Chelsea Thread - 2021/22

[Henri Regnault]

The power dynamic between Roman and Putin is dramatically skewed in Putin's direction. I see no mechanism whatsoever for the sanctions on Roman to result in any pressure of any kind on Putin. The sanctions on the Russian economy certainly but this measure can't be anything less than a good laugh to Vlad.

If we focus just on his Chelsea asset, Roman has put £1.5bn into the club and never taken a penny out. Even that debt is, technically, not owed by Chelsea but by it's parent company Fordstam. There is no money which has ever gone through Chelsea and into Putin's coffers. There is no tap plumbed into Stamford Bridge which Putin could draw from. He's never drawn from it so why should he notice if it's turned off?

The idea behind these sanctions is to create a situation where the oligarchs collectively prefer no war, and are hurting financially. This makes Putin's internal position less secure within Russia, and creates an incentive on his part (however slight) to resolve the conflict. That is "the mechanism" - sanctions on oligarchs hurts Putin's political stability.

This is how sanctions and mediation are wielded by the UN, the goal is to destabilize the hostile regime economically, this creates the gap that negotiations can solve.

 

[Bridgejunky]

The idea behind these sanctions is to create a situation where the oligarchs collectively prefer no war, and are hurting financially. This makes Putin's internal position less secure within Russia, and creates an incentive on his part (however slight) to resolve the conflict. That is "the mechanism" - sanctions on oligarchs hurts Putin's political stability.

This is how sanctions and mediation are wielded by the UN, the goal is to destabilize the hostile regime economically, this creates the gap that negotiations can solve.

This is fantasy talk from the policy setters. It has no basis in reality. In as much as the oligarchs interests lie in Russia, their immediate prospects are in Putin's gift, not the other way around. Witness the fate of those original members of Yeltsin's oligarchs who resisted the transfer of political power to Vlad. What is undermining Putin now is not any hesitancy from the monied class but the unexpected inefficiency of the Russian military.

Had the Russian army completed the expected victory and cleared the stage for the establishment of a puppet government in Kiev, followed by a further transfer of territory from Ukraine, what then? What would the discomfort of the oligarchs add up to when weighed against those gains? The policy of supplying weaponry to Ukraine has slowed down that possibility. The general economic sanctions against Russia are also shaping events but Chelsea fans being barred from buying tickets to watch their team play? Come off it.

 

[Father Paul]

Sanctions shouldn't be viewed as strictly as, say, punitive criminal law.

Ultimately, sanctions are a way for Western countries to create leverage over Putin's regime. Seizing property of his and his acquaintances is important to create a stronger mediation position. In this case, the hook on RA is so strong that he's now touted as a potential mediator.

Whether or not the UK had a subjectively strong case to bring such "harsh" sanctions doesn't really enter into the equation when the goal is to bring Putin to the bargaining table as quickly and as weakly as possible.

Your post makes no sense Henri.

 

[kaz7]

Chelsea fan so read bias into my comments if you feel that's what's going on.

Note I am not saying Roman is in the clear and should not be sanctioned. I can't say that because I do not know it to be true. My problem is that no evidence is being supplied to back up the claims made against him. The accusations against Roman are full of assertions but empty of evidence.

The Panorama program, which I saw being praised above, was a very poor piece of journalism. Examples: -

• Their evidence of links between Roman and Putin was that they were at a party together ten years ago! In any case that there are links doesn't matter. What matters is the nature of any links and whether they amount to Roman corruptly aiding Putin and supporting his war efforts.
• For legal protection the programme mentioned that Evraz denies suppling steel to the Russian armaments industry. They then continued making their point as if the denial is not true. That's fair enough. If they are confident of their information then they are justified in sticking to their guns but they have a responsibility to show how they know that the allegation is true. They didn't even hint at how they know however. It was typical tabloid tactics. Chuck the sensational headlines out there and rely on the fact that people will already have decided what they think before they notice the lack of evidence to backup the headline.
• The program asked us to accept that a 29 year old low level businessman of no repute was the architect of Boris Yeltsin's policy of rigged bidding processes for the sale of Russian state assets. This is obvious nonsense. It is no secret that Ronan paid bribes to acquire his Gazprom shares. This is not unusual, just look what is happening in our own country, but it is illegal. It can be grounds for barring Roman as a club owner but it is not a reason for sanctioning him.

If Roman is guilty of the things alleged then act against him but you have to show your evidence or at the very least explain why the evidence can't be revealed and and convince us that you are not lying. As it is, when MPs are only willing to state their assertions under Parliamentary privilege they surely have to understand why that weakens their position with anyone who is not prepared to simply lap up what they have to say.

Several pics circulating of him and putin together at meetings

 

[LesBleuMiserable]

He’s Russian. Isn’t that enough?

Israeli technically. Irony is Israel is an occupying regime, wiping out a nation. We are happy with them though.

 

[Bridgejunky]

Several pics circulating of him and putin together at meetings

Not the point. I referenced the appallingly weak 'evidence' which was used in the Panorama programme. I did this to illustrate my claim that the programme was a very bad piece of journalism.

 

[feedmpenzaandhewillscore]

Keep saying it, how the fuck did we lose a champions league final to this shite? The amount of money they have spent and they can’t even muster up a title challenge. Tuchel is lucky the club has been taken off Abramovich, he would have been having serious thoughts of sacking him after yesterdays performance.

 

[Blue Mist]

Keep saying it, how the fuck did we lose a champions league final to this shite? The amount of money they have spent and they can’t even muster up a title challenge. Tuchel is lucky the club has been taken off Abramovich, he would have been having serious thoughts of sacking him after yesterdays performance.

We lost because someone had to show the world he was clever.

 

[Vialli98]

Keep saying it, how the fuck did we lose a champions league final to this shite? The amount of money they have spent and they can’t even muster up a title challenge. Tuchel is lucky the club has been taken off Abramovich, he would have been having serious thoughts of sacking him after yesterdays performance.

Pep finished 4th in his first season, did he not? You lost to us in the final because you're not that much better than us and if you're not in absolute form against us, we'll beat you.

Our season was really derailed when drew a bunch of games we should have won during November and December.

Also there is no manager in the world as good as Pep and Klopp. Let's see how City and Liverpool perform when either of you no longer have the best 2 managers in the world. I doubt you'd challenge for the title every season and Liverpool will certainly fall away to be a normal top 4 team without Klopp.

 

[feedmpenzaandhewillscore]

Pep finished 4th in his first season, did he not? You lost to us in the final because you're not that much better than us and if you're not in absolute form against us, we'll beat you.

Our season was really derailed when drew a bunch of games we should have won during November and December.

Also there is no manager in the world as good as Pep and Klopp. Let's see how City and Liverpool perform when either of you no longer have the best 2 managers in the world. I doubt you'd challenge for the title every season and Liverpool will certainly fall away to be a normal top 4 team without Klopp.

Pep finished 3rd in his first season and the club knew the squad he inherited needed a rebuild. The two games Chelsea have played against City this season demonstrates they haven’t really progressed since winning the champions league. They offered zero attacking play in either game, they’ve spent a lot of money in the past few windows and got some very good players in the squad, Tuchel should be getting a better tune out of them. I thought Chelsea would have put a better fight in the league and being this far behind must be frustrating, they keep progressing like this Arsenal could catch them.