China

[Blue Mist]

The way China are lining up alongside Russia, I think that it's more than City that should be thinking about cutting ties with them.

It can't be done over night, but addition to weaning itself off Russian energy, the west should be weaning itself off Chinese investment, manufacturing and imports.

We, as you put it, are not the west.
We are owned by an individual foreign businessman.

 

[Pegasus]

The problem with China apologists though is that they either portray China as some sort of brand new country still finding its feet, or an ancient country, depending on what's convenient for justifying the actions of their government. So when people point out human rights abuses, well they've only been a proper country since the 50s (or 1979, or even the 2000s, depending on when they count it), so they can't possibly be expected to be as advanced as some other countries (despite the likes of Taiwan or South Korea offering a perfect counterpoint to that). But when they want to claim uninhabited islands thousands of miles from their mainland, they make claims based on the fact that a few fishermen settled there hundreds or even thousands of years ago. The idea that China or the UAE are hundreds or even thousands of years behind the West is patronising. What was the Japanese system of government before the end of WW2? Or Taiwan's before the 1980s? Or Korea's decades of alternating military rule and democracy? The reality is that there's not a country on the planet that has had full democracy for more than about 100 years. Plenty of brand new countries have been formed since the CCP took over and managed to create functioning democracies that largely respect human rights. Almost the whole of Eastern Europe, for a start.

The CCP are not oppressive because they fear instability. They are oppressive because they fear losing power. The CCP has delivered economic growth, and that has lifted millions out of poverty. That's why they are able to remain in power and popular, because no matter what could have been, people still feel that difference in their pocket, and perhaps the population fears the instability that a change of government could create (there are as many failed democracies in the region as successful ones - Myanmar and Thailand are two that come to mind that continuously switch in and out of military coups). But it's worth mentioning that neighbouring countries like South Korea and Taiwan have delivered far greater economic prosperity without having to oppress huge swathes of society.

When it comes to people investing in City, as I understand it, it's a private investment fund. And because of the way the country works, it's very difficult to become a successful businessperson without having ties to the communist party, or in many cases, being a member with some influence. That's also the case in many 'democratic' countries, perhaps less formally. So I'm not really sure whether the investment in CFG is problematic just because it happens to be from China. Although in hindsight (or perhaps foresight), rolling out the red carpet to Xi Jinping wasn't exactly the best look.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

When did I mention geography??

Merely pointing out to the original poster that we deal with other countries who are just as bad as the "crimes" he mentioned in China.

You didnt, you said Abu Dhabi was nearly as bad , then posted in big bold letters an article about another country completely, which you said rather bizarrely 'wasn't directly' City's owners, what does that mean not directly.? You seem to be implying they were somehow our owners? They are not, not directly or indirectly? I just found it a really weird analogy. Why pick another bordering middle eastern country which has possibly the worst human rights record in the middle east if not to try and belittle our owners?

As others have pointed out the UK and all other western democratic nations have done and will no doubt continue to trade with Saudi Arabia and China pretty much regardless of their human rights record. I believe sport is a soft target for the human rights campaigners.

 

[willipp]

If you read the post I never said Abu Dhabi was in Saudi Arabia.

It was all about relations. The original poster mentioned why we was involved with China due the atrocities (executions) he mentioned. I was merely pointing out that we deal with other countries that also have atrocities going on.

Got nowt to do with geography!

We are part owned by Chinese investors, we aren't part owned by Saudi investors. Whether our Chinese investors have direct links to the government i don't know, but still not sure what Saudi has to do with it.

 

[Saddleworth2]

at a family bbq early this year I got talking to my daughters best friend who is married to a Chinese guy. She has lived in Hong Kong, China and still goes back to visit his relatives. I asked her who the greatest threat to world peace was between Russia and China. her answer was given in a heartbeat and it wasn't Russia despite what is going on just now. Her view was that they have a great deal more capability and more colonial ambition.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

The problem with China apologists though is that they either portray China as some sort of brand new country still finding its feet, or an ancient country, depending on what's convenient for justifying the actions of their government. So when people point out human rights abuses, well they've only been a proper country since the 50s (or 1979, or even the 2000s, depending on when they count it), so they can't possibly be expected to be as advanced as some other countries (despite the likes of Taiwan or South Korea offering a perfect counterpoint to that).

South Korea you say? https://www.amnesty.org/en/location...st-asia/south-korea/report-korea-republic-of/

South Korea was under a US military administration for three years following the end of World War Two. That's very different to China's history.

And Taiwan was part of China and therefore the Kuomintang were already in power there, post-1945. All that happened was that the republic of China leadership all moved there after the Communist takeover. However it was ruled under martial law until the mid-1970's, when control was gradually loosened. It was an authoritarian and repressive regime for 30 years, which stifled political dissent and imprisoned its opponents.

Comparing South Korea and China is akin to comparing Prince George with some kid off a council estate whose parents are in and out of prison and who rarely bothers with school.

 

[RobMCFC]

What do you mean when you say lining up along side Russia, they haven't supplied any weapons. They aren't lining up alongside them like we are alongside Ukraine.

China haven't condemned what Russia is doing. That's bad enough for me.
Plenty of countries have condemned Russia. What right-minded government wouldn't?

Only this morning I saw an item that reports that Russia and China are aiming to work closely on creating a new world order that isn't dominated by the US and the west. Admittedly, a bit more digging reveals that this may be have been an older new item, but it's believable.

We, as you put it, are not the west.
We are owned by an individual foreign businessman.

Geographically and idealogically, we are the west.

However, I take your point in that we can't do a lot about changing our business models if most of the investment is from China or elsewhere. Maybe we should be thinking carefully about who we allow to invest here?

 

[Blue Llama]

If you read the post I never said Abu Dhabi was in Saudi Arabia.

It was all about relations. The original poster mentioned why we was involved with China due the atrocities (executions) he mentioned. I was merely pointing out that we deal with other countries that also have atrocities going on.

Got nowt to do with geography!

You are just digging a hole for yourself. You made a mistake. You don't need to apologise just stop posting daft stuff to try and justify your mistake.

 

[mexico1970]

You are just digging a hole for yourself. You made a mistake. You don't need to apologise just stop posting daft stuff to try and justify your mistake.

Why should he apologise? He should do what I do and just double down on the nonsense.

 

[FantasyIreland]

Dodgy fuckers.