have seen me over the years, have a beer, have a laugh, walk pretty ok, be clear of mind and appear quite able. But and the big but is that is only when you see me. You dont see me other days when say this sunday i had to go to bed at 2pm in the afternoon because i was that tired, in so much pain it was the only way i could get any comfort.

Now as an employer, would they really want a person who is so unreliable he does not even know himself how he will feel the next day, does that employer want me who has spent 50 days this year already in hospital and visits hospital weekly for treatment.

Now im a bright lad, i have a degree, im fairly worldywise etc and have worked when able, i would work if i could, but as far as i am aware the job that pays you to turn up when you can and do what hours you can simply does not exist.

Again this i feel is the nature of many problems. There is a complete and total misunderstanding of how illness/disabilty affects a persons life.

There is a complete lack of common sense and compassion.

Wouldn't surprise me one bit if these employee's were on a bonus for everyone they managed to get off benefits.