Chelsea Thread 2013/14 (continued)

[Crouchinho]

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2605028/Meet-Andreas-Christensen-18-year-old-Chelsea-defender-20-000-week-never-played-team-wont-time-soon.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... -soon.html</a>

 

[pheradin]

Stoke, Arsenal, Spurs, Fulham, us and pretty much every other game hes played for them.

With the exception of us, you referred to teams with poor midfields.

In the first game against us, he was trying to do a one marking job on Yaya. Yaya could have scored a hattrick. In no instance was the reason Yaya not scoring down to Matic.

Stats over 11 games are meaningless, but you watching one game and deciding he passed is sideways too much makes him useless and holding midfielders in general to be a waste of space. Excellent, good to know.

I have watched him play on numerous occasions. I don't knee jerk. But then neither am I a fanboy type or someone who believes everything SKY tells them.

I think you'll find you are very much alone in your belief that he is a hinderance to the Chelsea team, I think youll struggle to find any Chelsea fans who don't think he is already one of their most important players.

Interesting. I am based in London and know a few Chelsea fans. Some of them do not see the point in him at all. BUt then you must be based in Surrey or SW London as you appear to know the views of Chelsea fans.

He offers no more than Javi Garcia yet you think he is the best in the world.

Better in a holding position than Bender? Godogan? Khedira? Gustavo? Busquets? Alonson? Schweinsteiger? De Rossi? Fernandinho? I could go on. Is he even better than Sandro, Schneiderlin and Barry?

I am simply making the point that I believe he is a limited footballer and not the incredible talent SKY make him out to be. He may turn out to be good but at the moment he does not deserve anywhere near that level of praise.

As a lifelong Chelsea supporter living in South West London and regular blue-moon lurker, I'm going to back up everything BigOscar has said and your ignorance/awful judgement has forced to me to come out of the shadows to actually post something here.

You claim that he gives the ball away way far too often and his passes are mostly sideways? Pardon me but generally if a player is accused of passing sideways all the time it is generally inferred that he favours the easy, safe passes that will not concede possession. You have completely contradicted yourself unless you are making the ludicrous suggestion that he is failing at making the safest passes my pet hamster could make - Thumbs up for stupidity! I'd also like to add that throughout his young career until joining Benfica, Matic was actually played and educated in the number 10 role so this idea that he offers absolutely zilch going forward is unfounded and is backed up by the 4 assists in 11 matches that BigOscar noted earlier. He has a remarkable balance for someone his size and if you actually watch our games (from your posts I seriously doubt you do) you will often see him beat a man or two and set up quick counters.

He is up there with your list of the best holding midfielders currently in Europe and to compare his defensive and shielding qualities to Sandro...well its utterly ridiculous. I'll point a few statistics that sum up how he has really enhanced our defensive game: Since he made his first Chelsea start we have not conceded any goals at home in all competitions. Since he has joined we have conceded 2 or more goals in only two games, one of which he was ineligible and didn't play and one against city in the cup. Compare that statistic to before he joined when we conceded 2 or more goals on six different occasions to teams like West Brom, Stoke and heaven forbid....Sunderland. But then again maybe it is just a massive coincidence and I know nothing.

And finally I'm going to address the funniest part of your post, that your Chelsea mates 'don't see the point in him'. I'm sure they might be sincere in their views but if they are as knowledgeable as you, their opinions are just as valid as Dolly the sheep's views on this matter. Have a gander at cfc-net or theshedend forums if you are really in doubt as to what most Chelsea fans think of our new signing.

 

[supercity88]

Matic still has a lot to prove. I disagree with those who think he is one of the best around. He hasn't got that all round game in his locker to be one of the best around. He has more attacking ability than De Jong, but he isn't going to drive the midfield from that deep role like Fernandinho can and like the top midfielders in Europe can. I think people give too much credit to defensive midfielders at times, Gerrard has dropped back and shown how easy it is. He isn't as quick as he once was but he reads the game, anticipates passes and then drives Liverpool forward with quick and incisive passing. That is exactly what Fernandinho has done for us this season. Garcia is adequate in that position and Matic more so, but they aren't on that level. If Matic was as good as people say, Chelsea wouldn't have lost to Palace or Villa, they counter attacked and had a lot of success. Matic's job is to stop that from happening by supporting his defenders. He will get better, but a lot of the comments on here are over hyping him.

 

[CityFan94]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2605028/Meet-Andreas-Christensen-18-year-old-Chelsea-defender-20-000-week-never-played-team-wont-time-soon.html

£20k a week to an 18 year old they say will never reach their first team.

Unbelievable!

 

[BoyBlue_1985]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2605028/Meet-Andreas-Christensen-18-year-old-Chelsea-defender-20-000-week-never-played-team-wont-time-soon.html

£20k a week to an 18 year old they say will never reach their first team.

Unbelievable!

It doesn't say that at all, in fact in about the 7th paragraph it already says he has been in the first team
£20k a week though is friggin insanity

 

[Manc in London]

You claim that he gives the ball away way far too often and his passes are mostly sideways? Pardon me but generally if a player is accused of passing sideways all the time it is generally inferred that he favours the easy, safe passes that will not concede possession. You have completely contradicted yourself unless you are making the ludicrous suggestion that he is failing at making the safest passes my pet hamster could make - Thumbs up for stupidity!

Good start. In your first paragraph you make a personal insult. A bad start.

I suggest you re-read my posts on Matic and you will clearly see that I say he does not appear to be able to pass the ball forward to a team mate. I did not contradict myself. The misunderstanding is down to you jumping in half-way through a conversation between two other posters and not reading all of the posts.

I'd also like to add that throughout his young career until joining Benfica, Matic was actually played and educated in the number 10 role so this idea that he offers absolutely zilch going forward is unfounded

Micah Richards used to be a midfielder. He would not be good enough to play in our u21 team in that position. Lots of players used to play in other positions when they were younger. Your point does not have...well....have a point.
It is irrelevant.

and is backed up by the 4 assists in 11 matches that BigOscar noted earlier.

No, it is not. The statistics are insignificant.

He has a remarkable balance for someone his size and if you actually watch our games (from your posts I seriously doubt you do) you will often see him beat a man or two and set up quick counters.

I watch pretty much all of your games that are on TV but I do find myself falling asleep during them as you are so mind numbingly boring to watch.

He has beaten a man or two. Bloody hell, sounds amazing.

He is up there with your list of the best holding midfielders currently in Europe and to compare his defensive and shielding qualities to Sandro...well its utterly ridiculous.

I am sure you think you are being balanced but then if you asked who was the best between Matic and Sandro on a Spurs forum, you would be ripped apart. IMO, they are around the same level but Sandro is marginally better. Both are limited footballers, in my opinion. Not poor but simply limited and not deserving (yet) of any ridiculous claims of being 'amazing', 'brilliant', 'top quality' etc..

I don't think he is as good as all those listed, that's why I listed them. If Gundogan suddenly became available (I know he just signed a new contract) and Matic too. Would Matic attract the same level of interest? I doubt it. Gundogan has so much more to his game. To compare them as being on an equal level is quite simply fantasy.

I'll point a few statistics that sum up how he has really enhanced our defensive game: Since he made his first Chelsea start we have not conceded any goals at home in all competitions. Since he has joined we have conceded 2 or more goals in only two games, one of which he was ineligible and didn't play and one against city in the cup. Compare that statistic to before he joined when we conceded 2 or more goals on six different occasions to teams like West Brom, Stoke and heaven forbid....Sunderland. But then again maybe it is just a massive coincidence and I know nothing.

Hamburgers. Pork gets the credit but beef does all of the work.

There are too many variables involved to simply say it is down to one player. How has your scoring record improved since he joined? Were all the players the same every game? Was the opposition the same as other games?

And finally I'm going to address the funniest part of your post, that your Chelsea mates 'don't see the point in him'. I'm sure they might be sincere in their views but if they are as knowledgeable as you, their opinions are just as valid as Dolly the sheep's views on this matter. Have a gander at cfc-net or theshedend forums if you are really in doubt as to what most Chelsea fans think of our new signing.

Shed-End is full of clueless, JCLs who used to support Reading, Southend, the Os, Barnet etc.. If I want an opinion from a Chelea fan, I would ask people I know who are season ticket holders and know what they are talking about. Thanks for the tip though.<br /><br />-- Wed Apr 16, 2014 11:18 am --<br /><br />

I think people give too much credit to defensive midfielders at times.

He will get better, but a lot of the comments on here are over hyping him.

I have the same opinion, for what it is worth ;)

 

[aguero93:20]

Are we still talking about Matic? Over-rated, couldn't get Garcia out of the Benfica team. Benfica rip off Chelsea yet again for a shit player.

 

[shoulderpuff]

I'm not a Chelsea supporter, but I gotta say I'm surprised by a few of these comments.

If Matic was as good as people say, Chelsea wouldn't have lost to Palace or Villa, they counter attacked and had a lot of success. Matic's job is to stop that from happening by supporting his defenders.

So let me get this straight, because Chelsea lost to Palace therefore Matic is not all he's cracked up to be? That's just as absurd as saying Fernandinho must not be a good DM because City lost to the likes of Villa and Sunderland or that Kompany is a shit defender because City's defence has been sub-par. That's an incredibly myopic way of assessing a player's talent.

Gerrard has dropped back and shown how easy it is. He isn't as quick as he once was but he reads the game, anticipates passes and then drives Liverpool forward with quick and incisive passing. That is exactly what Fernandinho has done for us this season. Garcia is adequate in that position and Matic more so, but they aren't on that level.

And that's exactly what Matic does for Chelsea. He's not an aggressive tackler, but rather he's excellent at reading the game, makes a lot of interceptions and upon doing so immediately drives forward. For comparison Fernandinho has 3 assists in 27 games. Matic has 4 assists in 11 starts. Fernandinho makes 1.1 key passes per game, Matic makes 1.2 key passes per game. Also when you compare the two in successful dribbles made, Matic also comes out on top. These arguments about him being one-dimensional are unsubstantiated. Also I think you're giving a lot of credit to Gerrard, defensively he's been somewhat of a liability for Liverpool at times. In the City match on Sunday, one of the reasons why City grew into the game in the 2nd half is because Gerrard couldn't keep pace with Silva and offered the back four little protection.

If Gundogan suddenly became available (I know he just signed a new contract) and Matic too. Would Matic attract the same level of interest? I doubt it. Gundogan has so much more to his game.

Gundagon and Matic do not play in the same position though. Gundagon is more comparable to Yaya Toure, Modric, Schweinsteiger - those are all deep lying playmaker/registas type. Matic is more comparable to Busquets, Javi Martinez, De Rossi etc. Of course you're entitled to your opinion but whether you think so or not, fact is Matic is considered by many pundits to be one of the best holding midfielders. Is he as good as Busquets or De Rossi (at his prime)? Maybe not, but he's definitely up there with the best. I rarely say things like this, but anyone who can sit there and claim that there isn't much between him and Garcia hasn't the slightest clue what they're talking about. Plain and simple.

 

[pheradin]

The reason why the other poster gave up on speaking with you Manc in London is because your arguments are as concrete as a sand castle. You are entitled to your bizarre opinion but please, please, please if you are going to debate about it in a forum you need to be able to justify your arguments. You come up with point after point about why he's not as good as x,y and z but you don't bother using evidence, probably because the evidence you require to substantiate your claims do not exist. Your point that he can't pass forward is just rubbished by using actual EVIDENCE such as this pass map from one of his normal performances in blue: <a class="postlink" href="http://i.imgur.com/qgnr34S.png" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://i.imgur.com/qgnr34S.png</a> . Now you say that Chelsea's markedly improved defence since Christmas is down to so many variables that we can't gauge how much if, atall Matic has improved our defence. Okay. Now you say Tottenham's Sandro is better than Matic at that same position, but obviously the team's shambolic defensive record this season must be attributed to other variables too. Okay. Well how about this, give me ONE example of a Matic defensive screw up this season that has lead to a goal conceded. Oh and to hammer home that point, for every one you give I will give five Sandro screw ups.

I have not heard one negative comment about Matic in my block in the Matthew Harding and I can only assume your friends are a bit daft. But then again this is a forum and you can voice your opinion but when you can't back it up with any evidence and instead use 'I believe....' and 'My mates say...' , you should probably step back and think about whether you are talking Bobbins.

 

[Manc in London]

The reason why the other poster gave up on speaking with you Manc in London is because your arguments are as concrete as a sand castle. You are entitled to your bizarre opinion but please, please, please if you are going to debate about it in a forum you need to be able to justify your arguments. You come up with point after point about why he's not as good as x,y and z but you don't bother using evidence, probably because the evidence you require to substantiate your claims do not exist. Your point that he can't pass forward is just rubbished by using actual EVIDENCE such as this pass map from one of his normal performances in blue: <a class="postlink" href="http://i.imgur.com/qgnr34S.png" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://i.imgur.com/qgnr34S.png</a> .

Are you being serious by presenting that pass map as ‘evidence’? He misplaced 12 passes. Two of those misplaced passes fell to opponents within around 30 metres of the Chelsea goal. Not one ‘key pass’ was made. 16 out of 69 were made in the opponents half, with 6 of them being forward passes. It is difficult to tell from that map how many forward passes he made, while in the opposition half, that were more than 15 yards forward. I would suggest two. Although to be fair he made a handful from his own half into the Spurs half that were 20 yards plus. I believe I remember these and they were when Spurs were down to 10 and trying to thrown the kitchen sink at you.

To add a little context to the figures, Spurs were utter garbage that night, Spurs played a third of the game with 10 men, and in that time, one light in midfield.

Please tell me how these stats impress you? How did his passing contribute to that win? What screams out ‘world class’ in those stats?
Why do I need to provide my own evidence when I can show that he has nowhere near the impact you think he has by using the ‘evidence’ you provide?

Now you say that Chelsea's markedly improved defence since Christmas is down to so many variables that we can't gauge how much if, atall Matic has improved our defence. Okay. Now you say Tottenham's Sandro is better than Matic at that same position, but obviously the team's shambolic defensive record this season must be attributed to other variables too. Okay. Well how about this, give me ONE example of a Matic defensive screw up this season that has lead to a goal conceded. Oh and to hammer home that point, for every one you give I will give five Sandro screw ups.

I didn’t say he was poor defensively. I made the point that he doesn’t bring much to the midfield. Midfield requires more than defensive discipline.
I’d be interested in you flagging up at least 5 mistakes made by Sandro that directly led to a goal in his last 11 PL matches. After all, we should be comparing like with like.

I have not heard one negative comment about Matic in my block in the Matthew Harding and I can only assume your friends are a bit daft. But then again this is a forum and you can voice your opinion but when you can't back it up with any evidence and instead use 'I believe....' and 'My mates say...' , you should probably step back and think about whether you are talking Bobbins.

Bobbins? Are you a faux northerner? Personally, I wouldn’t use it in that context. I would say “X is bobbins”.

I believe a lot of players are overrated, including players who wear sky blue. I don’t need to provide evidence. It’s not as simple as “that misplaced pass against Rovers”. You can see what a player contributes to a team. Chelsea have spent £20m, if the papers are to be believed, on a 25 year old who defends and works hard but whose passing is abject. I would expect to see far more from a footballer who is regarded so highly by the media. But then it is the media who tell that us Cleverley and Smalling are top players.

I suggest you stop being so highly sensitive. You come across as a teenager with a fanboy crush.