Champions League Games | Quarter-Finals | 9/10/16/17 April '24

[Lovebitesandeveryfing]

TNT Sports "Former Manchester United player [Sabitzer] with a winner for Dortmund!"

The desperation to make the rags relevant.

Well, it's no more than what they do with us, i.e. “The former Manchester City player Joey Barton makes stupid and misogynistic comment”.

 

[Lovebitesandeveryfing]

Do those watching on telly really want to watch Real Madrid thrash let's say some Slovenian side, the Danish champions and maybe the German 4th placed finish in the group games that you can mostly predict the final standings of all of them 2 minutes after the draws are made and before a balls been kicked followed by a last 16 tie against say a Dutch runner up before finally getting to the part of the competition where they can play a liverpool?

If real madrid play liverpool first round, you're still getting the big tie everybody wants. You just don't have to wait until the last 5 games to get to it.

It also allows more potential for these glamour ties to be spread out and have more eyes on them. If bayern vs arsenal was in the second round and not the exact same time as city vs madrid, you're not cannibalising the viewing figures for those so called glamour ties half as much.

My "stupid concept" is the same as the FA cup in that it's an open competition, didn't see much complaining when liverpool drew arsenal in the 3rd round and one of thr favourites went out instantly, FA cup in the whole is a better cup competition thrpughout from start to finish relative to who compete in it compared to the champions league who weight everything towards the last handful of games at thr expense of the entire run until the quarters.

See my post above as to why this will likely never happen, unfortunately.

Group stages simply make more money and represent more guaranteed revenue for participants clubs (and guaranteed “glamour” ties for broadcasters and sponsors).

Not even City would likely want to go to a full knockout tournament format. Very few clubs are going to vote for less revenue, especially given near all are running at losses right now.

I know that this debate is about who watches on telly essentially — more and more, football is, and I deplore it! — but I really do wonder if the stadiums are filled for the group matches. And not just the Etihad. The Parc des Princes, the Bernabeu, the Nou Camp, the Allianz Arena and elsewhere. I'd be very curious to see the figures over the whole of Europe.
Even on telly. It's anecdotal, and I'm speaking purely for myself, but I simply never watch a group match unless it involves City. Not even tempted. And even then, to my shame, I have to admit that I sometimes miss the occasional group match for City, and find myself catching up with the highlights the next day. Am I alone?
The group games generate important revenue for the smaller clubs, I think. And just generally give them a visibility that they wouldn't otherwise have. I'll admit I had not so much as heard of Viktoria Pilsen (or whatever they're called). That visibility is not a bad thing. But the footballers from the top clubs are playing more and more and more football, and you can see the effects towards the end of the season. I don't want to talk like someone who's saying “Oh we're at the table of the great, now, fuck the minnows”. Shame on any City fan — above all — who gets into that mindset. But it is a consideration as to how much you can ask these top athletes to keep performing in match after match. UEFA and FIFA are expanding their competitions all the time. It's great for the revenue. Is it good for the footballers? Is it even good for the quality of football?

 

[spacecadet]

Do those watching on telly really want to watch Real Madrid thrash let's say some Slovenian side, the Danish champions and maybe the German 4th placed finish in the group games that you can mostly predict the final standings of all of them 2 minutes after the draws are made and before a balls been kicked followed by a last 16 tie against say a Dutch runner up before finally getting to the part of the competition where they can play a liverpool?

If real madrid play liverpool first round, you're still getting the big tie everybody wants. You just don't have to wait until the last 5 games to get to it.

It also allows more potential for these glamour ties to be spread out and have more eyes on them. If bayern vs arsenal was in the second round and not the exact same time as city vs madrid, you're not cannibalising the viewing figures for those so called glamour ties half as much.

My "stupid concept" is the same as the FA cup in that it's an open competition, didn't see much complaining when liverpool drew arsenal in the 3rd round and one of thr favourites went out instantly, FA cup in the whole is a better cup competition thrpughout from start to finish relative to who compete in it compared to the champions league who weight everything towards the last handful of games at thr expense of the entire run until the quarters.

The first paragraph reads like Aston Villa's run to their much boasted 1982 win.

 

[Blue Maverick]

So Real Madrid v Liverpool for example could be a tie in the first round meaning one would get knocked out. What sort of a stupid concept is that? Those who watch on telly want to see the so-called glamour clubs. And UEFA know the Super League will come knocking again if the so-called glamour clubs don't get their own way.

It’s effectively match fixing though, you are almost guaranteed the same teams get through to the knockout because of the seedlings, just so the elite can stay elite, the money stays with the same clubs. Now we have joined that club, I’d much prefer a straight knockout, we will never go back to just the champions of each league but it would be great if everyone just went in the pot two legged knockout, also the ball draws would be quicker.

 

[East Level 2]

To be fair to @ninjamonkey, you could have seeding based on UEFA club coefficient to ensure the “glamour” clubs enter the tournament later (or just have weaker opponents early on).

The large problem with the straight knockout format—for UEFA and historically “big” clubs, at least—is that the group stage generate huge amounts of revenue through the “glamour” teams playing each other multiples times, along with a few potential spoiler underdog clubs, more quickly building rivalries, dramatic narratives, and even controversy, which bring in the viewers and ultimately broadcast and advertising revenue. And all of that is basically guaranteed revenue for participating clubs.

Straight knockout would likely generate less of all of that, and would represent much less guaranteed revenue, which is why they don’t want to go back (and, in all likelihood, City wouldn’t want to, either).

Thank you for stating the obvious. I'd have thought the sarcasm in my post was equally obvious. Guaranteed revenue is what stopped the G14 setting up a breakaway tournament about 30 years ago.

 

[East Level 2]

Do those watching on telly really want to watch Real Madrid thrash let's say some Slovenian side, the Danish champions and maybe the German 4th placed finish in the group games that you can mostly predict the final standings of all of them 2 minutes after the draws are made and before a balls been kicked followed by a last 16 tie against say a Dutch runner up before finally getting to the part of the competition where they can play a liverpool?

If real madrid play liverpool first round, you're still getting the big tie everybody wants. You just don't have to wait until the last 5 games to get to it.

It also allows more potential for these glamour ties to be spread out and have more eyes on them. If bayern vs arsenal was in the second round and not the exact same time as city vs madrid, you're not cannibalising the viewing figures for those so called glamour ties half as much.

My "stupid concept" is the same as the FA cup in that it's an open competition, didn't see much complaining when liverpool drew arsenal in the 3rd round and one of thr favourites went out instantly, FA cup in the whole is a better cup competition thrpughout from start to finish relative to who compete in it compared to the champions league who weight everything towards the last handful of games at thr expense of the entire run until the quarters.

FFS surely the sarcasm was obvious.

 

[East Level 2]

There were two strands in setting up the Champions League to replace the European Cup; multiple clubs from top ranked nations would qualify and there would be a group stage to guarantee at least three home games. Further, the groups would be seeded so there would be more chance of the old G14 clubs progressing.
I neither know nor care about the viewing figures or the attendances in the group games, however the broadcasters have been funding this tournament structure for three decades so it must be worth their while.
I'd love to see a return to a straight knockout with an open draw, certainly from the last thirty-two stage, and having the tournament return to champions only would also be great. However it will never happen as the clubs that control UEFA, and UEFA themselves, make too much money from the current format. The format from next season doesn't address either problem and the CL is expected to make an additional 1 Billion Euros from the new format.

 

[supercity88]

Because it's all about the has-beens staying on the gravy train

Definitely. I've not looked into how they're paying out next season, but surely if you finish in the Top 8 you should be getting more than the clubs who end up in the playoff for the last 16 as they play an extra couple of games and will then get money/coefficient points from those games. The only benefit from finishing in the top 8 is you play 2 more games than under the current system rather than 4. It's too much. And it's not going to add jeopardy. You'll get predominantly Pot 1 teams straight into the Last 16. Then you'll get predominantly Pot 2 and 3 in the playoff.

It's a sad situation where this happens whilst they cut FA Cup replays which were such a bonus for teams down the pyramid.

 

[supercity88]

It’s effectively match fixing though, you are almost guaranteed the same teams get through to the knockout because of the seedlings, just so the elite can stay elite, the money stays with the same clubs. Now we have joined that club, I’d much prefer a straight knockout, we will never go back to just the champions of each league but it would be great if everyone just went in the pot two legged knockout, also the ball draws would be quicker.

Looked back at the Group Stage for this season and the pots.

Pot 1 - 5 knockouts (City, Barca, Napoli, Bayern, PSG), 2 Europa (Benfica, Feyenoord), 1 out (Sevilla)
Pot 2 - 7 knockouts (Real, Inter, Dortmund, Atletico, RB Leipzig, Porto, Arsenal), 1 out (Rags lol)
Pot 3 - 3 knockouts (PSV, Lazio, Copenhagen) 3 Europa (Shakhtar, Milan, Braga), 2 out (RB Salz, Belgrade
Pot 4 - 1 knockout (Real Sociedad), 3 Europa (Young Boys, Galatasary, Lens), 4 out (Celtic, Newc, Union Berlin, Antwerp).

The QFs this year were Barca (Pot 1) v PSG (Pot 1), Dortmund (Pot 2) v Atletico (Pot 2), City (Pot 1) v Real (Pot 2), Arsenal (Pot 2) v Bayern (Pot 1).

Considering Pot 1 features the Europa League winners (went straight out in group) and the winners of the Portuguese and Dutch leagues (dropped to Europa) it's pretty much certain next season we'll see the top 8 featuring a combination of Pot 1 and Pot 2 teams and then the middle 16 that go to the playoff ending up with another 6-8 Pot 1 and Pot 2 teams. You might see the odd Pot 3/4 team sneak through.

But to pretend it's done for entertainment is a joke. Unless you finish in the bottom 8 you have a chance to make the last 16. In fact, to balance the extra games you'd be better off rotating your squad and targeting the easiest games. Win 3 of the 8 and you'll probably be alright. Throw the rest. Then win your playoff against someone shite and job done.

 

[Stephen230]

Looked back at the Group Stage for this season and the pots.

Pot 1 - 5 knockouts (City, Barca, Napoli, Bayern, PSG), 2 Europa (Benfica, Feyenoord), 1 out (Sevilla)
Pot 2 - 7 knockouts (Real, Inter, Dortmund, Atletico, RB Leipzig, Porto, Arsenal), 1 out (Rags lol)
Pot 3 - 3 knockouts (PSV, Lazio, Copenhagen) 3 Europa (Shakhtar, Milan, Braga), 2 out (RB Salz, Belgrade
Pot 4 - 1 knockout (Real Sociedad), 3 Europa (Young Boys, Galatasary, Lens), 4 out (Celtic, Newc, Union Berlin, Antwerp).

The QFs this year were Barca (Pot 1) v PSG (Pot 1), Dortmund (Pot 2) v Atletico (Pot 2), City (Pot 1) v Real (Pot 2), Arsenal (Pot 2) v Bayern (Pot 1).

Considering Pot 1 features the Europa League winners (went straight out in group) and the winners of the Portuguese and Dutch leagues (dropped to Europa) it's pretty much certain next season we'll see the top 8 featuring a combination of Pot 1 and Pot 2 teams and then the middle 16 that go to the playoff ending up with another 6-8 Pot 1 and Pot 2 teams. You might see the odd Pot 3/4 team sneak through.

But to pretend it's done for entertainment is a joke. Unless you finish in the bottom 8 you have a chance to make the last 16. In fact, to balance the extra games you'd be better off rotating your squad and targeting the easiest games. Win 3 of the 8 and you'll probably be alright. Throw the rest. Then win your playoff against someone shite and job done.

Doesn’t always work out this way but the more group games you win, the higher your seeding in the knockout stage and in theory, the easier your passage to the final.

Finish first or second seed for example and you’re guaranteed all second legs to be at home, right through to the final, which I think is a big advantage.