Channel deaths | Four confirmed dead after migrant boat tragically capsizes (p 41)

[hilts]

Yes we are back to square one, or more like square zero because we've consciously got ourselves into a situation where we can do even less about it than we could have done a year or two ago. We don't have a government that has a clue how to address it, and anyone pretending they have an easy solution doesn't understand the problem.

Stuck with them for a while yet

 

[ganganvince]

Yes we are back to square one, or more like square zero because we've consciously got ourselves into a situation where we can do even less about it than we could have done a year or two ago. We don't have a government that has a clue how to address it, and anyone pretending they have an easy solution doesn't understand the problem.

Regardless of the UK Gov there is no solution that is morally or politically acceptable that we can impose unilaterally. The the issue requires international agreement.

 

[metalblue]

Some will be playing the system. Just not as many as the Govt pretends. A temp visa would work. A system that was transparent, fair and safe. I’d also allow applicants to work.

The temp visa would need to afford largely the same rights as someone who has been approved. Access to legal representation to help with application, benefits, health and education. In my world they’d be free to work and live wherever they want in the country. The only two loss of “rights” I would suggest would be any crime committed (or intent to) should result in them losing the temp visa (following a trial) and that they should be tagged, just so we are able to locate them as and when needed - that to me is a far better outcome for them than putting them in holding centres.

 

[Vic]

Yes. And the people stuck in Calais are the ones wanting to come to the UK. Otherwise they would have stayed in other countries as the vast majority do. And we pay the French to manage the issue on our behalf in Calais and since many applicants will be rejected they then risk the crossing, knowing that once in the UK we cannot return them and that whilst the Govt may have rejected their application, there is a good chance it will be overturned in the courts because the Govt grounds for rejection are often illegal.

So it's our government who are illegals, not the migrants...

 

[Vic]

Some will be playing the system. Just not as many as the Govt pretends. A temp visa would work. A system that was transparent, fair and safe. I’d also allow applicants to work.

Can they drive a bus? Pick fruit? Pluck turkeys? Wait on? Nurse the sick? Lay bricks?

Gissajob.

(Actually, my spell checker wanted to change that to Hussain!)

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

It's the people traffickers who are the real c*nt's in all this. Praying on the most vulnerable people on the planet and turning them into a commodity. You can bet the traffickers got paid for ever single one of those immigrants, despite deaths.

The problem the government has is that to ensure the provision of services (housing, medical, financial, legal) every asylum seeker has to be processed properly. You can't just open the gates and let everyone in; it's bad enough with all the illegal immigrants we already have.

To process a single immigrant you need a caseworker doing numerous background checks which include correct identification, criminal/terrorist database checks, history and medical checks and other checks before they even consider letting that individual into the country. That's often days of work for one single immigrant. Not so bad for small numbers, but multiply that by hundreds per day and you start to see a problem.

And where do you house them whilst they are being processed? It has to be a secure facility because there are potential national security issues to consider. Imagine the public outcry if a single asylum seeker turns out to be part of a terrorist plot? Then you have to consider resources once processed. Where do you house them within the local communities? Do you displace current British residents? Do you bump them up the housing list ahead of people who have been waiting for years? How do we pay for this? Our local authorities are already financially strapped.

On solution that would cut out the need for secure facilities upon arrival would be to allow paperwork to be submitted prior to arrival in the UK, either via British missions/consulates, online or through outreach worker in the camps. That way they can be processed and have resources allocate to them prior to arrival. They may have to wait longer to get here, but at least they could travel the final leg of their journey without having to relay on the people smugglers and potentially death.

 

[BobKowalski]

It's the people traffickers who are the real c*nt's in all this. Praying on the most vulnerable people on the planet and turning them into a commodity. You can bet the traffickers got paid for ever single one of those immigrants, despite deaths.

The problem the government has is that to ensure the provision of services (housing, medical, financial, legal) every asylum seeker has to be processed properly. You can't just open the gates and let everyone in; it's bad enough with all the illegal immigrants we already have.

To process a single immigrant you need a caseworker doing numerous background checks which include correct identification, criminal/terrorist database checks, history and medical checks and other checks before they even consider letting that individual into the country. That's often days of work for one single immigrant. Not so bad for small numbers, but multiply that by hundreds per day and you start to see a problem.

And where do you house them whilst they are being processed? It has to be a secure facility because there are potential national security issues to consider. Imagine the public outcry if a single asylum seeker turns out to be part of a terrorist plot? Then you have to consider resources once processed. Where do you house them within the local communities? Do you displace current British residents? Do you bump them up the housing list ahead of people who have been waiting for years? How do we pay for this? Our local authorities are already financially strapped.

On solution that would cut out the need for secure facilities upon arrival would be to allow paperwork to be submitted prior to arrival in the UK, either via British missions/consulates, online or through outreach worker in the camps. That way they can be processed and have resources allocate to them prior to arrival. They may have to wait longer to get here, but at least they could travel the final leg of their journey without having to relay on the people smugglers and potentially death.

All those entering an EU country seeking refugee status are subjected to a comprehensive assessment of their life in their country of origin. ‘The CEAS is tasked with assessing if an individual is truly eligible for refugee status, or if, for example, they are an economic migrant.‘

They are also issued ID cards and their details put on a shared EU database. As I understand it the UK does not have access to this database. Nor do we issue ID cards which are common in Europe which are two of the attractions for coming to the UK. It is easier to ‘disappear’ here.

The work has already been done by the time they arrive in France.

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

All those entering an EU country seeking refugee status are subjected to a comprehensive assessment of their life in their country of origin. ‘The CEAS is tasked with assessing if an individual is truly eligible for refugee status, or if, for example, they are an economic migrant.‘

They are also issued ID cards and their details put on a shared EU database. As I understand it the UK does not have access to this database. Nor do we issue ID cards which are common in Europe which are two of the attractions for coming to the UK. It is easier to ‘disappear’ here.

The work has already been done by the time they arrive in France.

That's assuming they have been processed prior to getting to Calais. I suspect the ones that want to 'disappear' have not.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

The temp visa would need to afford largely the same rights as someone who has been approved. Access to legal representation to help with application, benefits, health and education. In my world they’d be free to work and live wherever they want in the country. The only two loss of “rights” I would suggest would be any crime committed (or intent to) should result in them losing the temp visa (following a trial) and that they should be tagged, just so we are able to locate them as and when needed - that to me is a far better outcome for them than putting them in holding centres.

Good to see a coherent conversation developing around asylum seekers.

The UK already has legislation in place that allows us to deport immigrants who commit an offence that results in a prison sentence (note sentence not time served) of twelve months or more. (This legislation was introduced by T. May in 2014 IIRC). however like most legislation passed by the Tories , when in power, you can drive a horse and carriage through it.

So, we've seen people deported back to the West Indies , who arrived in the UK as Windrush infants at the age of 2 .. convicted of , such things as a second Drink drive offence ... or drugs offences ... despite never being told or warned about the existence of such legislation and the possible consequences. (even at their first offence hearing)

Its these deportations that are clogging up the courts with the the help of the ''lefty'' lawyers as very often there are breaches of human rights legislation. (thank god that Labour sorted the human rights act out)

If you don't believe that the Conservative Party and its supporters are racist you really need to think again.

 

[Bluemanc100]

No idea how to implement this but why not make the crossing legal (for a certain number by application) but all comers are forced to do a period of time in state operated camps / facilities where these people would do some sort of community service / citizenship where there are specific milestones to build a case for becoming a British Citizen... Language, historical knowledge, service to the community etc. etc....

It's surely an option IF these people are genuinely destitute or looking for safety from persecution