Capitalism .......A force for good or A force for bad.

If anyone has any better alternatives, let me know.

Interestingly, I notice when people bring up examples of failed "communist/socialist" societies, the common defense is "it's not real communism/socialism!"

So wouldn't it be fair to say that what we're experiencing now isn't real capitalism, but a bastard hybrid of commercialism and consumerism and that true capitalism is what we need to return to?
 
Rascal said:
Capitalism if you listen to the owners of capital has brought about the highest level of living standards we have ever known. We enjoy decent lives mostly but it has left an underclass of people who cannot access the system or ever enjoy the fruits of the Capitalist dream.

Capitalism works by exploiting precious resources for personal gain, resources can be metals, coal, wood, animals and yes, you and me. people.

We live in a world that allows a small number of Capitalists to own more resources than the 98% of us will ever have, they live fantasy lives whistle we buy look for bargains in Lidl

Capitalists love war, they make money from death, yet still most pray at the altar of Mammon and there disciples pray homage


I am a fervent anti capitalist, a believer in equality and capitalism can never deliver that.

Come on then you pro capitalist cunts, tell me why i am wrong.
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Unfettered capitalism leads to numerous societal ills as you've observed. Even the father of capitalism - Adam Smith - said so.

However, capitalism creates an all-important incentive to innovate, and to create better less-costly goods. Capitalism is self-regulating, ensuring that goods are produced in proportion to demand. Simply put - a well-regulated capitalist economy best serves the public; all other forms of economic regulation have proven to be disastrous.

That said - at least in America - capitalism is not regulated nearly enough.
 
Yes capitalism works. The evidence is clearly there.

There might be poor people, but when you look at how those same people would have lived just 100 years ago you can see we're headed in the right direction.

I would also argue that Communism, despotism, dictatorships... Some of those people living in those political ideologies are still living as poor conditions as they were 100 years ago. But maybe I am just thinking in terms of the The West/Europe.
 
Rascal said:
Capitalism if you listen to the owners of capital has brought about the highest level of living standards we have ever known. We enjoy decent lives mostly but it has left an underclass of people who cannot access the system or ever enjoy the fruits of the Capitalist dream.

Capitalism works by exploiting precious resources for personal gain, resources can be metals, coal, wood, animals and yes, you and me. people.

We live in a world that allows a small number of Capitalists to own more resources than the 98% of us will ever have, they live fantasy lives whistle we buy look for bargains in Lidl

Capitalists love war, they make money from death, yet still most pray at the altar of Mammon and there disciples pray homage


I am a fervent anti capitalist, a believer in equality and capitalism can never deliver that.

Come on then you pro capitalist cunts, tell me why i am wrong.
Click to expand...
Capitalism has its flaws definitely but that can and should be pegged against regulation. The problem in the UK is the regulatory system is flawed because often the regulators are in bed with the regulated. This shouldn't happen but that is the major flaw of our political system. We currently have an unelected ex investment banker as PM, if that doesn't better represent the problem then I don't know what does. Our political system is completely broken and it is not fit for purpose whilst it does not or cannot act for the better of people.

The key to capitalism and certainly private ownership is shared ownership of profit and reward. If an employee contributes to a company then they should have a share in that company. Many companies do actually have these schemes but many do not. This all falls apart though when you remove reward entirely in the socialist model. At this point there is no incentive to innovate or to create because would you get out of bed for nothing? I can't think of a more depressing place than one where your work only contributes to the goals of the state.

The biggest problem for socialist and communist models is none of them are compatible with human nature. Almost every example of communism or socialism brings with it authoritarianism and the removal of democratic rights. I'd much rather work in a capitalist sweatshop and have a say in my situation as opposed to ending up suppressed or dead for speaking up for those rights.

The perfect model is one that is more akin to the Scandinavian countries where every measure of wellbeing and happiness is world leading. In those countries the economic model is not the differentiating factor, the differentiating factor is the level of regulation and the fact that governments are run to put people first.

Personally I've always been in favour of a more technocratic government, one which is run by normal people who are elected based upon their merits and competencies in a field. We don't need a change to the economic model, we just need to put caring and competent people in charge of the system.
 
I think capitalism and democratic elections are contradictory. In capitalist society, the power of capital is dominant. The bourgeoisie can shape public opinion through various means. Ordinary people have no power over it. The entire election process is more like a religious ceremony, a ceremony that gives the bourgeoisie "legitimate" power.

I don't think elections are an effective way to form organizations. The vast majority of human social organizations, including football teams, companies, and armies, do not have their leaders elected, but rather appointed by those who have a deep understanding of the issues, through small-scale discussions, and directly appointing trustworthy candidates.
 
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Alvin-blue-qhd said:
I think capitalism and democratic elections are contradictory. In capitalist society, the power of capital is dominant. The bourgeoisie can shape public opinion through various means. Ordinary people have no power over it. The entire election process is more like a religious ceremony, a ceremony that gives the bourgeoisie "legitimate" power.

I don't think elections are an effective way to form organizations. The vast majority of human social organizations, including football teams, companies, and armies, do not have their leaders elected, but rather appointed by those who have a deep understanding of the issues, through small-scale discussions, and directly appointing trustworthy candidates.
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I dont think there's a better alternative though. And elections are essential. Try living in a country with no elections, whereby leaders are just put in place no matter who they are or what the people want.
 
Rascal said:
Capitalism if you listen to the owners of capital has brought about the highest level of living standards we have ever known. We enjoy decent lives mostly but it has left an underclass of people who cannot access the system or ever enjoy the fruits of the Capitalist dream.

Capitalism works by exploiting precious resources for personal gain, resources can be metals, coal, wood, animals and yes, you and me. people.

We live in a world that allows a small number of Capitalists to own more resources than the 98% of us will ever have, they live fantasy lives whistle we buy look for bargains in Lidl

Capitalists love war, they make money from death, yet still most pray at the altar of Mammon and there disciples pray homage


I am a fervent anti capitalist, a believer in equality and capitalism can never deliver that.

Come on then you pro capitalist cunts, tell me why i am wrong.
Click to expand...

You’re wrong because whilst not perfect, particularly for those less well off, generally capitalism works because it encourages a progressive society and incentivises people to try to live well, work hard and have ambition. What it does need is stricter regulation to ensure that resources aren’t abused and can be more sustainable.

Countries that don’t use a capitalist model tend to be led by dictators, have a subjugated population and generally poor living conditions. Examples include North Korea, Russia, Iran and African nations ruled by self-styled leaders that have murdered their way to the top.

As a capitalist I find it offensive that you say I love war. I couldn’t think of anything worse, and it certainly doesn’t help improve standards of living if we have to increase defence spending and worry about the threat of conflict. Conflict instigated by nefarious non-capitalist nations like Russia and Iran.

These communist countries also exploit resources as well as their own people to the extent where thousands are sent to die invading a sovereign country to feed the ego of a dictator, instead of having the opportunity to say no and try to make a decent living in business, entertainment, healthcare or academia.

So no, I’ll stick with capitalism thanks. But you feel free to go to Russia, Yemen, North Korea, Somalia, Iran and see if your standard of living improves and see what opportunities your family have, especially any females.
 
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