Yes it was banned in the uk and shown one night on that show with Casey Kasem. Someone recorded it onto VHS and brought it into school. The history teacher who was really the PE teacher standing in - wheeled in the TV on the stand and we all saw the famous video. Several times.
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Champions League Final | Inter Milan - Italian Media
- Thread starter awest
- Start date
Yes it was banned in the uk and shown one night on that show with Casey Kasem. Someone recorded it onto VHS and brought it into school. The history teacher who was really the PE teacher standing in - wheeled in the TV on the stand and we all saw the famous video. Several times.
I don't know how to use multiquote, so if you all consent to my intentions, I'll try to answer to everyone quoting only a message. First of all, thanks to moderators who understood the situation repressing that gratuitous affront released following my first message, which I have written, in truth, a bit testily, after having read that Inter is at the level of very modest clubs of unpretentious clubs like Brentford or similar.
I will use more paragraphs whether for your eyes is more confortable. I am neither an englishman nor having any kind of roots outside Italy (at least, I am not referring to ancestral ascendance related to centuries ago, of which I am not aware). About this kind of topic, you could consult the administrator of the site, who must detain info about geographical localization of the IP addresses, even if I am not sure that, according to your binding juridical prescriptions, they may be considered sensitive data, legally speaking. In any case, I was born in Rome and I live in the same city in Rome, for what concerns your inquisitiveness.
About the term “nomenclature”: is merely a latin term derived from "nomen" and the verb "culare", whose meaning is more or less "to pronounce". The suffix by which the word passed to the derived languages in the Middle Age reminds a nomina agentis. Indeed, among the ancient Romans, the "nomenculator" was a slave or a freedman who had the particular task to remind to his "dominus sui iuris" (his owner) who were people towards whom paying homage and what epithets he had to use when talking to them reverently. English has a lot of terms taken from latin, able to pass on with slight differences as to graphemes (and phonetics), notwithstanding it is not a Romance language. So for us, the italians, is enormously simpler and intuitive using words that we have "in common" instead of that side of english derived from germanic lineage. Think about some words I've just written: simple (in italian "semplice"), intuitive (in italian "intuitivo"), name (in italian "nome"), to pronounce (in italian "pronunciare"), reverence (in italian "riverenza") and the list can continue on and on ... Being a second language, by the way, I am sure I will commit many mistakes in writing, despite using some terms which you are keen to reckon as being aulic (another example: in italian "aulico").
About the assertion of being a fan of some English team. In the 80's and 90's and in the first decade of the new century, in Italy we were quite boastful, reputing Premiership and Premier League tournaments of a very low level, absolutely unworthy to be followed, being a a pure waste of time, and I don't say it because I have mocking purposes or to show desrespect but because this way of thinking reflected, in an objective way, a common convinction that "was hovering in the air" at those times (an italian idiom). I will tell you an anedocte. When Zola left Parma and went to Chelsea, there was a widespread belief that his career was at its dead point, for he abandoned Serie A when he was still young. In truth, the cases of italian players abroad were really counted on the fingers of only one hand, in that era, because it was a thing that could really prejudicate seriously the consideration we had about a player. We all believed, football federation, newspapers, television programmes, fans it was a very crazy decision by his side, also because he would have lost definitely his place among the call-ups in the National team. In addition to this, it was an established custom that our then coaches were keen to put a cross through a name of a footballer who tried to play abroad, whatever the league would have been. Therefore, the facts took their natural course and events emerged according to previsions. When, in 1997, he made another appearance under Maldini sr, the father of Paolo was overwhelmed by so negative critics only for having put his name in the list. There was almost a popular uprising moved by indignation. Later, he scored a decisive goal against England during a WC 1998 qualifiers but, despite this, this kind of success by him was not welcomed so warmly, and when Maldini had to choose between him and Roberto Baggio for France '98, he preferred the last, even if, it must be said, there was strong ostracism against Baggio as well at those time. Baggio was "culprit" of playing with Bologna and not in a top club.
After italian debacle in 1966, our Federation, which was already controlled by Agnelli, took an odd decision, that one of banning foreign players from Serie A, imposing to clubs not to sign new deals with them, while to those who were already playing in Italy, was granted the possibility to remain in Italy so to fullfil their contractual obligations. At that time, Inter was one of the most greatest club in the world, and, reasonably, would have still won some domestic tournaments, as it happened, but for battling in view of the continental cups, well, our starting line-up was ageing and it needed some fresh new faces. Eusebio and Beckenbauer had already signed a preliminary agreement with us (or, maybe, something legally more binding), but their respective pre-contracts ended to rescission. Since then, only in 1980 was agreed again to permit foreign players to play again. The Irish Liam Brady was one of the first to land in the '80s, and after Juventus and Sampdoria, he joined us, in 1984. That year we had a new president, ready to show his will to spend a lot. Rumenigge came too and we had many other good italian players. As I wrote, we had very bad opinion about english style at playing football and for us, there was not so big differences with irishes. We considered irish football movement only slightly different: running and throwing ball as further as possible. For me it was quite a new experience admiring a player from those lands who was an artist with the ball. Since he came in Italy, I have always admired elegance of Brady's movements, his skills in touching the balls, the technique, grace and balance with which he knew to untwist himself from difficult situations in the field, so I was very happy to have him in my team. Pitily, he was at the end of his career, and stayed with us only a couple of years. Thanks to him, I later became a sort of a sympathizer of Eire national team, that in the middle of 80s was still emerging as a reality, like "Dynamite" Denmark team. I missed the opportunity of watching him here at Olympic Stadium, in the quarter-finals. He just retired a month before Italy '90 and wanted to took part to Irish expedition, but Charlton did not allowed him to do so. So when I had to choose the nickname in this forum, I thought to him.
From words formerly written, probably you may understand I have never got a particular english team to fondly root for. Perhaps, if I should give you an answer, I would indicate Ranieri's Leicester. And there is a straight reason for this choice. Being a relative of mine hailing from Sardinia, I have always had special attentions (I would not say, "I am a supporter of", because this has a stronger meaning) on Cagliari. Maybe you don't know, but Cagliari, in a certain way, in the eyes of the inhabitants there, has the unusual task to represent the entire island in terms of football. Yes, there was another team, called Torres from Sassari town, northwards, with which there has always been a strong rivalry, but Sassari Torres has never able to collect a presence in Serie A, and it's poorer and continuously refounded. After having its golden period between late '60 and the very beginning of '70s in Serie A, winning also a "Scudetto" with some of the greatest players Italy had in that period (Gigi Riva, Albertosi, Domenghini, Cera), Cagliari became again a club with no ambitions towards mid-70s. It started to struggle, until it was finally relegated to Serie B. Now and then, it was able to climb up reaching Serie A again but in 1985-1986 season important negative events occurred. In a season in which the club was just saved from bankruptcy in the winter, the team was still struggling in the Second League and the results on the pitch were very modest. Ulivieri, their manager, one of those first trainers in Italy who were trying to put in practice innovative tactical ideas brought from the Netherlands, was fired up early in the second half of the season, and, at the end of that championship, he was also convicted of, and later found guilty of, having sold football matches results in exchange for money (the new italian scandal in regards to illegal bets, called "Totonero-bis"). Therefore, Cagliari, as well as other few clubs not so much famous, besides Lazio, started the 1986-1987 campaign with five points of penalization. Lazio was charged with nine points, but they were able — thanks to Gigi Simoni, who, more or less, ten years later won UEFA Cup with Ronaldo in the final against "his" Lazio — to avoid relegation in the Third professional league, in a quite unhoped-for path (at those times only two points were assigned for every match won). Cagliari, instead, was relegated and spent two seasons in C1 tournament. At that point, the club was sold again to some local investors and a very young Ranieri was appointed as its coach. He just retired as a defender only two years before, and thanks to Cagliari he firstly made his name as a manager. He guided Cagliari through two consecutive promotions, yet gained passing through some difficult moments, he won the Italian Cup reserved to clubs who were partecipating in the lower leagues, and he made a miracle in spring of 1991 avoiding an almost sure new relegation. All of this happened just before Ranieri had the difficult task to uprise Napoli, just after Maradona was compelled to escape from Italy.
About "rag rejects", I think to have understood you are referring to two players in our line-up: maybe Lukaku is one of them, and the other could be Darmian or Mkhitaryan. When Ernesto Pellegrini's cycle was almost ending, after UEFA Cup in 1991, Sammer joined us for 1992-1993 campaign. It was a very hard time for him, since, in few years, he went from poverty and deprivation experienced in GDR (or DDR as you wish) to the wealthy world in Baden and in Italy. When he lived in Milan, he was not at his ease, also because all the german players we had (Matthaus, Klinsmann, Brehme) had already moved away. As he told many years later, he had a fruit box and a chair as the only furniture in his italian apartment apart the bed (maybe an indication of his struggle to settle in a different country, and the will of departing as soon as possible? I would not know). However, this difficulty of familiarizing also with the rest of the athletes had more than a repercussion to his performance with us, and furthermore, our then coach, made him play as a midfielder. After only few months we sold him, in autumn. Then, five later he won the Golden Ball, playing in his natural role, as a defender.
Could I call Sammer a rag? No, I couldn't, despite italian championship in those days was considered unanimously the richest and the most difficult league in the world. So how could it happend that a marginal league, at the eyes of many people, as Bundesliga was, produced a player deserving the Balloon d'Or? This can be repeat for many players in football history. What I want to say is that we must evaluate every single aspect, perentory judgements shouldn't be elaborated, for they are always spoilt by parameters not taken in a adeguate consideration. Andrea Pirlo, for example, was considered one of the biggest bluff when he used to play for Inter, even if Tardelli (not in Under-21) helped him to perform very badly, but then Ancelotti remembered that Mazzone used him in a certain way, and Pirlo became Pirlo, and Ancelotti passed as the man who "created" a new role for Pirlo. A similar speech we can apply with Lukaku: Roberto Martinez, alongside Conte and Inzaghi, knew how to use him. In comparison, some other coaches (Tuchel) didn't understand how to make the most of him.
About the thing related to Gagliardini, I am sure to have read it among the pages, but, excuse me, I cannot remember where precisely.
About "TinFoilHat" message: I don't have fear of City, and, above all, fear is not overwhelming me. It's not haughtiness or arrogance but a sort of peace of mind. I will explain this. In 2010, I was quite sure of winning against Bayern because they were not so strong, apart Robben and Ribery, while we have key-players in every role very famous (only Milito was the real surprise, also for Inter fans). But, to tell truth, I must admit that supporting Inter in the past decades was quite a challenging experience: you could never be sure of winning easily, because Inter was able to lose a match while winning it three-nil with only ten minutes before the final whistle. However, by the looks of what I've watched in the last years, it seemed to happen the contrary. This year, I have no worry for the opposite reason. For how our season took its shape, we are satisfied to be in the final, it wasn't expected, there were many internal problems, above all financial ones in our society, then there were injuries in crucial periods, allegedly some sorts of internal feuds among the players (and maybe also between Inzaghi and Marotta, the CEO). But, above all, I know what Inter qualities are and what we will play on Saturday, is a single match in a neutral country, open to every results. I tend to have faith in Inzaghi, even if his surname is not Guardiola. Losing against the fallen Milan of nowadays would have been a tremendous shock, instead, not losing the final against City.
This does not mean that Manchester City won't be able to win 3-0 over Inter: what I want to say is that every match has its own history, and only the field can "talk" as we say in Italy. If you play chess you can understand better what I want to explain, the team who will show itself weaker in the defensive phase played in the midfield will surely lose. But we either City or Inter have strong experienced midfielders, really reference points of their respective National teams. What I want to avoid is a match decided by referee decisions, things like penalty kicks or red cards given too lightly, no matter which team will be the beneficiary of them. It must be a feast for both of us, regardless to whom will be able to win at the end. Winning or losing without recrimination.
Chat GPT “ plewse write me a forum post with explanations of where words come from and detailing football in Italy since 1900’s”
oakiecokie
Well-Known Member
If only mate, if only.Just as an aside, are you going to Istanbul Oakie?
Nah I`m a bit knackered nowadays with old age.However we`re going around to a mates who`s doing a BBQ and I`ll be well oiled on the Guinness and Pale Ales. HIC.What about yourself ?
halfcenturyup
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 12 Oct 2009
- Messages
- 11,981
I don't know how to use multiquote, so if you all consent to my intentions, I'll try to answer to everyone quoting only a message. First of all, thanks to moderators who understood the situation repressing that gratuitous affront released following my first message, which I have written, in truth, a bit testily, after having read that Inter is at the level of very modest clubs of unpretentious clubs like Brentford or similar.
I will use more paragraphs whether for your eyes is more confortable. I am neither an englishman nor having any kind of roots outside Italy (at least, I am not referring to ancestral ascendance related to centuries ago, of which I am not aware). About this kind of topic, you could consult the administrator of the site, who must detain info about geographical localization of the IP addresses, even if I am not sure that, according to your binding juridical prescriptions, they may be considered sensitive data, legally speaking. In any case, I was born in Rome and I live in the same city in Rome, for what concerns your inquisitiveness.
About the term “nomenclature”: is merely a latin term derived from "nomen" and the verb "culare", whose meaning is more or less "to pronounce". The suffix by which the word passed to the derived languages in the Middle Age reminds a nomina agentis. Indeed, among the ancient Romans, the "nomenculator" was a slave or a freedman who had the particular task to remind to his "dominus sui iuris" (his owner) who were people towards whom paying homage and what epithets he had to use when talking to them reverently. English has a lot of terms taken from latin, able to pass on with slight differences as to graphemes (and phonetics), notwithstanding it is not a Romance language. So for us, the italians, is enormously simpler and intuitive using words that we have "in common" instead of that side of english derived from germanic lineage. Think about some words I've just written: simple (in italian "semplice"), intuitive (in italian "intuitivo"), name (in italian "nome"), to pronounce (in italian "pronunciare"), reverence (in italian "riverenza") and the list can continue on and on ... Being a second language, by the way, I am sure I will commit many mistakes in writing, despite using some terms which you are keen to reckon as being aulic (another example: in italian "aulico").
About the assertion of being a fan of some English team. In the 80's and 90's and in the first decade of the new century, in Italy we were quite boastful, reputing Premiership and Premier League tournaments of a very low level, absolutely unworthy to be followed, being a a pure waste of time, and I don't say it because I have mocking purposes or to show desrespect but because this way of thinking reflected, in an objective way, a common convinction that "was hovering in the air" at those times (an italian idiom). I will tell you an anedocte. When Zola left Parma and went to Chelsea, there was a widespread belief that his career was at its dead point, for he abandoned Serie A when he was still young. In truth, the cases of italian players abroad were really counted on the fingers of only one hand, in that era, because it was a thing that could really prejudicate seriously the consideration we had about a player. We all believed, football federation, newspapers, television programmes, fans it was a very crazy decision by his side, also because he would have lost definitely his place among the call-ups in the National team. In addition to this, it was an established custom that our then coaches were keen to put a cross through a name of a footballer who tried to play abroad, whatever the league would have been. Therefore, the facts took their natural course and events emerged according to previsions. When, in 1997, he made another appearance under Maldini sr, the father of Paolo was overwhelmed by so negative critics only for having put his name in the list. There was almost a popular uprising moved by indignation. Later, he scored a decisive goal against England during a WC 1998 qualifiers but, despite this, this kind of success by him was not welcomed so warmly, and when Maldini had to choose between him and Roberto Baggio for France '98, he preferred the last, even if, it must be said, there was strong ostracism against Baggio as well at those time. Baggio was "culprit" of playing with Bologna and not in a top club.
After italian debacle in 1966, our Federation, which was already controlled by Agnelli, took an odd decision, that one of banning foreign players from Serie A, imposing to clubs not to sign new deals with them, while to those who were already playing in Italy, was granted the possibility to remain in Italy so to fullfil their contractual obligations. At that time, Inter was one of the most greatest club in the world, and, reasonably, would have still won some domestic tournaments, as it happened, but for battling in view of the continental cups, well, our starting line-up was ageing and it needed some fresh new faces. Eusebio and Beckenbauer had already signed a preliminary agreement with us (or, maybe, something legally more binding), but their respective pre-contracts ended to rescission. Since then, only in 1980 was agreed again to permit foreign players to play again. The Irish Liam Brady was one of the first to land in the '80s, and after Juventus and Sampdoria, he joined us, in 1984. That year we had a new president, ready to show his will to spend a lot. Rumenigge came too and we had many other good italian players. As I wrote, we had very bad opinion about english style at playing football and for us, there was not so big differences with irishes. We considered irish football movement only slightly different: running and throwing ball as further as possible. For me it was quite a new experience admiring a player from those lands who was an artist with the ball. Since he came in Italy, I have always admired elegance of Brady's movements, his skills in touching the balls, the technique, grace and balance with which he knew to untwist himself from difficult situations in the field, so I was very happy to have him in my team. Pitily, he was at the end of his career, and stayed with us only a couple of years. Thanks to him, I later became a sort of a sympathizer of Eire national team, that in the middle of 80s was still emerging as a reality, like "Dynamite" Denmark team. I missed the opportunity of watching him here at Olympic Stadium, in the quarter-finals. He just retired a month before Italy '90 and wanted to took part to Irish expedition, but Charlton did not allowed him to do so. So when I had to choose the nickname in this forum, I thought to him.
From words formerly written, probably you may understand I have never got a particular english team to fondly root for. Perhaps, if I should give you an answer, I would indicate Ranieri's Leicester. And there is a straight reason for this choice. Being a relative of mine hailing from Sardinia, I have always had special attentions (I would not say, "I am a supporter of", because this has a stronger meaning) on Cagliari. Maybe you don't know, but Cagliari, in a certain way, in the eyes of the inhabitants there, has the unusual task to represent the entire island in terms of football. Yes, there was another team, called Torres from Sassari town, northwards, with which there has always been a strong rivalry, but Sassari Torres has never able to collect a presence in Serie A, and it's poorer and continuously refounded. After having its golden period between late '60 and the very beginning of '70s in Serie A, winning also a "Scudetto" with some of the greatest players Italy had in that period (Gigi Riva, Albertosi, Domenghini, Cera), Cagliari became again a club with no ambitions towards mid-70s. It started to struggle, until it was finally relegated to Serie B. Now and then, it was able to climb up reaching Serie A again but in 1985-1986 season important negative events occurred. In a season in which the club was just saved from bankruptcy in the winter, the team was still struggling in the Second League and the results on the pitch were very modest. Ulivieri, their manager, one of those first trainers in Italy who were trying to put in practice innovative tactical ideas brought from the Netherlands, was fired up early in the second half of the season, and, at the end of that championship, he was also convicted of, and later found guilty of, having sold football matches results in exchange for money (the new italian scandal in regards to illegal bets, called "Totonero-bis"). Therefore, Cagliari, as well as other few clubs not so much famous, besides Lazio, started the 1986-1987 campaign with five points of penalization. Lazio was charged with nine points, but they were able — thanks to Gigi Simoni, who, more or less, ten years later won UEFA Cup with Ronaldo in the final against "his" Lazio — to avoid relegation in the Third professional league, in a quite unhoped-for path (at those times only two points were assigned for every match won). Cagliari, instead, was relegated and spent two seasons in C1 tournament. At that point, the club was sold again to some local investors and a very young Ranieri was appointed as its coach. He just retired as a defender only two years before, and thanks to Cagliari he firstly made his name as a manager. He guided Cagliari through two consecutive promotions, yet gained passing through some difficult moments, he won the Italian Cup reserved to clubs who were partecipating in the lower leagues, and he made a miracle in spring of 1991 avoiding an almost sure new relegation. All of this happened just before Ranieri had the difficult task to uprise Napoli, just after Maradona was compelled to escape from Italy.
About "rag rejects", I think to have understood you are referring to two players in our line-up: maybe Lukaku is one of them, and the other could be Darmian or Mkhitaryan. When Ernesto Pellegrini's cycle was almost ending, after UEFA Cup in 1991, Sammer joined us for 1992-1993 campaign. It was a very hard time for him, since, in few years, he went from poverty and deprivation experienced in GDR (or DDR as you wish) to the wealthy world in Baden and in Italy. When he lived in Milan, he was not at his ease, also because all the german players we had (Matthaus, Klinsmann, Brehme) had already moved away. As he told many years later, he had a fruit box and a chair as the only furniture in his italian apartment apart the bed (maybe an indication of his struggle to settle in a different country, and the will of departing as soon as possible? I would not know). However, this difficulty of familiarizing also with the rest of the athletes had more than a repercussion to his performance with us, and furthermore, our then coach, made him play as a midfielder. After only few months we sold him, in autumn. Then, five later he won the Golden Ball, playing in his natural role, as a defender.
Could I call Sammer a rag? No, I couldn't, despite italian championship in those days was considered unanimously the richest and the most difficult league in the world. So how could it happend that a marginal league, at the eyes of many people, as Bundesliga was, produced a player deserving the Balloon d'Or? This can be repeat for many players in football history. What I want to say is that we must evaluate every single aspect, perentory judgements shouldn't be elaborated, for they are always spoilt by parameters not taken in a adeguate consideration. Andrea Pirlo, for example, was considered one of the biggest bluff when he used to play for Inter, even if Tardelli (not in Under-21) helped him to perform very badly, but then Ancelotti remembered that Mazzone used him in a certain way, and Pirlo became Pirlo, and Ancelotti passed as the man who "created" a new role for Pirlo. A similar speech we can apply with Lukaku: Roberto Martinez, alongside Conte and Inzaghi, knew how to use him. In comparison, some other coaches (Tuchel) didn't understand how to make the most of him.
About the thing related to Gagliardini, I am sure to have read it among the pages, but, excuse me, I cannot remember where precisely.
About "TinFoilHat" message: I don't have fear of City, and, above all, fear is not overwhelming me. It's not haughtiness or arrogance but a sort of peace of mind. I will explain this. In 2010, I was quite sure of winning against Bayern because they were not so strong, apart Robben and Ribery, while we have key-players in every role very famous (only Milito was the real surprise, also for Inter fans). But, to tell truth, I must admit that supporting Inter in the past decades was quite a challenging experience: you could never be sure of winning easily, because Inter was able to lose a match while winning it three-nil with only ten minutes before the final whistle. However, by the looks of what I've watched in the last years, it seemed to happen the contrary. This year, I have no worry for the opposite reason. For how our season took its shape, we are satisfied to be in the final, it wasn't expected, there were many internal problems, above all financial ones in our society, then there were injuries in crucial periods, allegedly some sorts of internal feuds among the players (and maybe also between Inzaghi and Marotta, the CEO). But, above all, I know what Inter qualities are and what we will play on Saturday, is a single match in a neutral country, open to every results. I tend to have faith in Inzaghi, even if his surname is not Guardiola. Losing against the fallen Milan of nowadays would have been a tremendous shock, instead, not losing the final against City.
This does not mean that Manchester City won't be able to win 3-0 over Inter: what I want to say is that every match has its own history, and only the field can "talk" as we say in Italy. If you play chess you can understand better what I want to explain, the team who will show itself weaker in the defensive phase played in the midfield will surely lose. But we either City or Inter have strong experienced midfielders, really reference points of their respective National teams. What I want to avoid is a match decided by referee decisions, things like penalty kicks or red cards given too lightly, no matter which team will be the beneficiary of them. It must be a feast for both of us, regardless to whom will be able to win at the end. Winning or losing without recrimination.
Great post. You should post more. When I say more, I mean more often, not longer posts :)
Yep, not quite your age but going with another 4 FOC’s, will be the last one probably. Wembley was bad enough, knees locked up on the 7 hours it took us to to get home on the minibus on Saturday due to a fiasco in the Pink Car ParkIf only mate, if only.
Nah I`m a bit knackered nowadays with old age.However we`re going around to a mates who`s doing a BBQ and I`ll be well oiled on the Guinness and Pale Ales. HIC.What about yourself ?
Sounds like you’ll have a great day anyway, let’s hope we do it this time, have a good un.
tolmie's hairdoo
Well-Known Member
I don't know how to use multiquote, so if you all consent to my intentions, I'll try to answer to everyone quoting only a message. First of all, thanks to moderators who understood the situation repressing that gratuitous affront released following my first message, which I have written, in truth, a bit testily, after having read that Inter is at the level of very modest clubs of unpretentious clubs like Brentford or similar.
I will use more paragraphs whether for your eyes is more confortable. I am neither an englishman nor having any kind of roots outside Italy (at least, I am not referring to ancestral ascendance related to centuries ago, of which I am not aware). About this kind of topic, you could consult the administrator of the site, who must detain info about geographical localization of the IP addresses, even if I am not sure that, according to your binding juridical prescriptions, they may be considered sensitive data, legally speaking. In any case, I was born in Rome and I live in the same city in Rome, for what concerns your inquisitiveness.
About the term “nomenclature”: is merely a latin term derived from "nomen" and the verb "culare", whose meaning is more or less "to pronounce". The suffix by which the word passed to the derived languages in the Middle Age reminds a nomina agentis. Indeed, among the ancient Romans, the "nomenculator" was a slave or a freedman who had the particular task to remind to his "dominus sui iuris" (his owner) who were people towards whom paying homage and what epithets he had to use when talking to them reverently. English has a lot of terms taken from latin, able to pass on with slight differences as to graphemes (and phonetics), notwithstanding it is not a Romance language. So for us, the italians, is enormously simpler and intuitive using words that we have "in common" instead of that side of english derived from germanic lineage. Think about some words I've just written: simple (in italian "semplice"), intuitive (in italian "intuitivo"), name (in italian "nome"), to pronounce (in italian "pronunciare"), reverence (in italian "riverenza") and the list can continue on and on ... Being a second language, by the way, I am sure I will commit many mistakes in writing, despite using some terms which you are keen to reckon as being aulic (another example: in italian "aulico").
About the assertion of being a fan of some English team. In the 80's and 90's and in the first decade of the new century, in Italy we were quite boastful, reputing Premiership and Premier League tournaments of a very low level, absolutely unworthy to be followed, being a a pure waste of time, and I don't say it because I have mocking purposes or to show desrespect but because this way of thinking reflected, in an objective way, a common convinction that "was hovering in the air" at those times (an italian idiom). I will tell you an anedocte. When Zola left Parma and went to Chelsea, there was a widespread belief that his career was at its dead point, for he abandoned Serie A when he was still young. In truth, the cases of italian players abroad were really counted on the fingers of only one hand, in that era, because it was a thing that could really prejudicate seriously the consideration we had about a player. We all believed, football federation, newspapers, television programmes, fans it was a very crazy decision by his side, also because he would have lost definitely his place among the call-ups in the National team. In addition to this, it was an established custom that our then coaches were keen to put a cross through a name of a footballer who tried to play abroad, whatever the league would have been. Therefore, the facts took their natural course and events emerged according to previsions. When, in 1997, he made another appearance under Maldini sr, the father of Paolo was overwhelmed by so negative critics only for having put his name in the list. There was almost a popular uprising moved by indignation. Later, he scored a decisive goal against England during a WC 1998 qualifiers but, despite this, this kind of success by him was not welcomed so warmly, and when Maldini had to choose between him and Roberto Baggio for France '98, he preferred the last, even if, it must be said, there was strong ostracism against Baggio as well at those time. Baggio was "culprit" of playing with Bologna and not in a top club.
After italian debacle in 1966, our Federation, which was already controlled by Agnelli, took an odd decision, that one of banning foreign players from Serie A, imposing to clubs not to sign new deals with them, while to those who were already playing in Italy, was granted the possibility to remain in Italy so to fullfil their contractual obligations. At that time, Inter was one of the most greatest club in the world, and, reasonably, would have still won some domestic tournaments, as it happened, but for battling in view of the continental cups, well, our starting line-up was ageing and it needed some fresh new faces. Eusebio and Beckenbauer had already signed a preliminary agreement with us (or, maybe, something legally more binding), but their respective pre-contracts ended to rescission. Since then, only in 1980 was agreed again to permit foreign players to play again. The Irish Liam Brady was one of the first to land in the '80s, and after Juventus and Sampdoria, he joined us, in 1984. That year we had a new president, ready to show his will to spend a lot. Rumenigge came too and we had many other good italian players. As I wrote, we had very bad opinion about english style at playing football and for us, there was not so big differences with irishes. We considered irish football movement only slightly different: running and throwing ball as further as possible. For me it was quite a new experience admiring a player from those lands who was an artist with the ball. Since he came in Italy, I have always admired elegance of Brady's movements, his skills in touching the balls, the technique, grace and balance with which he knew to untwist himself from difficult situations in the field, so I was very happy to have him in my team. Pitily, he was at the end of his career, and stayed with us only a couple of years. Thanks to him, I later became a sort of a sympathizer of Eire national team, that in the middle of 80s was still emerging as a reality, like "Dynamite" Denmark team. I missed the opportunity of watching him here at Olympic Stadium, in the quarter-finals. He just retired a month before Italy '90 and wanted to took part to Irish expedition, but Charlton did not allowed him to do so. So when I had to choose the nickname in this forum, I thought to him.
From words formerly written, probably you may understand I have never got a particular english team to fondly root for. Perhaps, if I should give you an answer, I would indicate Ranieri's Leicester. And there is a straight reason for this choice. Being a relative of mine hailing from Sardinia, I have always had special attentions (I would not say, "I am a supporter of", because this has a stronger meaning) on Cagliari. Maybe you don't know, but Cagliari, in a certain way, in the eyes of the inhabitants there, has the unusual task to represent the entire island in terms of football. Yes, there was another team, called Torres from Sassari town, northwards, with which there has always been a strong rivalry, but Sassari Torres has never able to collect a presence in Serie A, and it's poorer and continuously refounded. After having its golden period between late '60 and the very beginning of '70s in Serie A, winning also a "Scudetto" with some of the greatest players Italy had in that period (Gigi Riva, Albertosi, Domenghini, Cera), Cagliari became again a club with no ambitions towards mid-70s. It started to struggle, until it was finally relegated to Serie B. Now and then, it was able to climb up reaching Serie A again but in 1985-1986 season important negative events occurred. In a season in which the club was just saved from bankruptcy in the winter, the team was still struggling in the Second League and the results on the pitch were very modest. Ulivieri, their manager, one of those first trainers in Italy who were trying to put in practice innovative tactical ideas brought from the Netherlands, was fired up early in the second half of the season, and, at the end of that championship, he was also convicted of, and later found guilty of, having sold football matches results in exchange for money (the new italian scandal in regards to illegal bets, called "Totonero-bis"). Therefore, Cagliari, as well as other few clubs not so much famous, besides Lazio, started the 1986-1987 campaign with five points of penalization. Lazio was charged with nine points, but they were able — thanks to Gigi Simoni, who, more or less, ten years later won UEFA Cup with Ronaldo in the final against "his" Lazio — to avoid relegation in the Third professional league, in a quite unhoped-for path (at those times only two points were assigned for every match won). Cagliari, instead, was relegated and spent two seasons in C1 tournament. At that point, the club was sold again to some local investors and a very young Ranieri was appointed as its coach. He just retired as a defender only two years before, and thanks to Cagliari he firstly made his name as a manager. He guided Cagliari through two consecutive promotions, yet gained passing through some difficult moments, he won the Italian Cup reserved to clubs who were partecipating in the lower leagues, and he made a miracle in spring of 1991 avoiding an almost sure new relegation. All of this happened just before Ranieri had the difficult task to uprise Napoli, just after Maradona was compelled to escape from Italy.
About "rag rejects", I think to have understood you are referring to two players in our line-up: maybe Lukaku is one of them, and the other could be Darmian or Mkhitaryan. When Ernesto Pellegrini's cycle was almost ending, after UEFA Cup in 1991, Sammer joined us for 1992-1993 campaign. It was a very hard time for him, since, in few years, he went from poverty and deprivation experienced in GDR (or DDR as you wish) to the wealthy world in Baden and in Italy. When he lived in Milan, he was not at his ease, also because all the german players we had (Matthaus, Klinsmann, Brehme) had already moved away. As he told many years later, he had a fruit box and a chair as the only furniture in his italian apartment apart the bed (maybe an indication of his struggle to settle in a different country, and the will of departing as soon as possible? I would not know). However, this difficulty of familiarizing also with the rest of the athletes had more than a repercussion to his performance with us, and furthermore, our then coach, made him play as a midfielder. After only few months we sold him, in autumn. Then, five later he won the Golden Ball, playing in his natural role, as a defender.
Could I call Sammer a rag? No, I couldn't, despite italian championship in those days was considered unanimously the richest and the most difficult league in the world. So how could it happend that a marginal league, at the eyes of many people, as Bundesliga was, produced a player deserving the Balloon d'Or? This can be repeat for many players in football history. What I want to say is that we must evaluate every single aspect, perentory judgements shouldn't be elaborated, for they are always spoilt by parameters not taken in a adeguate consideration. Andrea Pirlo, for example, was considered one of the biggest bluff when he used to play for Inter, even if Tardelli (not in Under-21) helped him to perform very badly, but then Ancelotti remembered that Mazzone used him in a certain way, and Pirlo became Pirlo, and Ancelotti passed as the man who "created" a new role for Pirlo. A similar speech we can apply with Lukaku: Roberto Martinez, alongside Conte and Inzaghi, knew how to use him. In comparison, some other coaches (Tuchel) didn't understand how to make the most of him.
About the thing related to Gagliardini, I am sure to have read it among the pages, but, excuse me, I cannot remember where precisely.
About "TinFoilHat" message: I don't have fear of City, and, above all, fear is not overwhelming me. It's not haughtiness or arrogance but a sort of peace of mind. I will explain this. In 2010, I was quite sure of winning against Bayern because they were not so strong, apart Robben and Ribery, while we have key-players in every role very famous (only Milito was the real surprise, also for Inter fans). But, to tell truth, I must admit that supporting Inter in the past decades was quite a challenging experience: you could never be sure of winning easily, because Inter was able to lose a match while winning it three-nil with only ten minutes before the final whistle. However, by the looks of what I've watched in the last years, it seemed to happen the contrary. This year, I have no worry for the opposite reason. For how our season took its shape, we are satisfied to be in the final, it wasn't expected, there were many internal problems, above all financial ones in our society, then there were injuries in crucial periods, allegedly some sorts of internal feuds among the players (and maybe also between Inzaghi and Marotta, the CEO). But, above all, I know what Inter qualities are and what we will play on Saturday, is a single match in a neutral country, open to every results. I tend to have faith in Inzaghi, even if his surname is not Guardiola. Losing against the fallen Milan of nowadays would have been a tremendous shock, instead, not losing the final against City.
This does not mean that Manchester City won't be able to win 3-0 over Inter: what I want to say is that every match has its own history, and only the field can "talk" as we say in Italy. If you play chess you can understand better what I want to explain, the team who will show itself weaker in the defensive phase played in the midfield will surely lose. But we either City or Inter have strong experienced midfielders, really reference points of their respective National teams. What I want to avoid is a match decided by referee decisions, things like penalty kicks or red cards given too lightly, no matter which team will be the beneficiary of them. It must be a feast for both of us, regardless to whom will be able to win at the end. Winning or losing without recrimination.
When did Simon Jordan start posting on here?
Pal, I didn't want to answer to this or to be vulgar, but you crossed the line. And I am ready to endure the disciplinary conseguences of what I am going to say.Cool story bro !
Can you put a rubber dildo in your mouth and whistle at the same time ?
I don't use it, but I have an idea. Since you have that Brit-pop guy talking too much in your country, I suggest you to ask him for changing his bet. After all, he's a musician, I think he can manage to play new instruments, and whistle at the same time. Yet, I bet he's able to sing too, you know, I have also the perfect title of the song: "It's coming home" but it would be amazing whether he performs with that new instrument while watching a not too much old video in which Bonucci says: “Ne dovete mangiare ancora di pastasciutta!”.
Sorry if those englishmen who have shown good intentions in the previous pages assume themselves offended, this post is not for you.
To the many namelessheroesbehindkeyboard: is this a football forum, right? C'mon, possibly that only few people have the same passion, when writing about football, as, for example, @franksinatra has? Look at his post, from his words you can feel love for this sport!
Do you think that Manchester City will award each one of you with a billion of pounds after having shown your support to the squad writing such messages at the level haters do? No, City won't give you neither a penny. The same applies with Inter and its fans. They earn billions on billions while, on the opposite, their fans take football too much seriously. It's only a sport, live it.
About the topic: today, two out of the three most famous sports newspapers, spend on their respective cover a little sentence about the Champions League final.
For them, it's more important that Chiesa and Milik (Juventus) wish a transfer. And there is a little reminder about financial problems of Suning (Inter).
For them, it's more important that Chiesa and Milik (Juventus) wish a transfer. And there is a little reminder about financial problems of Suning (Inter).
HelloCity
Well-Known Member
I don't know how to use multiquote, so if you all consent to my intentions, I'll try to answer to everyone quoting only a message. First of all, thanks to moderators who understood the situation repressing that gratuitous affront released following my first message, which I have written, in truth, a bit testily, after having read that Inter is at the level of very modest clubs of unpretentious clubs like Brentford or similar.
I will use more paragraphs whether for your eyes is more confortable. I am neither an englishman nor having any kind of roots outside Italy (at least, I am not referring to ancestral ascendance related to centuries ago, of which I am not aware). About this kind of topic, you could consult the administrator of the site, who must detain info about geographical localization of the IP addresses, even if I am not sure that, according to your binding juridical prescriptions, they may be considered sensitive data, legally speaking. In any case, I was born in Rome and I live in the same city in Rome, for what concerns your inquisitiveness.
About the term “nomenclature”: is merely a latin term derived from "nomen" and the verb "culare", whose meaning is more or less "to pronounce". The suffix by which the word passed to the derived languages in the Middle Age reminds a nomina agentis. Indeed, among the ancient Romans, the "nomenculator" was a slave or a freedman who had the particular task to remind to his "dominus sui iuris" (his owner) who were people towards whom paying homage and what epithets he had to use when talking to them reverently. English has a lot of terms taken from latin, able to pass on with slight differences as to graphemes (and phonetics), notwithstanding it is not a Romance language. So for us, the italians, is enormously simpler and intuitive using words that we have "in common" instead of that side of english derived from germanic lineage. Think about some words I've just written: simple (in italian "semplice"), intuitive (in italian "intuitivo"), name (in italian "nome"), to pronounce (in italian "pronunciare"), reverence (in italian "riverenza") and the list can continue on and on ... Being a second language, by the way, I am sure I will commit many mistakes in writing, despite using some terms which you are keen to reckon as being aulic (another example: in italian "aulico").
About the assertion of being a fan of some English team. In the 80's and 90's and in the first decade of the new century, in Italy we were quite boastful, reputing Premiership and Premier League tournaments of a very low level, absolutely unworthy to be followed, being a a pure waste of time, and I don't say it because I have mocking purposes or to show desrespect but because this way of thinking reflected, in an objective way, a common convinction that "was hovering in the air" at those times (an italian idiom). I will tell you an anedocte. When Zola left Parma and went to Chelsea, there was a widespread belief that his career was at its dead point, for he abandoned Serie A when he was still young. In truth, the cases of italian players abroad were really counted on the fingers of only one hand, in that era, because it was a thing that could really prejudicate seriously the consideration we had about a player. We all believed, football federation, newspapers, television programmes, fans it was a very crazy decision by his side, also because he would have lost definitely his place among the call-ups in the National team. In addition to this, it was an established custom that our then coaches were keen to put a cross through a name of a footballer who tried to play abroad, whatever the league would have been. Therefore, the facts took their natural course and events emerged according to previsions. When, in 1997, he made another appearance under Maldini sr, the father of Paolo was overwhelmed by so negative critics only for having put his name in the list. There was almost a popular uprising moved by indignation. Later, he scored a decisive goal against England during a WC 1998 qualifiers but, despite this, this kind of success by him was not welcomed so warmly, and when Maldini had to choose between him and Roberto Baggio for France '98, he preferred the last, even if, it must be said, there was strong ostracism against Baggio as well at those time. Baggio was "culprit" of playing with Bologna and not in a top club.
After italian debacle in 1966, our Federation, which was already controlled by Agnelli, took an odd decision, that one of banning foreign players from Serie A, imposing to clubs not to sign new deals with them, while to those who were already playing in Italy, was granted the possibility to remain in Italy so to fullfil their contractual obligations. At that time, Inter was one of the most greatest club in the world, and, reasonably, would have still won some domestic tournaments, as it happened, but for battling in view of the continental cups, well, our starting line-up was ageing and it needed some fresh new faces. Eusebio and Beckenbauer had already signed a preliminary agreement with us (or, maybe, something legally more binding), but their respective pre-contracts ended to rescission. Since then, only in 1980 was agreed again to permit foreign players to play again. The Irish Liam Brady was one of the first to land in the '80s, and after Juventus and Sampdoria, he joined us, in 1984. That year we had a new president, ready to show his will to spend a lot. Rumenigge came too and we had many other good italian players. As I wrote, we had very bad opinion about english style at playing football and for us, there was not so big differences with irishes. We considered irish football movement only slightly different: running and throwing ball as further as possible. For me it was quite a new experience admiring a player from those lands who was an artist with the ball. Since he came in Italy, I have always admired elegance of Brady's movements, his skills in touching the balls, the technique, grace and balance with which he knew to untwist himself from difficult situations in the field, so I was very happy to have him in my team. Pitily, he was at the end of his career, and stayed with us only a couple of years. Thanks to him, I later became a sort of a sympathizer of Eire national team, that in the middle of 80s was still emerging as a reality, like "Dynamite" Denmark team. I missed the opportunity of watching him here at Olympic Stadium, in the quarter-finals. He just retired a month before Italy '90 and wanted to took part to Irish expedition, but Charlton did not allowed him to do so. So when I had to choose the nickname in this forum, I thought to him.
From words formerly written, probably you may understand I have never got a particular english team to fondly root for. Perhaps, if I should give you an answer, I would indicate Ranieri's Leicester. And there is a straight reason for this choice. Being a relative of mine hailing from Sardinia, I have always had special attentions (I would not say, "I am a supporter of", because this has a stronger meaning) on Cagliari. Maybe you don't know, but Cagliari, in a certain way, in the eyes of the inhabitants there, has the unusual task to represent the entire island in terms of football. Yes, there was another team, called Torres from Sassari town, northwards, with which there has always been a strong rivalry, but Sassari Torres has never able to collect a presence in Serie A, and it's poorer and continuously refounded. After having its golden period between late '60 and the very beginning of '70s in Serie A, winning also a "Scudetto" with some of the greatest players Italy had in that period (Gigi Riva, Albertosi, Domenghini, Cera), Cagliari became again a club with no ambitions towards mid-70s. It started to struggle, until it was finally relegated to Serie B. Now and then, it was able to climb up reaching Serie A again but in 1985-1986 season important negative events occurred. In a season in which the club was just saved from bankruptcy in the winter, the team was still struggling in the Second League and the results on the pitch were very modest. Ulivieri, their manager, one of those first trainers in Italy who were trying to put in practice innovative tactical ideas brought from the Netherlands, was fired up early in the second half of the season, and, at the end of that championship, he was also convicted of, and later found guilty of, having sold football matches results in exchange for money (the new italian scandal in regards to illegal bets, called "Totonero-bis"). Therefore, Cagliari, as well as other few clubs not so much famous, besides Lazio, started the 1986-1987 campaign with five points of penalization. Lazio was charged with nine points, but they were able — thanks to Gigi Simoni, who, more or less, ten years later won UEFA Cup with Ronaldo in the final against "his" Lazio — to avoid relegation in the Third professional league, in a quite unhoped-for path (at those times only two points were assigned for every match won). Cagliari, instead, was relegated and spent two seasons in C1 tournament. At that point, the club was sold again to some local investors and a very young Ranieri was appointed as its coach. He just retired as a defender only two years before, and thanks to Cagliari he firstly made his name as a manager. He guided Cagliari through two consecutive promotions, yet gained passing through some difficult moments, he won the Italian Cup reserved to clubs who were partecipating in the lower leagues, and he made a miracle in spring of 1991 avoiding an almost sure new relegation. All of this happened just before Ranieri had the difficult task to uprise Napoli, just after Maradona was compelled to escape from Italy.
About "rag rejects", I think to have understood you are referring to two players in our line-up: maybe Lukaku is one of them, and the other could be Darmian or Mkhitaryan. When Ernesto Pellegrini's cycle was almost ending, after UEFA Cup in 1991, Sammer joined us for 1992-1993 campaign. It was a very hard time for him, since, in few years, he went from poverty and deprivation experienced in GDR (or DDR as you wish) to the wealthy world in Baden and in Italy. When he lived in Milan, he was not at his ease, also because all the german players we had (Matthaus, Klinsmann, Brehme) had already moved away. As he told many years later, he had a fruit box and a chair as the only furniture in his italian apartment apart the bed (maybe an indication of his struggle to settle in a different country, and the will of departing as soon as possible? I would not know). However, this difficulty of familiarizing also with the rest of the athletes had more than a repercussion to his performance with us, and furthermore, our then coach, made him play as a midfielder. After only few months we sold him, in autumn. Then, five later he won the Golden Ball, playing in his natural role, as a defender.
Could I call Sammer a rag? No, I couldn't, despite italian championship in those days was considered unanimously the richest and the most difficult league in the world. So how could it happend that a marginal league, at the eyes of many people, as Bundesliga was, produced a player deserving the Balloon d'Or? This can be repeat for many players in football history. What I want to say is that we must evaluate every single aspect, perentory judgements shouldn't be elaborated, for they are always spoilt by parameters not taken in a adeguate consideration. Andrea Pirlo, for example, was considered one of the biggest bluff when he used to play for Inter, even if Tardelli (not in Under-21) helped him to perform very badly, but then Ancelotti remembered that Mazzone used him in a certain way, and Pirlo became Pirlo, and Ancelotti passed as the man who "created" a new role for Pirlo. A similar speech we can apply with Lukaku: Roberto Martinez, alongside Conte and Inzaghi, knew how to use him. In comparison, some other coaches (Tuchel) didn't understand how to make the most of him.
About the thing related to Gagliardini, I am sure to have read it among the pages, but, excuse me, I cannot remember where precisely.
About "TinFoilHat" message: I don't have fear of City, and, above all, fear is not overwhelming me. It's not haughtiness or arrogance but a sort of peace of mind. I will explain this. In 2010, I was quite sure of winning against Bayern because they were not so strong, apart Robben and Ribery, while we have key-players in every role very famous (only Milito was the real surprise, also for Inter fans). But, to tell truth, I must admit that supporting Inter in the past decades was quite a challenging experience: you could never be sure of winning easily, because Inter was able to lose a match while winning it three-nil with only ten minutes before the final whistle. However, by the looks of what I've watched in the last years, it seemed to happen the contrary. This year, I have no worry for the opposite reason. For how our season took its shape, we are satisfied to be in the final, it wasn't expected, there were many internal problems, above all financial ones in our society, then there were injuries in crucial periods, allegedly some sorts of internal feuds among the players (and maybe also between Inzaghi and Marotta, the CEO). But, above all, I know what Inter qualities are and what we will play on Saturday, is a single match in a neutral country, open to every results. I tend to have faith in Inzaghi, even if his surname is not Guardiola. Losing against the fallen Milan of nowadays would have been a tremendous shock, instead, not losing the final against City.
This does not mean that Manchester City won't be able to win 3-0 over Inter: what I want to say is that every match has its own history, and only the field can "talk" as we say in Italy. If you play chess you can understand better what I want to explain, the team who will show itself weaker in the defensive phase played in the midfield will surely lose. But we either City or Inter have strong experienced midfielders, really reference points of their respective National teams. What I want to avoid is a match decided by referee decisions, things like penalty kicks or red cards given too lightly, no matter which team will be the beneficiary of them. It must be a feast for both of us, regardless to whom will be able to win at the end. Winning or losing without recrimination.
Rag.