Champions League 10th-11th March

sam-caddick said:
Porto and Monaco in the quarters, who would have thought that at the start of the competition.
Click to expand...

Monaco will get rinsed next round but Porto may have enough going forward to compete.
 
All the English teams out, three out of the four German teams out. Arsenal were the only English team to even win a game. Dortmund were the only German team to not win a game.

Spain dominate Europe and Allegri shows he is more tactically astute than Conte.

I thought Dortmund had a shot of winning the CL, but was a stupid idea and could not be wrong. It's probably time for Klopp to go. Terrible, terrible tactics and terrible, terrible team selection. Apart from the manager the players showed no belief and Reus was pathetic. Awful showing from him and he let the team down. Did nothing and did not even show went missing. Deserves rightfully to be criticised. The rest of the team did what they usually do and were abject. Bender the only player to emerge with some credit. Kampl at least tried as well. Weidenfeller is not good enough for a Championship team.

Interesting to see where they go from him. Dortmund have no money to spend, no European football and no team. Lack of technical ability in the team, average strikers, no full backs, no width, no decent striker and no playmaker. Squad needs to be completely rebuilt. Maybe even sell Reus and Hummels to raise money and start from the beginning. Buy young and German and focus on qualifying for the Europa League next season.

Mkhitaryan, Weidenfeller, Kagawa, Immobile, Ramos, Kirch and Jojic should all be sold.

Wenger may not be the best tactically and has a poor record in Europe, but once more he showed just how hard it is to keep rebuilding a team.
 
supercrystal7 said:
All the English teams out, three out of the four German teams out. Arsenal were the only English team to even win a game. Dortmund were the only German team to not win a game.

Spain dominate Europe and Allegri shows he is more tactically astute than Conte.

I thought Dortmund had a shot of winning the CL, but was a stupid idea and could not be wrong. It's probably time for Klopp to go. Terrible, terrible tactics and terrible, terrible team selection. Apart from the manager the players showed no belief and Reus was pathetic. Awful showing from him and he let the team down. Did nothing and did not even show went missing. Deserves rightfully to be criticised. The rest of the team did what they usually do and were abject. Bender the only player to emerge with some credit. Kampl at least tried as well. Weidenfeller is not good enough for a Championship team.

Interesting to see where they go from him. Dortmund have no money to spend, no European football and no team. Lack of technical ability in the team, average strikers, no full backs, no width, no decent striker and no playmaker. Squad needs to be completely rebuilt. Maybe even sell Reus and Hummels to raise money and start from the beginning. Buy young and German and focus on qualifying for the Europa League next season.

Mkhitaryan, Weidenfeller, Kagawa, Immobile, Ramos, Kirch and Jojic should all be sold.

Wenger may not be the best tactically and has a poor record in Europe, but once more he showed just how hard it is to keep rebuilding a team.
Click to expand...
you really change your opinions on teams and players often
 
bluechampion7891 said:
supercrystal7 said:
All the English teams out, three out of the four German teams out. Arsenal were the only English team to even win a game. Dortmund were the only German team to not win a game.

Spain dominate Europe and Allegri shows he is more tactically astute than Conte.

I thought Dortmund had a shot of winning the CL, but was a stupid idea and could not be wrong. It's probably time for Klopp to go. Terrible, terrible tactics and terrible, terrible team selection. Apart from the manager the players showed no belief and Reus was pathetic. Awful showing from him and he let the team down. Did nothing and did not even show went missing. Deserves rightfully to be criticised. The rest of the team did what they usually do and were abject. Bender the only player to emerge with some credit. Kampl at least tried as well. Weidenfeller is not good enough for a Championship team.

Interesting to see where they go from him. Dortmund have no money to spend, no European football and no team. Lack of technical ability in the team, average strikers, no full backs, no width, no decent striker and no playmaker. Squad needs to be completely rebuilt. Maybe even sell Reus and Hummels to raise money and start from the beginning. Buy young and German and focus on qualifying for the Europa League next season.

Mkhitaryan, Weidenfeller, Kagawa, Immobile, Ramos, Kirch and Jojic should all be sold.

Wenger may not be the best tactically and has a poor record in Europe, but once more he showed just how hard it is to keep rebuilding a team.
Click to expand...
you really change your opinions on teams and players often
Click to expand...
No I don't. You can look at my history.

However, I admit when I wrong and don't hold on to opinions which have been shown to be wrong.

Hummels, Bender, Gundogan and Reus are all world class players and good enough for any team in the world. Piszcek was like Zabelata; brilliant for a couple of seasons, but his form has really declined and has been made worse by injuries. Schmelzer has always been average. Kuba was similar to Milner and a useful player, but injuries have ruined him.

I have never been impressed with the likes of Immobile, Mhitaryan, Kagawa, Jojic and Ramos. In fact I repeatedly said how they were terrible signings.

I repeatedly said that they should have done everything to swap Higuain for Immobile in the January window.

Weidenfeller was past it, but shocking to see just how bad he is now.

Even with all that they have a shot against teams that attack them and leave themselves open to the counter. Juventus unfortunately unlike Arsenal had seen the way every team in the Bundesliga deals with Dortmund. Sit back, show up their lack of creativity and then destroy them on the counter.

That apart Klopp's tactics were idiotic today. Should have taken off Sokratis and replaced him with Kuba, taken off Mkhitaryan and replaced him with Ramos.
 
Klopp has had a lot more than one great season. He has had several and took Dormtund back to the top. However, ever since they peaked in 2013 they have made terrible signings and that's there problem. Klopp like Wenger always has an injury crisis as well. His biggest weakness are his tactics and loyalty to certain players. He never ever should have brought either Kagawa or Sahin back. The Bundesliga had moved on. The quality of the Bundesliga was increasing exponentially due to German's golden generation getting older. Now the likes of Schurrle, Reus, Hummels, Boateng, Howedes, Bender, Bellarabi, Badstuber etc are all much older and better. It's much harder to compete in the Bundesliga.

That said I don't think there is any chance of Klopp leaving in the summer.

Yes Immobile and Ramos were shocking and they could have done much better. Just buying a talented German youngster like Selkie or Werner would have been much better in the long run. However, the big mistake was not selling Lewandowski, which would have given them an extra 25 million to spend and freed up wages. Instead for some stupid reason they kept him and gave him a pay rise. There comes a time when you have to take a gamble and invest. After getting to the CL final in 2013 they were one of the best teams in Europe. Instead of Mkhitaryan they could have got Eriskon or De Bruyne.

Klopp failing to realise that CL finalist are not underdogs and team will park the bus against them, alongside his failure to realise that running is not enough without technique. That coupled with the injury crisis and the board hesitating to spend big when they should have has led to them falling back. It's miracle that Reus stayed, but if he had left in the summer for his old release clause then they would have been without CL football and with a worse squad than Schalke, Leverkusen and Wolfsburg. They have to win the CL or spend very wisely to get back to where they were.

That's what I said about them last week.






Top





Mister Appointment wrote:
Check Bundesliga wage bills. Transfer fees alone mean little without taking wages into account. Klopp is a genius.


What he did was genius, but at the same time his failure to adapt and Dortmund's collapse much like Mainz's is also his fault. Dortmund have had one of the top 3 wage budgets, but are bottom.

Even Simeone has realised that Atletico need to adapt their style. Against the Barca/Madrids he plays the same, but he has spoken of how the team needs to adapt and attempted to do so with a weaker team than Klopp had. Simeone also has the guts to get rid of failing players. Klopp's not ruthless enough.

Klopp on the other hand in 2013 made a concerted effort to get even faster, runners with little technical skill to be even more dangerous on the counter attack. He ignored the problem of who exactly was going to supply all these runners and failed to take into account teams would sit back against the CL finalist.

Even now the squad is not that bad, but it is very imbalanced and needs 3/4 signings to turn things around.

EDIT

To put it into perspective Dortmund were at least as good as City were 2 years ago.

Just imagine City did this to the first 11.

Let Aguero go on a free and replaced him with Charlie Austin.
Sold Silva and replaced him with Andros Townsend.
Milner had a long term injury so replaced him with Agbonlahor.

Kompany, Yaya, Zabaleta and Fernandinho cannot stay fit due to the training and miss over half the season. So to replace Yaya you bring in Ireland and Calum Chambers to replace Fernandinho

The City team now looks like this.

Hart
Michah Kompany Demichelis Clichy
Chambers Ireland
Agbonlahor Townsend Nasi
Charlie Austin


Yaya, Fernandinho and Zabaleta are still in the squad, but always injured. Bad luck with injuries, but it's terrible management to let this happen.

That's what I said a month ago. Keep going and it's the same thing. Today there was no belief and the players were not even running. They had lost faith in the manager and the tactics.

You can keep going back and you will find that I constantly said the same thing. Dortmund have too many runners not enough technical players and bought terribly.
 
supercrystal7 said:
Klopp has had a lot more than one great season. He has had several and took Dormtund back to the top. However, ever since they peaked in 2013 they have made terrible signings and that's there problem. Klopp like Wenger always has an injury crisis as well. His biggest weakness are his tactics and loyalty to certain players. He never ever should have brought either Kagawa or Sahin back. The Bundesliga had moved on. The quality of the Bundesliga was increasing exponentially due to German's golden generation getting older. Now the likes of Schurrle, Reus, Hummels, Boateng, Howedes, Bender, Bellarabi, Badstuber etc are all much older and better. It's much harder to compete in the Bundesliga.

That said I don't think there is any chance of Klopp leaving in the summer.

Yes Immobile and Ramos were shocking and they could have done much better. Just buying a talented German youngster like Selkie or Werner would have been much better in the long run. However, the big mistake was not selling Lewandowski, which would have given them an extra 25 million to spend and freed up wages. Instead for some stupid reason they kept him and gave him a pay rise. There comes a time when you have to take a gamble and invest. After getting to the CL final in 2013 they were one of the best teams in Europe. Instead of Mkhitaryan they could have got Eriskon or De Bruyne.

Klopp failing to realise that CL finalist are not underdogs and team will park the bus against them, alongside his failure to realise that running is not enough without technique. That coupled with the injury crisis and the board hesitating to spend big when they should have has led to them falling back. It's miracle that Reus stayed, but if he had left in the summer for his old release clause then they would have been without CL football and with a worse squad than Schalke, Leverkusen and Wolfsburg. They have to win the CL or spend very wisely to get back to where they were.

That's what I said about them last week.


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Mister Appointment

Posts: 2468
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:42 pm
Location: TAFKABS

Re: Bundesliga review part 2. the new one :)

Postby Mister Appointment » Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:27 pm

Kun Aguero wrote:

Mister Appointment wrote:

Kun Aguero wrote:
He's led Dortmund to bottom of the league, he's spent a fucking fortune on Ramos, Ji, Ginter and Mickytarzan or whatever he's called, he plays a striker as a full back in Durm, there defence is even more of a shambles than Bottlepool's, I suppose it's cool to want a hipster manager like Klopp or even Bielsa though.

The Emperor's new clothes is apt for Klopp,



He has a funny song though.



Back to back Bundesliga titles suggest he's anything but.



And at least one German FA cup and a couple of German Community shields but this season has shown that Klopp can't rebuild a great team, I'm far from a Pep fanboy but he has shown he can, you could argue since Mourinho came back to Chelsea he has with the quality signing's he's mad and eased out Lampard and Cole, it's not as if Klopp's been let down by not being giving a dime, Mickywhatereverhescalled cost 30 million and he's basically Clint Dempsey with a long name.



Check Bundesliga wage bills. Transfer fees alone mean little without taking wages into account. Klopp is a genius.

Top

supercrystal7

Posts: 3680
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:13 am

Re: Bundesliga review part 2. the new one :)

Postby supercrystal7 » Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:30 pm

Maldeika wrote:

Scaring Europe to Death wrote:For me the demise of Dortmund opens a wider narrative.

We keep hearing about the financial obligations of the Bundesliga model so why do so many of the German clubs resemble Newcastle in the way they are structured?

Hamburg are supposedly one of the biggest clubs, yet just like Dortmund they have done nothing, but sell their best players for almost ten years. Now they’re stuck with the ageing Van de Vaart and the return of former favourite, but five years older Olic.

Compare their team with the power and pace of the outfit that slaughtered City in the first leg in 2009 (i know we fought back in the second leg, but let’s not kid ourselves)

It’s the same at Werder Bremen who I saw outplay Barcelona, yet lose rather unluckily in 2005. One minute they’re dominating the Champions League and then suddenly they’re relying on cast-off veterans. Where did all the money go?

Don't get me wrong. I love German football and I'm watching a few games in March. It's just that somewhere along the line there seems to be a huge contradiction.



But there is different reason. In Hamburg it is pure mismanagement. They had money - they even still have a big budget. A lot different managers that bought different players that did not fit with the next manager. And that team somehow has a mentality problem.

Bremen - usually is an underdog that has long played a role that a club from a smaller city without a financial backer seldom does. Very good management and purchases (the manager of Wolfsburg was the manager of Bremen then) and success in Europe added to that. Failure to get to Europe, sale of key players, some bad cheaper transfers got them into trouble and on a downward spirale. But - right now they look better again. They have a good offense right now even if still young - could be that they are on the way up again. Time will tell.


It's not just Hamburg though. Schalke, Dortmund and Stuttgart are all terribly managed. In England we've had Leeds, but it's the norm for German football.

Schalke are regularly in the CL, have a decent budget and a top 5 youth system in the world. Gundogan, Meyer, Draxler, Neuer, Howedes, Matip, Ozil etc in the last 10 years alone.

Dortmund stupidly refused to sell Lewandowski.

Leverkusen signed a promising player and gave him a minimum release fee under 2 million. They lost out on 10 million by refusing to sell Vidal to Bayern. It's just incredibly stupid.

Even Chelsea are prepared to sell players to United.


What keeps the Bundesliga relevant is the great young players being produced, but they are going to start being poached earlier.

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supercrystal7

Posts: 3680
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:13 am

Re: Bundesliga review part 2. the new one :)

Postby supercrystal7 » Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:38 pm

Mister Appointment wrote:
Check Bundesliga wage bills. Transfer fees alone mean little without taking wages into account. Klopp is a genius.


What he did was genius, but at the same time his failure to adapt and Dortmund's collapse much like Mainz's is also his fault. Dortmund have had one of the top 3 wage budgets, but are bottom.

Even Simeone has realised that Atletico need to adapt their style. Against the Barca/Madrids he plays the same, but he has spoken of how the team needs to adapt and attempted to do so with a weaker team than Klopp had. Simeone also has the guts to get rid of failing players. Klopp's not ruthless enough.

Klopp on the other hand in 2013 made a concerted effort to get even faster, runners with little technical skill to be even more dangerous on the counter attack. He ignored the problem of who exactly was going to supply all these runners and failed to take into account teams would sit back against the CL finalist.

Even now the squad is not that bad, but it is very imbalanced and needs 3/4 signings to turn things around.

EDIT

To put it into perspective Dortmund were at least as good as City were 2 years ago.

Just imagine City did this to the first 11.

Let Aguero go on a free and replaced him with Charlie Austin.
Sold Silva and replaced him with Andros Townsend.
Milner had a long term injury so replaced him with Agbonlahor.

Kompany, Yaya, Zabaleta and Fernandinho cannot stay fit due to the training and miss over half the season. So to replace Yaya you bring in Ireland and Calum Chambers to replace Fernandinho

The City team now looks like this.

Hart
Michah Kompany Demichelis Clichy
Chambers Ireland
Agbonlahor Townsend Nasi
Charlie Austin


Yaya, Fernandinho and Zabaleta are still in the squad, but always injured. Bad luck with injuries, but it's terrible management to let this happen.

That's what I said a month ago. Keep going and it's the same thing. Today there was no belief and the players were not even running. They had lost faith in the manager and the tactics.

You can keep going back and you will find that I constantly said the same thing. Dortmund have too many runners not enough technical players and bought terribly.
Click to expand...
ok ok :)
only two points that I really remember, your love for Reus as one of the really top top players in the world and Dortmund going on to win the CL - but ofcourse you have stated that you were wrong so its fine
 
bluechampion7891 said:
ok ok :)
only two points that I really remember, your love for Reus as one of the really top top players in the world and Dortmund going on to win the CL - but ofcourse you have stated that you were wrong so its fine
Click to expand...
I do still consider Reus one of the really top top players in the world, but today he was pathetic and did not even put effort in. A completely unacceptable performance.

Yeh was very wrong about Dortmund winning the CL. In part in had a lot to do with the general weakness in Europe and Bayern playing stupid tactics. Bayern have stopped mucking about and look the heavy favourites. The Dortmund pressing style also works better against attacking teams. Part of the reason that even when they were even worse at the start of the season they could beat Arsenal 2-0. With their terrible league form they really had nothing else to focus on where as the other teams were fighting on other fronts. Was very wrong.

Tactics and poor signings were a given with Klopp, but the lack of effort and running is something new. He appears to have lost the dressing room.
 
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