Channel deaths | Four confirmed dead after migrant boat tragically capsizes (p 41)

meltonblue said:
Im not sure I get the point of them not being true refugees? A lot don’t have identification and can’t ask for it in their place of origin, it’s covered in the convention that people may need to use false identification in order to escape and get to the place they want to seek asylum in. To get to the U.K., it’s even costlier for them to get a false passport and visa that will allow them to potentially use safe routes. Even so though, plenty do try and use it too.
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I can see no problem in allowing in people who we are not 100% sure who they are.
 
We should ask the French if we can set up a base in there country where we say will take “X” many people we process them properly! In exchange for any one who com on boats they will take back to go through the same process..
 
inbetween said:
I might be being thick here but why don't they just travel to the UK legally on a plane or ferry?

They sometimes can clearly pay ridiculous amounts to traffickers so it's not like money is the problem. Why don't they fly from Paris to London and then lodge an asylum case upon arrival at the border?

The only reason I can think of is they aren't true refugees and don't bring identification so it's impossible to determine the country of origin but then it's also impossible to travel legally. With no country of origin you can't determine if they're a true refugee and therefore how can you lose an asylum case?
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Airlines are not allowed to let people on a plane without a proper visa, even if they have their passport, and asylum seekers can't claim asylum until they're in the country they want to claim it.

The whole problem is caused by a race to the bottom. Everyone wants to treat asylum seekers like shit and make it ridiculously difficult to claim so that they go to some other country instead. You could easily open a processing centre for UK asylum applications in Calais, but they don't actually want to make it easy or convenient to claim asylum.
 
I'm With Stupid said:
Airlines are not allowed to let people on a plane without a proper visa, even if they have their passport, and asylum seekers can't claim asylum until they're in the country they want to claim it.

The whole problem is caused by a race to the bottom. Everyone wants to treat asylum seekers like shit and make it ridiculously difficult to claim so that they go to some other country instead. You could easily open a processing centre for UK asylum applications in Calais, but they don't actually want to make it easy or convenient to claim asylum.
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Exactly that and that’s how we end up with the U.K. focussing on how to stop them getting here in the first place, giving them even less routes be them safe or not, and asking the French to patrol their entire coastline and the French saying the U.K. needs to change their immigration policies to make it even less welcoming and so people are detracted from trying it in the first place.

Neither is the right answer, the issue is that the damage has been done in terms of the framing of the narrative already in a lot of peoples minds.
 
I'm With Stupid said:
Airlines are not allowed to let people on a plane without a proper visa, even if they have their passport, and asylum seekers can't claim asylum until they're in the country they want to claim it.

The whole problem is caused by a race to the bottom. Everyone wants to treat asylum seekers like shit and make it ridiculously difficult to claim so that they go to some other country instead. You could easily open a processing centre for UK asylum applications in Calais, but they don't actually want to make it easy or convenient to claim asylum.
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Can you not just come on a tourist visa or any visa at all and then lodge asylum once here? I'm pretty sure that the only requirement to lodge a case is to physically be in the UK.

What I'm trying to say is no other country in the world offers safe routes or the ability to lodge asylum cases from another country so why are we unique in this problem? Italy has this problem too but they don't have border posts in every African country?

I don't have a problem with people coming here, I just don't understand why they have to get in a boat. There must be tens of thousands of asylum cases per year and not all of them arrive illegally by boat.
 
inbetween said:
Can you not just come on a tourist visa or any visa at all and then lodge asylum once here? I'm pretty sure that the only requirement to lodge a case is to physically be in the UK.

What I'm trying to say is no other country in the world offers safe routes or the ability to lodge asylum cases from another country so why are we unique in this problem? Italy has this problem too but they don't have border posts in every African country?

I don't have a problem with people coming here, I just don't understand why they have to get in a boat. There must be tens of thousands of asylum cases per year and not all of them arrive illegally by boat.
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People in the developing world can't just get a tourist visa to the UK (or EU). It's a lengthy application process where you have to provide all sorts of evidence that you can afford it and that you have a permanent job to return to. I remember going on holiday to Spain, Italy and France with my Indian friend, and it was a right pain in the arse to sort out. Or saying "let's go to Thailand next week" only to realise that our Russian friend couldn't get a visa on arrival like the rest of us. Being able to just buy a flight and turn up in a country is a privilege that most people in the world don't have.

Every country has the same problem because no country actually wants to process asylum seekers. They all talk a good game while secretly making it as difficult as possible. Hence my race-to-the-bottom comment.
 
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